I’ve been so used to judging a post just by its popularity on reddit, but it’s actually so much more useful to have an idea of the downvote ratio. I’m glad we have that here.
It was a scandal when it disappeared from YouTube, but I didn’t realize it was missing from Reddit too for much longer!
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at least Reddit showed the upvote - downvote balance, YouTube only shows upvotes, which is a completely useless number.
Looking at you, beehaw.org
They should at least have a viewed to upvote ratio.
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Yeah, like a close door button on an elevator, or a cross street button on an intersection.
YT doesn’t want your poor little feelings to be hurt.
Part of the reason youTube switched is because both the vote buttons did the same thing. Each one just measured engagement, which is why people always complained about their feeds being swamped with things they didn’t want to see. Essentially serving up videos for people to hate watch, but still watch.
hm. The instance I’m on, lemmy.one, doesn’t have a downvote button or a ratio. Can each server owner configure it to remove that? Maybe I should switch instances! Is there an easy way to export all of my communities and migrate to lemmy.ml?
Yes, servers can disable downvotes. Beehaw does that, for instance. I’m on lemmy.world which allows both. I prefer both because I think it helps silence bad faith participation with less active moderation, but I respect that some places don’t want it.
it also enabled bad faith participation by down-vote brigading.
while that’s true, people will always find a way to be jerks. if people can’t be jerks with a downvote, they’ll express their jerkitude verbally, which is certainly worse. i just wish we could move beyond the point where a downvote (or a bunch) was enough to emotionally devastate a person-- or where people feel the need to do that to others.
this is such a nice place now, but, then again, so was reddit in the beginning.
I’ve elected to hide upvotes in settings, initially as an experiment that stuck because I really didn’t feel like I was missing anything without the counters short of prejudging what I was about to read. The area in the center of the Venn diagram of content that’s relevant to me and content that’s massively upvoted is, well, nonzero. But I’m not exactly going about my life using nonzero chances as my walking stick.
Is there an easy way to check what the “properties” of each instance? Example
- downvote_allowed: true - max_image_size: 500kb - community_allowed: false - no_mail_login: falseunfortunately, “bad faith” is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes I wish to very silently express my disapproval without alerting anyone that there has been disapproval. Everyone finds themselves holding a deeply unpopular/controversial opinion from time to time, bc the universe is a complex place. I see it more as doing my part to “slow the angry mob” when the groupthink starts to get out of control
Yeah, I’m definitely on the fence about it. I agree about the bad faith participation with downvote brigading, but I also feel that having downvotes is, overall, a good way to gauge community agreement.
I think what I would like the most is a visible upvote/downvote percentage ratio. That way you could see not only the net upvotes - downvotes like on reddit, but the actual participation by the community.
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Yes, Lemmy instances can remove the downvote button if they desire
Curious choice indeed, but yeah, instance owners can configure or code whatever they want!
I didn’t find a way to quickly transfer an account between instances like on Mastodon though
Does it really matter if you can migrate Lemmy instances or not? It’s the community that’s important, not the individual users. Karma doesn’t exist, so there’s no benefit to bringing over all your posts. If you care about followers, maybe you should use mastodon.
Enabling downvotes is a server setting so yes,the admin can disable that.
And afaik there’s currently no way to migrate your profile to another server, you’ll have to make a new one.
Everyone feel free to downvote me so you can see it in action
B-b-but… Your karm- Oh wait. Never mind.
I will literally be so upset if lemmy incorporates a karma feature. Such a useless stat that so many people obsessed over.
Idk about anyone else, but the icons are completely/temporarily invisible on my end. I can hit them and they appear though, sometimes.
Edit: Adding a photo
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Even your photo disappeared! Sorcery.
Added a cheeky down vote for you 😉
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its probably my favorite feature of lemmy/kbin
I really like that you can hide scores on posts and comments altogether. I don’t like seeing the upvotes or downvotes. I don’t want to base my opinion on a comment or post on what other people have felt about it, and so just not seeing their reaction to it at all helps prevent that. I don’t think popularity is necessarily a useful factor to consider in judging a post or comment. This is one complaint I have about the Jerboa app right now, is that it doesn’t respect the Hide Scores preference.
Everytime I loomed at my most upvoted comments/submissions on reddit, it would just be populist low effort crap that I wrote.
The meaningful insightful comments that I wrote barely got more than a handful of votes.
The voting system really isn’t that indicative of anything in my opinion, other than how willing we are to lower ourselves to pander to the lowest common denominator.
I absolutely agree … have an upvote!
Snark aside, I do agree, but my time on the microblogging side of the fediverse has habituated me to using “like”/“upvote” as just a nice pleasant gesture to the author of acknowledgement and appreciation. Of course there aren’t any algorithms on the fediverse (yet?), so a “like” can only be a gesture, and it’s actually wonderful.
So I do the same here. If I really think something is problematic, I frown in concern with a downvote. Thinking of it as human gestures to actual people is actually a nice way to interact on social media IMO.
And while pandering will happen, I, as a lurker/reader don’t always want to highest voted comment and often sort by new and old to see other comments. So it really can be about what habits and mentalities we bring to this … a readjustment of which being something the fediverse has to offer.
Complete agreement, it feels like I’m awakening old voting habits from a nicer internet.
I’ve only used lemmy on Jerboa so far, so I didn’t realize that was an option! Hopefully it gets incorporated into the app someday.
Oh shit, we can do that? I’ve been using jeroba so that explains it.
I’m so glad that’s an option. I almost wish it was a default for the instance, because exactly like you said; people base opinions on what others think. And that leaves to hivemind mentality and an echochamber…
If we could have open discussion without being so hostile all the time imagine what the hell people could accomplish.
Indeed, in the User Settings (or replace with your instance), just uncheck the “Show Scores” checkbox. You can still up and downvote things but no scores will show anywhere. It’s nice.
I agree that score is not indicative of the quality of posts. However, it’s useful to measure what people who read this post or comment think of it positively or negatively or neutral.
Sure, but if you can see the score ahead of time (and especially if comments in the UI are sorted by score), all it does it create an echo-chamber. It’s self-reinforcing. If the post’s score only showed after you up/down-voted and then you couldn’t change your vote, that’d be entirely different (not perfect either).
I also don’t care if other people found a post “positive” or “negative” or “neutral” in general. Truthful, well thought-out comments get downvoted into oblivion despite being true, simply because they aren’t mainstream views. Likewise, mainstream views with no basis in reality get upvoted incessantly, probably because humans psychologically like believing that their beliefs are true and seeing “confirmation” of their beliefs is seen as a good thing. This is what is meant by self-reinforcing echo-chamber: fringe or dissenting opinions get hidden, and “more of the same”/“towing the line” conformity get promoted.
all it does it create an echo-chamber. It’s self-reinforcing.
Totally agree. Also, I’m taking into an account that this is a view of people who have internet -> browse lemmy -> browse or subbed to the community (interested in) -> saw the post -> read comments -> default sort (i believe lemmy’s default is hot which is new?) so definitely biased
I also don’t care if other people found a post “positive” or “negative” or “neutral” in general. Truthful, well thought-out comments get downvoted into oblivion despite being true, simply because they aren’t mainstream views. Likewise, mainstream views with no basis in reality get upvoted incessantly, probably because humans psychologically like believing that their beliefs are true and seeing “confirmation” of their beliefs is seen as a good thing. This is what is meant by self-reinforcing echo-chamber: fringe or dissenting opinions get hidden, and “more of the same”/“towing the line” conformity get promoted.
I stated that it’s good to know “what people who read this post or comment think of it” regardless of post/comment truthfulness. It’s useful (for me) to assess whether many people agree with, against, or it’s controversial.
PS: This information wouldn’t change my opinion about a post/comment.
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t understand why you find any value (or usefulness) in seeing what people think of it. What do you learn if a lot of people have agreed with it, disagreed with it, or if the opinion is split?
Well, different post categories indicate different meanings (usefulness).
For example, in political communities, I can get a rough estimate of the majority of users’ views/ideologies regarding a specific topic.
Same, first positive thing I noticed. This really feels like Reddit in the beginning–I like it!
It’s something that can be configured, at least at the server level, which is cool.
I’m running my own personal instance, and I’m keeping downvotes enabled. It’s something that I’d really like to see, personally, but I have absolutely no judgement or concern for instances that choose to disable downvoting.
I do wonder if that’s something that can be managed at the community level, though. I can definitely imagine some communities opting to disable downvoting, if their server admin(s) allowed it.
personal opinion: not having downvote is the same as a participation trophy… pointless and hurts the original idea of “upvoting” (or the winner trrophy) just because a lot of people cannot handle the reality of the world… just sad :(
What I really hope to see is some client-side algorithms that can let you track who vote-voted-for-what. This way, you (your client) could ignore downvotes if you detect brigading or rings and it could boost a particular post if it happened to be upvoted by a friend of yours.
