Hi everyone !
Right now I can’t decide wich one is the most versatile and fit my personal needs, so I’m looking into your personal experience with each one of them, if you mind sharing your experience.
It’s mostly for secure shared volumes containing ebooks and media storage/files on my home network. Adding some security into the mix even tough I actually don’t need it (mostly for learning process).
More precisely how difficult is the NFS configuration with kerberos? Is it actually useful? Never used kerberos and have no idea how it works, so it’s a very much new tech on my side.
I would really apreciate some indepth personal experience and why you would considere one over another !
Thank you !
If you’re going to have any non-linux clients, samba will be an order of magnitude easier. MacOS handles nfs pretty well, but Windows just wants SMB
macOS switched from AFS to samba for file sharing & time machine backups a while ago; it’s been a while since I had first-hand experience setting up a Mac, but based on that fact I’m pretty sure samba is more straightforward to use. … it annoyingly mangles unix file ownership, & permissions though, as mentioned above in https://lemmy.ml/comment/10204431
You don’t have to choose just one though. It’s perfectly ok to share a directory via Samba for Windows clients and share the same directory again with NFS for Linux clients.
Yeah, multi-OS environemment… Thanks for your comment :)
Samba is also generally supported better than NFS on mobile file managers.
Windows can also use NFS, but you have to enable it in the settings.
NFS v4 with krb is probably the best option of these if Linux/macOS is all you need to support because everything just works transparently with one system-wide mount. I had it set up for a couple years until recently (had to basically completely give up on my network setup including the box the KDC was running on for unrelated reasons recently and have still yet to set it up completely again).
Kerberos is pretty straightforward to set up if you know how it works, I think the main problem is lack of documentation and pretty awful NFS error messages (you pretty much have to enable nfsd/rpc debug kernel options if you want to even begin figuring out what’s going wrong when your mount doesn’t work). The first time I set it up it took me a whole day to get it to actually work, and in the end a reboot of the NFS server solved the problem I had.
Look at the Arch wiki article for Kerberos, I think that’s what I used mostly. Feel free to ask if you need help setting it up.
(Unfortunately IMO all of these suck in different ways though: sshfs dies if your SSH connection gets interrupted, NFS v4 (v3 is unusable imo because it doesn’t have idmap so you have to make sure your user IDs match on every machine) isn’t supported by Windows and mobile devices, Samba doesn’t map well to Unix permissions and I can’t tell what its “unix extensions” are actually supposed to do if it isn’t permissions. Integrating Samba with NFS, if you want to use both, also is pretty hard because while Samba theoretically uses Kerberos, it doesn’t work with a normal KDC but needs Samba AD because Microsoft (I haven’t taken a look at Samba AD yet). And forget integrating Samba with anything that isn’t Kerberos-based entirely because NTLM is the only other auth mechanism and it’s pretty much incompatible with anything because the client only sends the password hashed with a unique mechanism. So you’re going to have a pretty bad time if you want to use a single auth mechanism for everything if SMB is involved, and that’s pretty much your only option if you want to access stuff on a mobile device.)
Thank you for your friendly and detailed response !!!
Look at the Arch wiki article for Kerberos, I think that’s what I used mostly. Feel free to ask if you need help setting it up.
It’s always Arch wiki :D. Thank you, but I will probably stay with samba at the moment which will probably fullfil my current needs and seems more complex than I thought ! Also, it’s in a multi-OS environnement (Windows, MacOS, Linux) and NFS seems to not work very well with Windows :/ If I could I would switch my whole family to Linux, but old habits die hard…
Anyway, will keep Kerberos under my radar ! I really want to learn more about it seems very interesting, especially the cybersecurity aspect !
If you don’t mind… Can you tell very briefly what kerberos actually solves in a coporate environnement ? Please, give me a sneek peak of the subject that awaits me :) !!
Thank you, but I will probably stay with samba at the moment which will probably fullfil my current needs and seems more complex than I thought !
Then, take a look at ksmbd which is basically a mini SMB implementation in the kernel. I haven’t used it yet, but apparently it’s more performant and easier to set up.
If you don’t mind… Can you tell very briefly what kerberos actually solves in a coporate environnement ? Please, give me a sneek peak of the subject that awaits me :) !!
It provides single sign-on capability. As I already said Active Directory is built on Kerberos for authentication, but it’s used similarly on Linux, logging in to Kerberos gives you a TGT (ticket-granting ticket) which essentially allows you to also authenticate to other services like NFS, SSH (in which case it can forward your ticket to the machine you log on to), stuff like IMAP, even websites (though as far as I’ve seen you need to do some stupid per-domain manual setup for at least Firefox) without having to enter your password again, at least, until the ticket expires, or storing it anywhere. There’s much more that supports it but I’ve only used it for NFS and I’ve experimented with using it for SSH auth, and only for personal use, so I can’t tell you what exactly.
It’s worth noting that it’s purely for authentication and not authorization, so if you want central permission management, something else will have to do that, such as LDAP which is also what AD uses.
I’ve got both Samba and NFS set up. I’d say Samba is the most versatile, just because more devices are bound to be compatible with it out of the box. I have an app on my phone I can use to connect to it, for example. And it obviously works with Windows machines. NFS is very simple to set up and nice and speedy. But I only use it for a couple permanent shares for specific things between Linux machines. You could always use a mix. I have a directory that’s shared with both.
I’ve never configured Kerberos I think, might’ve tried once in the past. From what I understand it’s a pain to set up and really more useful for enterprise environments. But could be fun to configure if you’re into tinkering with that sort of thing.
Thanks !! Yeah I think I don’t need enterprise grade security :) Not right now I suppose… Do you know what Kerberos actually solves in an Enterprise environnement?
Sshfs afaik is used for a different purpose than the others
I usually use it when I’m working on a remote machine for a long duration and want to use my local tools (so I don’t have to install them on the server, and because using neovim over SSH on a crappy connection sucks)
Wouldn’t you be able to do the same with NFS?
Would you? You can sshfs into anything with ssh, thought you had to set up nfs
Yes you’re right. Did not realize that’s what you meant 😅
Moved to Truenas Scale and decided to setup NFS shares for my Linux server. Spent a lot of time troubleshooting the fstab config and file/share permissions. Switched to CIFS/SAMBA and had it working in about 15 minutes.
Good to know samba works well with truenas. Seeing all the comments, the tendency seems to go in samba’s direction !
It isn’t fast but it is indestructible
i use nfs. always. every minute my computer is online it has a mounted directory from my server.
via nfs and wireguard.
i tried lots of things but nfs which listens on wireguard ip is the best i ever achieved.
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NFS : historically insecure by default. Don’t know about Kerberos making it secure but Kerberos does not look easy to configure.
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sshfs : probably most easy to setup. Can be confusing with ownership and permissions sometimes.
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Samba : solid but has a learning curve, even for a simple setup. For example, for a standalone Samba server omitting the Active Directory part, you need to know that in order to create a Samba user you must first have created a local user with the same username.
https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Setting_up_Samba_as_a_Standalone_Server
sshfs : probably most easy to setup. Can be confusing with ownership and permissions sometimes.
And the worst option if you have Windows clients.
I am wondering if someone can recommend any libre sshfs client for windows7+ preferably that could be installed as a portable app ?
SSHFS is a client not a server. If you want to access SFTP / SSH “shares” from Windows WinSCP and Cyberduck are good options.
Thank you for the hint ! Yeah it’s in a multiOS environement.
Thanks for the link :) I have already setup a samba share (actually I have setup all 3 on my server xD). But Didn’t knew they have a whole tutorial on it :) Thanks for the resource, I think I will stay with samba :) Looks the most versatil and has also “easier” security function setup. I mean I don’t think I need Kerberos in my homelab setup and SSHFS… Yeah people tend to argue it’s a pain in the ass with Windows !
Thanks for the link :) I have already setup a samba share (actually I have setup all 3 on my server xD).
Nice :) With Samba you can also create guest entries without passwords for visitors while having your private files behind your own login. Here an example of guest access : https://std.rocks/gnulinux_samba_no_password.html
And apart from that Samba should be fine for access from MacOS and Windows clients unlike with the ancient NFS, which I expect to be more troublesome to connect especially on Windows, though that is a wild guess.
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The nice thing about Samba is that you can find clients for everything.
NFS is a terrific pain in the ass
I prefer Forza
Honestly I just use SMB with Samba now it’s very fast and secure with the v3 protocol, It gets more complicated if you need AD/LDAP auth but most people don’t especially on a home network.
NFS is too much of a pain in the ass. I would not use sshfs unless you need to connect over the Internet and a VPN isn’t an option available to you.
Other options like SFTP, DAV, emulating S3 aren’t really aiming to fill the same use cases SMB does.
You’ll probbly want samba then. Much easier to set up, including account security.
I personally switched from samba to nfs for my linux iso collection because the overhead was causing lag on my tv box. Books won’t have this issue.
SSHFS will be incredibly slow. I would avoid it personally.
NFS will be performant and is easy to set up. This being said by default NFS is without any security.
The problem is that Kerberos is a huge pain to set up. I would avoid this unless you really need Kerberos.
If you want security NFS + WireGuard will serve you well.
Also I would consider Samba/CIFS if it is for local convenient fine access. It’s not super secure but for me it’s a good trade off.
Is it even possible to use any kind of authentication with NFS other than Kerberos?
As a workaround yes. Just do your NFS exports over WireGuard. WireGuard acts as the authentication and encryption.
I ran SSHFS for a while maybe half a year ago? I quite liked it cause we obviously already use SSH so setup was quick and easy, performance was good too. Then I learnt it’s no longer maintained so switched to NFS.
NFS is good, if you aren’t accessing from Windows I would go for that. Setup is pretty simple too, just change
/etc/exportsand a few permissions or ownerships (after installing the package obviously) then start the systemd service.Can’t comment on Kerberos, but considering NFS popularity I can’t imagine it being difficult.
Then I learnt it’s no longer maintained so switched to NFS.
Ohhh wasn’t aware of that information ! Thank you.
How do I set permissions up with NFS? Do I have to have the same uids and gids on both server and clients?
Yes, if you’re not using Kerberos for authentication.
Thanks!
In my experience, just making sure the directory you’re sharing is owned by
nobody:nogroupis enough.sudo chown -R nobody:nogroup /path/to/nfsOhh, no - you don’t want to do that. Why would you do that?
NFS without kerberos uses the UIDs of the remote users to determine access to files on the server. It’s very insecure since the client systems can use whatever UIDs they want. It’s why NFS has a “squash root” option which blocks any remote system from using UID 0. Kerberos allows users to authenticate so that the server knows who they are on the local system rather than trusting the remote system.
Changing ownership to “nobody” doesn’t give anyone access - it just sets the owner to the “nobody” user. You would need to “chmod” to give read/write permissions.
I’m not an expert with this stuff, I just do whatever works. This works, so I do it and when people ask me or just in general how to do it this is what I tell them. Most of the guides I’ve come across, including one from DigitalOcean, recommends doing this.
Ah - that’s the root-squashing I was mentioning. Root is translated to “nobody” on the server. If you’re not using the root user or if you’ve set “no_root_squash” then you don’t need/want to do that.
That’s making it public, isn’t it?
I think so.
I think that’s what the kerberos is there to solve. I’ve heard that it isn’t that bad to set up. I haven’t tried and just stuck with SMB.
Yeah, I just wanted to have something mounted at boot on my Linux box from my NAS. Looks like it’s possible with SMB, I just need to figure out how to match the users on my machine with the ones on my server.
Follow-up question:
Is anybody really using NFS?
I have found SMB to be sufficient. The network folder in the file browser is really nice. I don’t think NFS has that.
NFS is fantastic from a practical standpoint. You can literally specify it in your fstab to mount the network share at boot.
The best part is, there is no latency in waiting for it to mount. It only tries to fetch data once you request a resource from that mount path. Translation: If your network device is asleep, NFS will wake it up for you and fetch the resource on demand.
I love NFS
You can literally specify it in your fstab to mount the network share at boot.
Uh, the same is possible with any other file system, too.
//nas/share /mnt/whatever smb3 defaults,auto,username=bob,password=xxx 0 0//nas/share. /mnt/smbshared cifs defaults,auto,ver=3,credentials=/some/safe/location 0 0
+2 systemd-network dontknowyet entries (still for fstab Mount options)
Another way ist working with systemd/systemctl and create .mount .automount units
Doesn’t samba block synchronously until mounted?
I’ve never noticed any issues or long delays. My Raspberrys come up either way. Might take a bit longer if the NAS isn’t accessible - but they still come up. Only without the mounted shares, of course.
As an alternative, you could do the same using systemd.
NFS is fantastic from a practical standpoint.
Only if you don’t care about the NAS’es file permission management and have the same uid on all your systems mounting the same shares via NFS. Not sure if it’s different with other NAS implementations, but on my Synology DS415+ all files put on there via NFS get the UID from the source system. Which isn’t the UID of my user on the Synology.
E.g. on my Raspberrys, my user usually is uid 1000 / gid 1000. But on my Synology, my user is uid 1026 / gid 100. So the integrated management tools (e.g. File Station) show mangled permissions as the user with uid 1000 is not known.
And the only real solution to this is to use a Kerberos server - which I think is a bit overkill in a 1 user environment. idmap doesn’t really work on my NAS.
I’m so used to SMB and SSH, especially with the file manager integration. I was wondering if we have something similar with nfs.
file manager integration could be better, I agree
It would also be great if it can work with zeroconf.
Have they done anything about the lack of security? Last I checked, anyone could mount an NFS share and access it as whatever user they wanted, without authentication.
That’s a feature! If you can access that share as rw, you should be able to do anything to it IMO. If it’s hosted read-only, then no matter what privileges you mount it with, the data is still protected
I read/heard that alot of NAS server users tend to use NFS shares :/ Don’t actually know why, but that’s what I found out while reading server/NAS configurations on the web.
Maybe because NFS’s speed compared to samba and SSHFS?
I use SSHFS when I want to quickly grab a file off my server at home.
It is not a permanent solution, but it is fast and SSH is almost never blocked so the network I’m coming from doesn’t matter.
Also SSH is great, if I don’t trust the network I’m on, I tunnel all of my traffic through my home server over a SSH connection (this worked whilst I was in China a few years ago, waiting for my connecting flight).
