• military neutrality
  • outlaw extreme nationalism
  • cede Crimea and part of Donbass
  • full Russian withdrawal
  • guarantor countries (🇨🇳🇺🇸🇫🇷🇬🇧🇹🇷) obliged to intervene within 3 days if Russia invades
  • snooggums@midwest.social
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    7 months ago

    cede Crimea and part of Donbass

    full Russian withdrawal

    These contradict each other.

    The whole list is “Let the invader win and blame the victim” so go fuck yourself.

    • Thordros [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      7 months ago

      The places that are primarily ethnic Russian? And voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine in 2014? And then have been subject to an illegal bombing campaign by Ukraine from then until October 2022?

      No investigation, no right to speak.

    • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      7 months ago

      Well the noble defenders are currently in need of more soldiers. Go enlist now if this is the war you think it is. Do you need help finding out how to?

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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      7 months ago

      If you can’t understand that things have gotten far worse for Ukraine in every respect in the past two years, while hundreds of thousands of people died, and millions more had their lives ruined, then kindly take your own advise. It’s incredible how libs love to moralize while the actual tangible outcome of their actions is always nightmarish. This is what happens when people become completely disengaged from reality.

      • snooggums@midwest.social
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        7 months ago

        They didn’t defend themselves strongly enough when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, and Russia then invaded again. Why would letting Russia annex more land do anything other tha encourage them to finish the job they have clearly stated was fully conquering Ukraine?

        You are the one denying reality. Or shilling for Putin more likely.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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          7 months ago

          Russia is literally in the process of fully conquering Ukraine as we speak. What part of that are you struggling to comprehend there?

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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              7 months ago

              You mean the western backed regime in Ukraine that’s kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to fight in a proxy war?

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              You’re failing to separate “Ukraine” the concept of a nation from “Ukraine” the government from “Ukraine” the group of people. In material terms, if life as part of the Russian Federation is comparable to life as an independent Ukraine (and Crimea was doing alright when there wasn’t much fighting), what does a war accomplish? Especially a war that the Ukrainian military was always going to lose. The end result is, as Yogthos said, incredible human suffering without even accomplishing the worthless task of keeping your preferred flag flying.

              Now, I don’t actually agree that Russia wants to annex all of Ukraine. I think they want to break the back of the military and annex as much of Ukraine as votes to join them, but handling the colonial occupation of a country that wants to secede (like Ukraine had been doing with Donbas) is not in its interests. That said, even if they just wanted to take over the whole of Ukraine, a negotiated peace that wins concessions for human welfare would, in every respect, be a superior result to a losing war unless you’re a dog of the west and see damage to Russia as worth throwing generations into a meat grinder.

              Edit: The reason why, to pick an example you probably are inclined towards, it was reasonable to fight desperately against the Nazis is twofold: One, the occupation represented a disastrous change for many, many inhabitants, such that few families would be untouched by the genocide (to say nothing of the national looting). Two, the Nazis were always likely to lose in the end because of their unstable model of operation, with many powerful enemies, meaning that one’s own hopeless personal resistance contributed to the broader anti-Nazi struggle that would indeed come to a successful conclusion.

              I’ve already said in so many words that Russian occupation is unlike Nazi occupation, and Russia does not seem poised to lose as the Nazis were, it’s being careful about who it attacks and when, while continuing to cultivate stable alliances with other countries great and small in the imperial periphery and semi-periphery. The fight of the Ukrainian military both has nothing useful it could accomplish and no prospect of contributing to Russia’s downfall (nor is there much reason Russia should be taken down ahead of the western bloc). It’s pointless.

        • kae@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          Just be aware this poster is often posting pro-Russian, pro-China content. There’s value in other points of view and not being myopic, but if you pay attention to posting trends or look at their history, there is a clear bias and/or agenda.

      • girlfreddy@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Do people not have a right to an opinion? Or are you telling us what and how we should think and believe?

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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          7 months ago

          People have the right to an opinion, and I have the right to point out the obvious idiocy of that opinion. If you have an actual counterpoint to what I said, then feel free to expound on it.

        • kae@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          Just be aware this poster is often posting pro-Russian, pro-China content. There’s value in other points of view and not being myopic, but if you pay attention to posting trends or look at their history, there is a clear bias and/or agenda.

            • kae@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              I agree with you. Disagreement in views isn’t a comment about an individual themselves.

              That doesn’t change a pattern of posting and comments that are distinctly pro-Russian, pro-China.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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                7 months ago

                Please explain to the class why you keep trying to paint posting factual information about the state of the world nefarious.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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            7 months ago

            I love how libs always resort to smearing people instead of engaging with the actual points being made.

            • kae@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              I enjoy how this comment seems to counter what another commenter said about you.

              It’s hardly a smear to point of a bias or perspective you hold. I’m not commenting on you, your politics, or worldview. Just pointing out that others should do their own research.

              But if that is smearing in your perspective, and that makes me a ‘lib’, alright.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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                7 months ago

                It’s very obvious why you made your comment and what you were trying to accomplish with it.

              • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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                7 months ago

                Your repeated comment can serve literally no other purpose than ad hominem. As in, because this poster posts things you claim to be “pro-Russia” and “pro-China” therefore the information the poster posts should be considered suspect.

  • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    Seeing a lot of downvotes on this, so let just say for those who perhaps think focus is some hockus website…

    Alongside Spiegel and Stern, Focus is one of the three most widely circulated German weeklies.

    It is a well regarded German outlet.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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      7 months ago

      It might be a well regarded outlet, but it’s not saying what people want to hear.

    • taladar@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      BILD is also one of the most widely circulated German media outlets, that doesn’t mean that their content isn’t full of nonsense. Circulation says nothing about bias or lack thereof or even quality of journalism.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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        7 months ago

        It’s a respected mainstream publication, if you’re implying there are quality issues with their reporting then please substantiate that.