This is the only reasonable argument, but I know rabid liberals frothing at the mouth over more dead Russians don’t want to see it.

Still, for those who are still reasonable in their goals and ends, and the outcome they actually want to see, there’s only one solution.

The argument on the pro-UA side is that Putin has the “choice” to just up and leave Ukraine at any time. I’ve written before about why he doesn’t – not after all the sanctions, not after all the resources and troops committed. NATO/Europe will not say “alright you’re a good sport mate, we’ll drop the sanctions and pretend this whole thing never happened, deal?”. There’s a “warrant” out for Putin at the ICC, what makes anyone sincerely believe things can go back to where they were before for Russia?

It should hopefully be clear that the people calling for Putin to just “leave Ukraine” know they’re not being reasonable. These are some of the same people who also cheer when Ukraine gets new weapons to kill more Russians with. The goal for this segment is not peace, it’s actually to prolong the war.

I’m addressing the reasonable side, however, who might have been inadvertently taken in by this psyop. I mean, isn’t it weird how NAFO suddenly popped up everywhere and got media coverage? After they’re doing the exact same thing as the Lithuanian elves (because elves fight against orcs) did back in 2014, and it turned out the “elves” were NATO?

Saying Putin can just leave Ukraine is impotent rage. Yeah, sure, I’m just gonna give him a quick call. He really cares what some westerners think about his war, especially now that he has to contend against NATO intervention. I’m sure we can totally convince him he’s being a total nerd if we just yell about it on Twitter.

So if you actually want peace, what’s the reasonable solution?

Organise locally, petition your government to stop sending money and weapons to Ukraine. Organise and protest for a peace deal. I know it’s probably not what you want to hear.

But these weapons prolong the war. Just earlier today I saw a video of an APC full of 8+ Ukrainians get obliterated by a missile strike. Where did they get that APC do you think?

Do you want Ukrainians to stop dying? Me too. The most pragmatic way, the only one towards which we can actually do something, is to protest against our governments sending equipment that prolong this war.

Otherwise you have to realise this war is going to be fought to the last Ukrainian. Do you really think it’s weakening Russia in any lasting capacity? The fighting is happening in Ukraine. Ukraine has been losing population consistently since 1990 (a whole fifth of it lost, mostly, to emigration). What exactly is weakening in Russia? It’s Ukraine that’s being destroyed and will need to be rebuilt. It’s Ukraine that’s losing their population by the thousands. It’s Ukraine that’s shooting depleted uranium bullets on their own soil.

What you’re advocating for, when you advocate to prolong this war, is to kill every last Ukrainian and turn their country into a wasteland. The UA army is even using depleted uranium bullets now (courtesy of US and UK), which have polluted the land when they were used in Iraq. This is backed up by data, right? Depleted uranium has data behind it, it’s not speculation.

The reason the war is being prolonged is because it makes a lot of money to the military-industrial complex. It makes a lot of money to corporations due to the inflation. A blackrock affiliate said on hidden camera recently that when Russia blows up a grain silo, the price of wheat goes up. War is a great business opportunity, always has been. And then when Ukraine will need to be rebuilt, it’ll make Blackrock a lot more money.

But I’m not sure who they will rebuild the country for if there’s no one else left to live in Ukraine.

My solution is the only one that makes sense. Any other is purely impotent and just venting frustrations, not effecting any actual change.

  • Kettlepants@lemm.ee
    240·
    1 year ago

    I’m sure some of them also said “fuck this shit”. But those who today say “fuck this shit” aren’t Nazis either. Your logic is unsound.

    A more specific slogan, such as “heil Hitler” or “death to Jews” would certainly be abhorrent and extremist today, but the usage and implicit meaning of “Ukraine Heroes” has likely changed. The phrase is a clarion call. Context is everything.

    I’m sorry to hear about what occurred in your ancestors’ village. But I’m not sure you can make the leap that people using a multipurpose catchphrase today are of the exact same political persuasion as those who used it 80 or so years ago.

        • Soviet Snake@lemmygrad.ml
          271·
          1 year ago

          The phrase first appeared at the beginning of the 20th century in different variations, when it became popular among Ukrainians during the Ukrainian War of Independence from 1917 to 1921.[1] The response “Glory to the heroes!” first appeared during the Ukrainian War of Independence or later in the 1920s among members of the League of Ukrainian Nationalists.[2] In 1930s it became widespread as a slogan of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN),[3] as well as Ukrainian diaspora groups and refugee communities in the West during the Cold War.

          The League of Ukrainian Nationalists (Ukrainian: Леґія українських націоналістів, romanized: Legiia ukrainskykh natsionalistiv or ЛУН, LUN) was an Ukrainian nationalist organisation created in Poděbrady on 12 November 1925 out of three groups, the Ukrainian National Alliance, the Union of Ukrainian Fascists, and the Union for the Liberation of Ukraine.

          The Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN; Ukrainian: Організація українських націоналістів, romanized: Orhanizatsiya ukrayins’kykh natsionalistiv) was a Ukrainian nationalist organisation established in 1929 in Vienna, uniting the Ukrainian Military Organization with smaller, mainly youth, radical nationalist right-wing groups. The OUN was the largest and one of the most important far-right Ukrainian organizations operating in the interwar period on the territory of the Second Polish Republic.[17][18]

          The OUN was mostly active preceding, during, and immediately after the Second World War. Its ideology has been described as having been influenced by the writings of Dmytro Dontsov, from 1929 by Italian Fascism, and from 1930 by German Nazism.[19][20][21][22][23][24] The Organization pursued a strategy of violence, terrorism, and assassinations with the goal of creating an ethnically homogenous and totalitarian Ukrainian state.[23][25]

          From Wikipedia.

    • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
      28·
      1 year ago

      “Multipurpose catchphrase”???

      That’s what you call a war cry used before the OUN committed some of the most vile warcrimes of the Second World War? You are an absolute ghoul.

      Also you have no goddamn clue what the Schuma or Hewies were do you? “Fuck this shit?” They gleefully committed those exterminations, razing over 600 villages and committing hundreds of thousands of murders and rapes. The Schuma numbered 300,000 ARMED UKRAINIAN MEN ASSISTING THE SS. That’s a lot of people that didn’t say “fuck that shit” huh?

      Also “your logic is unsound”???

      You being a moron and not understanding the concept that phrases and slogans have different meaning in other cultures that aren’t your own isn’t “unsound logic”, that’s you having the worldview narrower then a pinhole. But it’s very easy to be arrogant and ignorant, so I don’t blame you.

      But I promise you that for decades before this war, going to Poland, Belarus, the Baltics, Southern Russia, Romania, or Ukraine and saying “Slava Ukraini” would get the absolute shit beat out of you by anyone in earshot. It is on the same level as “Heil Hitler”.