• axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    8 months ago

    I’ve never been able to get liberals to admit capitalism killed anyone. They always deflect saying authoritarianism or governments killed people, not capitalism, since they say capitalism is an ideal of treating people fairly or blah blah

    I’ll readily admit communists killed people, and they deserved it. There should be more dead Nazis and landlords. Kill them all.

    • xkyfal18@lemmygrad.ml
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      8 months ago

      Correct. Also, the 100m number is literally fake. IIRC, it can be traced back to that shitty piece of CIA propaganda “the black book of communism”.

      That number factors in deaths that have nothing to do with Socialism, such as:

      • Nazis killed in WW2;

      • People that died of famines that weren’t even caused by Socialism (multiplied by a certain number because they could’ve had children) and old age (comrade grim reaper, Joseph Stalin’s 2nd in command!!!);

      • Soviet Union: Everyone that died due to the famine after the Russian Civil War + those who died during the Siege of Leningrad and during WW2.

      • Execution of Nazi collaborators and chaos instigators;

      • Blatantly making up a few million deaths just to get to the 100 million mark (iirc it was between 5m-15m);

      • China: The few famines that happened throughout the history of the PRC (China used to have famines once every few years for millennia until the Communists took over);

      I’m sure other comrades can give a much more detailed answer, but the 100 million claim is insane (and I’m pretty even historians, Marxist or not, disregard it).

      • olgas_husband@lemmygrad.ml
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        8 months ago

        iirc they put basically every death that happened under socialists countries, even natural causes such as old age that you mentioned, and diseases, and boy oh boy, 100 years of colonization, rural and illiterate china did have a lot of diseases, a lot of people was dying from easily preventable or diseases that were eradicate in capitalist center.

        and as you mentioned, people that never existed in the first place, used a wacky population growth chart for china, that didn’t come to reality, so they counted this as victims too.

        • BakedBeanEnjoyer@hexbear.net
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          8 months ago

          people that never existed in the first place, used a wacky population growth chart for china,

          Yeah, if you executed a nazi not only were they counted as a casualty but also the 4 children, and the 16 grandchildren they would have were counted as well.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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          8 months ago

          The fact they estimate the number of victims of the last famine in China with a wildly wide margin of 15-60 million, with official number being the minimal one already tells you how bullshit that is.

      • Anarcho-Bolshevik@lemmygrad.ml
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        8 months ago

        Don’t forget the White Army! You would think that anticommunists would feel at least a tinge of shame or concern for honoring violent antisemites alongside infants who died from famine, but nope, it doesn’t bother them at all.

        When I was editing Leftypedia, my most popular page was the one responding to the ‘100 million deaths’ meme. Somebody griped about how I did not include a less inaccurate death toll for communism, so I gave that my best shot. That was the worst mistake that I made there. The anticommunists who saw that page ignored everything but the less inflated total that I proposed and they whined about it. Finally I just took it out because they wouldn’t stop missing the point.

        This is my favourite reply:

        Even so, it still raises a very important question: why would any state kill so many people?

        Why would the Nazis kill so many people… oh wait… can we even do that?

        Why not? What is wrong with asking that? Isn’t determining criminals’ motives necessary for, you know, crime prevention? What good is consecrating an atrocity to the point where we aren’t allowed to even speculate on its exact causes?

        Carelessness like that is one of the reasons why I usually don’t bother trying to reason with anticommunists.

        • Omega_Haxors
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          8 months ago

          One of the most important skills is knowing when the person you’re talking to is irredeemable. That point where even if you got through to them and they heard and understood you loud and clear, it wouldn’t matter because they’re genuinely an evil person on the inside. It’s hard to accept but some people can genuinely only be cured with the 82nd element.

          It can be hard to tell, some people really are just deeply sick, but aren’t truly evil. That’s why I always prod for their humanity, even when all evidence shows they don’t have any. You never know… Some people really are in deep, and while I might not be able to save them I can at least plant a seed which will give them a chance to find redemption when they’re ready.

    • Anarcho-Bolshevik@lemmygrad.ml
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      8 months ago

      The Jewish doctrine of Marxism repudiates the aristocratic principle of Nature and substitutes for it the eternal privilege of force and energy, numerical mass and its dead weight. Thus it denies the individual worth of the human personality, impugns the teaching that nationhood and race have a primary significance, and by doing this it takes away the very foundations of human existence and human civilization.

      If the Marxist teaching were to be accepted as the foundation of the life of the universe, it would lead to the disappearance of all order that is conceivable to the human mind. And thus the adoption of such a law would provoke chaos in the structure of the greatest organism that we know, with the result that the inhabitants of this earthly planet would finally disappear.

      Should the Jew, with the aid of his Marxist creed, triumph over the people of the world, his crown will be the funeral wreath of mankind, and this planet will once again follow its orbit through the ether, without any human life on its surface, as it did millions of years ago.

      — Adolf Schicklgruber, Mein Kampf

      • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        8 months ago

        Remove the stuff about the Jewish conspiracy and you more or less get what liberals believe today. Especially the thing about how socialism “denies the individual worth of the human personality” is treated like a common sense truism by even the most well-meaning radlibs.

      • Omega_Haxors
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        8 months ago

        “If you could get liberals to read Mien Kampf, they would realize just how similar their politicians are to Hitler”

  • Omega_Haxors
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    8 months ago

    Never ask a man their wage, never ask a woman their age

    Never ask an anticommunist who the soviets were killing

  • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    8 months ago

    Is there a lib-friendly source for this (preferably a New York Times article, Obama speech, Disney movie or similar)?

  • Mzuark@lemmygrad.ml
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    8 months ago

    It’s funny. Mass death only seems to be a problem when the government wasn’t doing it for profit.