• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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    12 years ago

    NATO made a promise not to expand eastward after the collapse of USSR. This is a well documented fact that even western media openly admits. This promise has been ignored, and NATO expansion has led to countless wars and instability in the region. The situation in Ukraine is a direct result of the overthrow of the government in a color revolution, and Ukraine failing to abide by Minsk Protocol.

    Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason why Russia would actually want to invade Ukraine. What Russia is rightly concerned about is the fact that NATO has been relentlessly expanding to the east. They’ve now given NATO an ultimatum that it has to roll back and comply with the original security guarantees that were given after USSR dissolved. The threat to Russia is real and should not be understated. NATO being able to put nukes in Ukraine would mean that they could reach Moscow in five minutes. This is a red line for Russia.

    Meanwhile, Russia is achieving its goals without any need to invade anywhere. Europe has absolutely no interest in having a full out war in Ukraine, and it’s also heavily dependent on Russian gas and oil meaning that EU has little appetite to try and sanction Russia. On the other hand, US appears to be pushing for conflict as a distraction from the disastrous domestic policy and because accepting Russian demands would be seen as weakness. This is already driving a serious wedge within NATO. Russia will continue to apply pressure by doing military exercises within its borders, and negotiating with western powers. Germany has already started taking a much more conciliatory stance and sent their foreign minister to Moscow to patch things up.

    Russia invading Ukraine would be counter to their goals as it would actually help unite NATO against them. Anybody peddling this idea doesn’t understand the first thing about geopolitics. Invading Ukraine would be the absolute last resort for Russia.

    • @Thann
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      2 years ago

      This promise has been ignored

      Much like Russia ignored article 5 of the 1991 Minsk agreement when they invaded Donbas and later Crimea

      there is absolutely no reason why Russia would actually want to invade Ukraine.

      Then why did they?

      They’ve now given NATO an ultimatum that it has to roll back and comply with the original security guarantees that were given after USSR dissolved.

      Why would anyone trust Russia to abide by the rules after they’ve so flagrantly broken them? Why does everyone else have to follow the 1991 Minsk agreement when Russia does not?

      Russia is acting like the schoolyard bully who punches you in the face then runs crying to the teacher claiming you punched them. Everything they say is in bad faith.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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        -12 years ago

        Much like Russia ignored article 5 of the 1991 Minsk agreement when they invaded Donbas and later Crimea

        Russia invaded Crimea as a direct response to NATO overthrowing the legitimate government in Ukraine with a color revolution. Meanwhile, people of Donbas and Donetsk want autonomy. Are you denying their right to self determination?

        Then why did they?

        They did not. Crimea has been historically part of Russia, it’s populated by Russians, and it voted in a referendum to rejoin Russia. If Russia wanted to actually invade Ukraine they could’ve done that in 2014.

        Why would anyone trust Russia to abide by the rules after they’ve so flagrantly broken them? Why does everyone else have to follow the 1991 Minsk agreement when Russia does not?

        Russia is not the one that broke the rules, even the LA Times openly admits that it’s NATO that’s been flagrantly breaking the rules. Why are you spreading misinformation here?

        Russia is acting like the schoolyard bully who punches you in the face then runs crying to the teacher claiming you punched them. Everything they say is in bad faith

        This is the single most ignorant thing I’ve read today.

        • @nachtigall@feddit.de
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          2 years ago

          Are you denying their right to self determination?

          What about the right to self determination regarding the Ukraine’s wish to join the NATO?

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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            -22 years ago

            NATO overthrew the government and put an extremist regime in its place. That’s your idea of having self determination?

            • @nachtigall@feddit.de
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              2 years ago

              The removal of the president by an elected parliament and a free election of a new president pretty much covers my idea of self determination.

              Your claims of a NATO backed overthrow on the other hand is not supported by any facts and is unsubstantiated anti-western propaganda.

              EDIT: removed the argumentum ad hominem

        • @Thann
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          32 years ago

          Crimea has been historically part of Russia, it’s populated by Russians, and it voted in a referendum to rejoin Russia.

          Dude, the referendum happened AFTER Russia invaded. Putting a gun to someones head and asking them if they want to die or be a part of Russia, is not a legitimate election!

          Russia is not the one that broke the rules

          You have to understand that invading the Donbas region of Ukraine was a violation of the 1991 Minsk agreement.

          • @gun
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            12 years ago

            Putting a gun to someones head and asking them if they want to die or be a part of Russia, is not a legitimate election!

            Oh, is that what happened?

            • @Thann
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              2 years ago

              That’s how Russia likes to do their own “elections”

            • @poVoq
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              1 year ago

              deleted by creator

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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            -22 years ago

            Dude, the referendum happened AFTER Russia invaded. Putting a gun to someones head and asking them if they want to die or be a part of Russia, is not a legitimate election!

            What part of Crimea is populated by Russians is hard for you to comprehend?

            You have to understand that invading the Donbas region of Ukraine was a violation of the 1991 Minsk agreement.

            Russia didn’t invade Donbas, please stop spreading misinformation.

            • @Thann
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              32 years ago

              please stop spreading misinformation.

              ಠ_ಠ