- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
You must log in or register to comment.
I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s supporting genocide.
And continuing Trump’s immigration policy, crushing unions, building the border wall, etc.
Remember folks this is what he promised us. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
Crushing unions? Didn’t he personally go to a union strike before to show his support?
See this is the problem with liberals. They care more about symbolic support and ignore actual material reality.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/
That’s some first class segregation politics behavior you’re showing there. It’s hard to take you serious from now on.
first class segregation politics behavior you’re showing there.
who the fuck even says this?
who the fuck even says this?
Also funny they said “first class” when they clearly have zero class analysis.
I’ve got a good goddamn guess; it’s eight letters long, starts with a ‘C’, and ends with an ‘rs’.
Someone that just asked a simple question with the intention of being educated, and not to be immediately pushed into some political group the poster looks down on, and where the intention was nothing more but: you bad, we good. That’s just completely ridiculous, without knowing anything about a) my intention and b) my background.
I did appreciate the link that was mentioned
you fuckin called me a segregationist for showing you a link from Biden literally shutting down a strike. Please fuck all the way off.
Biden was literally pro segregation.
Also the link that you “appreciate” contradicts everything you said.
Again and I will continue to repeat this: Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Edit: sorry mods, I can’t be civil with someone trying to gaslight me.
What the fuck are you talking about? You claimed the photo op he did was better than actual support, you were shown how it absolutely wasn’t, and now you’re calling someone a segregationist for…not wanting to vote for a segregationist? Absolute bird brain. No, actually my beautiful bird is much smarter than that.
You’re supporting an actual segregationist who broke a huge strike and calling people who don’t think he’s pro union “segregationists?”
Do you realize how absurd you sound?
Your toxic Biden Bro behavior is going to put Trump in the White House (again).
This is some first class fed posting. Kindly go fuck yourself.
As much as I actually hate to say this because it’s the reality of the US, the support of Israel genociding the Hamas would’ve happened regardless of whomever was President. The US has given a ton of support to Israel in the past and we’re considered good allies with them, so we would have probably let the genocide slide no matter what.
Do you think Trump wouldn’t be for this or something? Or Hillary? Don’t go all “gEnOcIdEr JoE” because you think this would’ve only happened with Biden - this would’ve happened because we are America.
So you’re just going to vote for open fascism this time? Only an evil person votes for the greater evil or allows a greater evil to win.
I dunno man, its either Light Fascism or The End of the USA. It’s a hard call only negated (to me) by being in a fucking red state.
If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.
If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.
You have a lot more faith in voters than I do. If Biden got primaried we’d get the same milquetoast liberal we’ve always gotten.
He’d be younger, at least, as it would almost certainly be Newsom.
I don’t see how he’d be that different from Biden, but he’d be nicer to look at.
He’s not anti-abortion, for one
If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.
I’m sure you have strong evidence of this, with how confident you are?
You mean like when he won the primary against Bernie, even though Bernie was actually more popular? The primary is only part of the picture–the other is the party apparatchik that gets its pick no matter what.
He is getting primaried, technically speaking.
Why is the end of a fascist state a “hard call?”
End of USA as a non-fascist state is what they meant.
“There’s a terrible danger in voting for the lesser of two evils because the parties can set it up that way.” – Hunter S. Thompson
Evil is evil, whether ‘lesser’ or ‘greater’-- and right now? Your guy’s looking to be an equivalent evil to Trump.
I don’t think they said anything about who they’re voting for in 2024, you’re just being an ass.
Plus, their vote only matters if they live in a purple state, otherwise the backwards way the US conducts elections means their vote is worthless.
I live in a blue state. I could vote for Trump and rest assured it doesn’t even matter. I could vote for Mickey Mouse, it doesn’t matter, the state electorate goes Blue. In a way, this makes me lucky, because I don’t have to vote for the sack of worthless crap Biden is.
If you think presidential elections are the ones that matter for an individual to take part in, you’re already disenfranchising yourself better than any gaslighting about Democrats could ever.
Joe’s not good, but not voting for him IS a vote for fascism. Period. Republicans don’t need good opposition to never the less be completely undeserving. Since we LITERALLY CANNOT pick outside of the two choices, you literally have a forced choice between fascism and shitty Democrats.
Buddy, at a presidential level, it doesn’t matter if an individual votes red or blue in VT. It goes Blue. Their impact is utterly irrelevant.
And the DNC will never run a decent candidate with any intent to make fundamental changes to benefit the common person because they can always fall back on the kind of thinking you’re showing here to ensure nothing will change. And they have no motivation to, either. They maintain power just fine by doing the bare minimum of not being quite as repugnant as the Republicans, while still being utter bastards.
Anyway, this kind of attitude is exactly what makes the vote blue no matter who people insufferable fools. Neither I nor the first person you replied to said anything about who their voting for, they simply expressed displeasure with utter dogshit choices we have. Fuck, it seems we even agree that Biden sucks. And yet you lept on them to call em a fascist for not liking Biden.
Another person in this thread said I should be literally crucified for not liking Biden.
It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?
It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?
Honestly it’s giving the same cultist energy that red MAGAts fling around. We were never kidding when we started throwing around BlueMAGA as a perjorative.
Removed by mod
You sound worse than the facists you accuse others of voting for
Have no idea what was said because mod removed it. My experience is that a lot of people are reactionaries who only understand part of any given problem. They get into a huff because they make this ignorance part of their identity.
Removed by mod
I mean you’re talking about crucifying your political opponents, chud
No, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. It’s still her turn!
This is the ultimate troll against liberals and I’m here for it.
Lets fucking Pokemon gooo to the polllllsss!!
You’re a moron.
How many thousands of Palestinian children do our bombs have to murder before you reconsider voting for genocide?
Getting Trump elected will make it worse. There’s no way in hell republicans would have a better policy on Palestine.
Trump is also extremely stupid. A better policy on Palestine is one that fails, and Trump is more likely to fuck this up.
I don’t understand what you’re proposing Trump would do that would fail. Giving Israel more money, weapons and the go-ahead to 100% kill everyone (which is NOT what the Biden admin has done) or shelling Gaza from boats and bombing them ourselves has nothing to do with Trump personally being intelligent. In fact, it’s what he would surely do since he’s a moron.
This is a horrifying viewpoint which is effectively pro-genocide. More genocide, and faster too.
So better to vote in the guy who will make the US fascist, make it worse for its citizens, and most likely bully and potentially cause more death with its huge army in order to possibly maybe potentially help another country by fucking up?
Even if you’re not a US citizen, that’s some insane mental gymnastics to do in order to somehow be braindead about this genocide being Biden’s fault and try to frame it as if nobody else would or could have let this go as far as it has if they were the US President. And if you are a US citizen living in the US, you do realize you would be living in a Trump-run America? Legitimately, are you okay with actually making another country’s situation maybe slightly better at the expense of your own living conditions??
Why do you want Trump to win? Because that’s what you are arguing for here.
This is honestly pretty funny. IDK if you’re trolling with your other messages or not but this one is funny.
You are, of course, free not to vote for him. If you really are a queer communist though, then good fuckin’ luck with what’s in store for you 2024-2028 if Trump wins.
What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.
I want to cast a 9mm ballot every single time there’s an election and all the “left” party wants you to do is vote in their fascist.
Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.
If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!
If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.
America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.
America is an abomination.
Always has been.
Functioning as designed.
Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.
There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.
Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.
It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.
Liked your comment. What is “ML”, though?
Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.
I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.
you are voting for genocide
And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.
deleted by creator
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.
Now tell me, which is worse?
“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”
Like I say: Good luck.
Biden is supporting genocide! No matter who I vote for, Hitler wins.
This isn’t fascism vs social democracy. This is Hitler Lite vs Hitler Delux.
Such a clueless take when Trump is calling for genocide IN THE US.
I will not vote for the lesser of two genocides.
You sound like someone who is hungry but won’t take my food because they want better food.
Why the fuck not?
Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.
I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.
Liberals: “You need to vote for Biden or Trump will kill all the gay communists”
Gay communists: “Don’t vote for genocide Joe, it’s the minimum I expect of you”
Liberals: “I don’t care. If Biden loses I’m not going to be able to go back to brunch”
I won’t vote for genocide just to protect myself.
At some point you have to find something that you value more than your own individual safety.
Ah yes, all those people who will be safer under a Trump presidency. I forgot about them. How careless of me.
I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.
Nope, my argument is the reverse of that. I’m saying we should vote for Biden if the only other possible outcome is Trump.
Do you believe Trump would have handled this conflict any better?
I believe he would have responded roughly the same.
I also believe he would have fumbled the delicate balance Biden is trying to strike, where he has been able to protect and support Israel without provoking a wider conflict. Trump isn’t exactly a strategic statesman. Under Trump, Israel would have found itself facing total isolation from the West and a rapidly escalating conflict with all of its neighbors in the region. Whether that would result in Israel backing down with their tail between their legs or WW3 is hard to say.
I’m not voting for Trump, though. I don’t want either Biden or Trump. I want to kill myself. At least that way my vote counts.
You put down half a thought. So what are you going to do, vote for an actual fascist or not vote so that an actual fascist wins?
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
LOL what a narcissist.
What’s the matter, peckerwood; don’t like you guys’s favorite thought-terminators getting flippantly flung back in your face? Gee, who’d have fucking thought?
Understand, if the choice is between genocidal crypto-fascism and genocidal fascism-obvious, I have no issue with watching your country die instead. Better we go out than the whole rest of the world under our boot. I would rather die, and I would rather we as a collective fell, than ever support another fascist for any fucking reason.
Lemmy needs to allow you to highlight posts made from an account because everything you say is a certified banger.
I don’t tend to let people insult me then attempt to influence me. Learn a little about the art of persuasion and try again. Also, get a grip. This isn’t Facebook or Reddit. Try not to act like those people.
Was it the term “peckerwood” that you found insulting? Would being referred to as “crackkker” hurt your feewings as much?
As a proud Biden supporter, I know two things: 1. 2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises; and 2. If you don’t immediately agree to vote for Biden then you’re just a fucking [slur, slur, slur] and I’m going to go out of my way to antagonize and alienate you and anyone else who may be reading these threads – that’s called the art of persuasion!
Yes. Why are you acting like a Republican?
You have zero self-awareness.
lmao you’re doing the civility lib bit
Like narc-jacketing isn’t a tried and true tactic of redditors. Like this “vote blue no matter who” horseshit you peddle wasn’t hand-crafted by OccupyDemocrats eight years ago. If you don’t sit your hypocritical ass down and get out of my inbox with your settler peckerwoodery… See, you liberal invertebrates miss this little point every single fucking time. You come to people who have NO INTEREST in backing your genocidal-assed party, or even your genocidal-assed nation, really; and then Demand our support. It’s you who owes the ‘persuasion’ in the first place.
And you are failing. Fascism comes to y’alls cute little gated neighborhoods because of you and Everyone who acts like you. I hope I live long enough to watch the settler house of cards collapse on itself. I wonder if you’re even aware enough to realize how hard of a non-starter supporting your party became with the GENOCIDE that Joe decided to full-throatedly back. Like… Do you realize what I see supporting your party as equivalent to anymore with that? Do you even want to know?
This isn’t Facebook or Reddit
Your instance is full of ledditors, where do you get off saying this?
Unearned and unjustified superiority, just like the rest of the settler trash in their party afaic
Bullying works.
Shut the fuck up loser
You’re laughing. You’re a pawn of Trump and Putin and you’re laughing.
By voting for Biden I’m a tool of Trump and Putin. Riiiiight.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Copy pasta. Got it, you’re a troll and are now blocked.
they’re making fun of civility libs who pulled that shit on leftists.
I’m going to write in Hillary it’s her turn
biden is an actual fascist
Keep “Voting Blue No Matter Who” and watch as every promise they ran on vanish without a fight because YOU have taken away any incentive to.
Here’s the thing. There’s a big brigade thing going on right now where I’m apparently the worst human who’s ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question–it’s just “you’re stupid because Biden” and that’s the end of it. So, I’m really asking–what is the proposed alternative action?
If you want an actual answer, the most peaceful possible solution at this juncture is communist revolution.
Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism. The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism
I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.
You’re not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don’t have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.
Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn’t vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?
Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.
Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he’s an isolationist or something, but that’s complete nonsense, he’s the one who murdered Gen Soleimani
I still don’t get what you really want to argue for, though. Is it just to not participate until better candidates come around?
And, having in excess of 15 comments insulting my person in one thread is being brigaded.
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).
I don’t think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn’t enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.
Thanks, that take makes sense. Now I wonder if that is the base from which many are operating?
To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric
This is why I don’t participate in Pride. It’s all corporate bullshit.
fucking libs
They’re both fascists dippy.
Dunno, it’s a year away, why call my shot now when I don’t have all the information yet? But if I voted today and it was Biden v Trump and no competitive 3rd party, it would be an easy blank on the presidential section.
But that’s a hypothetical, we’ll see if Biden aligns more with me in voting day, I can only assume he will double down on trying to seduce disenfranchised Republicans so I’m not hopeful.
You’re right, but if you think Trump would support genocide less, you’re wrong. Trump lives to embrace genocide.
Joe “I’m a Zionist” Biden lives for it too. He’s the crypto facist.
Three reminders:
The president isn’t the only position of power in the US, it’s just the most public and obvious one.
A vote against or withdrawn from Biden is a vote for Trump.
If Biden wins, we can try a new candidate in the next election. If Trump wins there won’t be a next election.
If Biden wins, we can try a new candidate in the next election.
I probably won’t like that one either.
Might as well throw away democracy then, huh?
I mean, I haven’t been happy with democratically elected leaders for my entire life, so I’m used to it by now. I’ve given up hope. It’s actually kinda nice.
I’ve had the same representatives for 37 years. Tell me, when does the democracy start?
Actually yes. If our democracy is so broken that not voting for a piece of shit is considered bad, then anyone who defends it should be banned for life from voting.
What a healthy democracy this is!
Boogeyman invocation, yawn
The hood doesn’t live in democracy; all Trump will do is bring our conditions to your gated communities
A vote against or withdrawn from Biden is a vote for Trump.
And if you think that statement is incorrect, you’re straight up wrong.
If you could prove Duverger’s Law wrong, you’d be famous, but you can’t.
If you don’t vote for biden you aren’t voting for trump. Anyone who claims otherwise should lose the right to vote.
If you think anyone should lose their right to vote, you’re part of the problem. Nobody should have a say in who gets to vote and who doesn’t.
Nah.
“If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”
Fuck Biden. Fuck Trump too, but fuck Biden first and foremost. There will never be a day that I support the genocidal segregationist that thinks he can put delimiters on whether or not I’m Black; especially not after he put half my family in prison with his crime bill horseshit, and is now trying to kill the rest of them with his shit economy.
Death to the Democrats, death to the Republicans, death to the Empire.
You forgot “poor kids are just as bright as white kids”
Just don’t vote for someone funding a genocide
I’m voting Biden
I’m now convinced that a lot of this is trolling. People who say “Well I’m Muslim and it bothers me that Biden supports Israel so I won’t vote for him” have to be completely out of touch with reality or are completely fake. Same thing here–not voting for Biden ensures that Trump wins, and your theoretical third-party person has no chance of doing anything except dilute the vote.
So? I’m really not buying this narrative or these polls anymore. The respondents are either morons or plants.
Liberals, as ever, unable to accept that anybody might honestly disagree with them.
You, as ever, unable to provide a single idea of what the alternative is.
The alternative is that people legitimately disagree with you, genius.
Yet are unwilling to state what that disagreement actually is. You’re definitely a reactionary. You’re here for the angries.
My disagreement is with the idea that people can’t legitimately disagree with liberals, as I have stated. Spare me the insults.
somebody is definitely a reactionary lol
Yeah, the people who don’t want to vote for the fascist sending bombs to an ethnostate to kill their friends and families? They’re the out of touch morons.
One is a neoliberal that embraces a political philosophy where you turn a blind eye to suffering abroad for stability and prosperity at home.
The other is a wannabe dictator that repeatedly echos hitler and will lead to civil war where your neighbors, family, and yourself are put at risk of death and the destruction of your livelyhood.
One of them is more imminently dangerous to the voters who are tasked with casting votes.
He’s not turning a blind eye, he’s actively facilitating a genocide.
Many people are more moral than you and refuse to support anyone supporting a genocide.
“Turning a blind eye” - that guy
“There will absolutely not be any conditions on our aid to Isreal, the only condition is defending isreal” - Biden
Sounds like he’s got his eye pretty squarely on the prize to me
If there were a viable third option I would vote for them. Being moral in this situation means Trump would get elected and my family would be victims of political violence while that same apathetic blind eye turns away from us. It’s a personal threat to my physical safety if Trump is elected.
right, so you care more about you and yours than millions of people in palestine. sounds about white
Yes. It’s not my job to stop all the wars in the world. I’m not going to sacrifice myself for that because it wouldn’t make a difference.
I’m not asking you to be a superhero who ends all war, I’m telling you that when you support Joe Biden you’re actively supporting a current ongoing genocide that he’s facilitating. It’s not that I’m criticizing you for not doing enough for others, I’m criticizing you for actively aiding a genocide. All you have to do is stop doing that.
People who decline to aid and abet a genocide are a better people than people who agree to help aid and abet that genocide.
Motherfucker it’s your job as an alleged human being to at least not actively support it
Oh well shit, better kill millions of others to slightly delay it then. Carry on, my good liberal.
Where’s the prosperity at home, Jack?
Aren’t you a multimillionare capitalist yet?
Do you think Biden doing the same shit as Trump but under the banner of civil rights and progressivism could be deletrious to the goals of those movements here?
Admittedly he did throw $4B at green hydrogen as we fall behind Namibia and Mongolia in green energy production. 😒
If there were a viable third option I would vote for them. Being moral in this situation means Trump would get elected and my family would be victims of political violence while that same apathetic blind eye turns away from us. It’s a personal threat to my physical safety if Trump is elected.
I politically align with Repugnicans by about 2%, Democrats by about 10%. I don’t want either. But I only have 1/300,000,000 shares of power in America to enact my will and it is “i don’t want to be dragged from my home and shot”. And yes, that does mean I am voting in the interest of myself not being dragged from my home and shot while the president actively throws bombs on a warzone where that happens to other people on the other side of the planet. It fucking sucks. But being moral here will result in my fucking death.
Biden isn’t saving anyone. Reactionaries think neoliberal policies being implemented by Biden are communism, they think Lula is communist.
The democratic party is a shambling pile of donors that’s why they need Hillary. They feed off of us.
Biden is worse than Trump, and Trump 2 will ge worse than Biden. Every president is exponentially worse than the last.
This is what an unrepentant settler fascist looks and sounds like.
You think Trump would do better or worse in this situation? Because those are the two options Americans get, as much as it sucks.
Healthy democracy you’ve got here, where people who have real complaints about the parties of capital and genocide are dismissed as “trolls.”
How about “fuck you,” supporting israel in any manner should should be automatic disqualification from any possible democratic process. If you don’t accept that you don’t deserve any of the rights described in the bill of rights.
People who say “Well I’m Muslim and it bothers me that Biden supports Israel so I won’t vote for him” have to be completely out of touch with reality or are completely fake
“If you aren’t voting for me, you’re not Muslim, Jack”
“I cannot conceive of the idea that people can dislike my preferred political choice for any valid reason. Not picking my preferred choice would mean a thing I don’t prefer would happen. Nobody could possibly want that.”
I love that this is how libs are going to deal with their deeply unpopular genocidaire, just pretend he’s actually popular and fine. Real winning strategy there, I hope democracy isn’t on the line.
here–not voting for Biden ensures that Trump wins
Too late – I didn’t vote for Trump so Biden wins
I’m not voting for either which means I’m actually voting for both of them which means I’m legally voting twice.
Why do libs insist on only voting once when they could vote for neither and vote twice. Why are they neglecting their right to vote by only voting half as much as if they didn’t vote for anybody.
Also this argument makes lots of sense.
It would be so sad if, in a democracy, you were able to vote for your ideals instead of voting against fascism isn’t it?
This isn’t a democracy. I’m tired of pretending it is.
If it were even attempting something close to a democracy, we’d have rank choice voting and more direct say in actions.
And most importantly, we would not have UN-elected government positions.
It would be nice if Smurfs walked around singing all day long but that’ll never happen either.
It would be so sad if people saw reality as less than perfect and as a result petulantly made it worse.
I will not be voting for Biden
-
Has anyone done some actual digging to find if the people the reporter talked to are real? Or is this just trying to make Biden’s campaign and prospects at a 2nd term worse than it is?
-
You all do realize polls are ALWAYS going to be skewed going forward since they get their info from people who respond to unknown numbers right? My phone literally filters unknown numbers out so I don’t get them unless it’s ABSOLUTELY important, so I’ll never end up in a poll. For all we know if every American was forced to answer a poll Biden could be much higher in the polls than what news orgs say he is. But they don’t have a poll answered by all ≈330 million Americans. Not to mention polls can change rapidly at any time, something could happen in the months leading to election day that could swing voters more towards Biden.
- I am going off what NBC has reported and let’s be honest, they probably went to HARO* for a lot of it. It doesn’t matter where I got it from I gotta go off the reporting.
- If Biden is really doing bad in internal polling the Dems message will skew towards it being a “vote for freedom” or not so I don’t know. I DON’T KNOW GOD DAMNIT. And that’s what frightens me. We could very much end up voting for Trump, and the only certainty is if he wins, is its over.
* Cision Help a Reporter Out, basically a place where you can pay for “expert perspective” aka supporting viewpoints for your journalism without bothering to do the research
Well the surest way to not vote for Trump is to vote for Biden so… 🤷♂️
-
Ultimately this won’t change unless young Democrats actually take over the party and shift the overton window back to the left.
This generally, and specifically electoral reform is the only way to get the USA out of its two-party hellhole.
That was tried in 2016. The DNC’s got too much of a stranglehold-- they’ll just keep putting up malfeasant, genocidal capitalists. There is no alliance in the Democrat party, young or no. Just like the cops, I believe the Democrats are only good for abolition-- not reform.
The only way out of the 2 party system is to stay in the 2 party system? Math ain’t mathin.
Good luck getting any reform done within America’s FPTP by going 3rd-party.
Politics is a battle of inches, and you need to walk before you can run, or else 3rd-parties are doomed to irrelevance forever.
How many inches have the dems walked backwards? Yeah I’ll vote for moving forward. You do you boo.
A long empty scroll unfurls for 3-4 minutes before fully undoing with the very end being a single phrase saying “don’t do genocide”
Biden hurls the scroll back down the well it came from with a bolded, underlined, and italicized “WE GOTTA FINISH THE JOB, JACK”
Genocide in the middle east
Genocide at homePick one
Honestly, a genocide at home may make people feel a bit empathetic for what happens abroad. But that’s not an optimal outcome for anyone.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“I genuinely could not live with myself if I voted for someone who’s made the decisions that Biden has,” said McKenzie, a 23-year-old working at Starbucks and as a union organizer in Madison, Wisconsin.
“It’s so complicated, because it almost feels like if I were to give my vote for Biden, I will be showing the Democratic Party that what they are putting out is enough, which is the bare minimum in my opinion,” said Camarena, a 24-year-old living outside the Bay Area.
Voters cited a number of policy areas that disappointed them, including insufficient moves to address climate change and Biden’s inability to fully cancel student loan debt or codify Roe v. Wade, as the president deals with a closely divided Congress.
While Biden and Democrats pushed to codify the protections of Roe at the federal level, congressional realities made legislative efforts impossible.
Biden wasn’t Kapp’s first choice as a candidate in the last election, and this year he plans to vote third party if the contest is a Biden-Trump rematch.
“I think that there is a chance” of Biden winning back her support, she said, adding that she expects the president to call for a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war.
The original article contains 1,762 words, the summary contains 202 words. Saved 89%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Well this is one reason why young voters aren’t taken seriously. They don’t vote or basically waste their vote so no reason to pander or even campaign for their votes.
And then they wonder why they’re not a focus hah.
Voting in a rigged system like this where both parties are just slightly different levels of unacceptably terrible is meaningless anyway. Organizing outside it is the only way there’ll be change.
You could do both. You’d hopefully get the less shitty guy to win while hoping that the outside organizing works out.
Has that been working out at all? The “less shitty guy” is a zionist that’s supporting a genocide right now.
Has the organizing been working out at all? Yeah. That’s why you’d do both in the slim chance it works.
And do you think the other guy is any better? Less shit option doesn’t mean a good one. Just less shit.
Has the organizing been working out at all?
People haven’t been doing that at all. Just voting for dems and simping for them as if it’ll change anything - like it’s a football game.
As I said, fo both, no?
Oh joy…. Here come the Biden removed getting upset that younger generation won’t just shut up and vote blue no matter who….
Lol. Give us policy. We will no longer keep voting for the lesser of two evils.
I don’t care if you think not voting for Biden is voting for facism. Voting for Biden is a vote for right of center neoliberal politicians who takes legal bribes from corporations.
A vote for Biden tucking literally means, “Nothing with fundamentally change.” He said it himself.
I don’t care if you think not voting for Biden is voting for facism. Voting for Biden is a vote for right of center neoliberal politicians who takes legal bribes from corporations.
This is the one that’s getting me.
As as one of the younger millennials, I also don’t really like Biden - in truth, the Democratic Party in the US is more akin to center-right than actual left, but it’s waaaaaaay more left than what the other party, the GOP, is. However, the unfortunate and real truth of the US today is that your vote isn’t for who you actually want - nowadays, you’re voting against what you don’t want. A large majority of people (myself included) didn’t even want Biden in office, but we wanted Trump in office less than we wanted Biden. Same with Hillary in 2016 - my vote for Hillary wasn’t for Hillary (full disclosure, I was a Bernie bro), but rather it was for against Trump. To not vote at all is, for all intents and purposes, helping vote in a person who wants to turn America into a corpofascist dictatorship.
Lol. Give us policy. We will no longer keep voting for the lesser of two evils.
There’s a quote that comes to mind from The Witcher series: “Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.” This was said by Geralt when choosing between having to kill a person he knows and sort-of cares about to placate an angry mob, or helping the dickhead wizard out and killing the village, he chose… neither. And he ended up with the literal worst of both worlds by remaining neutral; the person he knew died, and he killed almost the entirety of the village before getting merc’d by a pitchfork and becoming the Butcher of Blaviken.
I bring this up because it’s a perfect example of what not choosing can sometimes be: the greatest evil. Choose what more aligns with your morals and ideas, but recognize that if you do not speak up now for a step towards good because it’s not perfect, then you are part of the evil.
Lol. Give us policy.
Of all the Democratic politicians you could raise this complaint about pretty legitimately, Biden’s not one. This is a pretty good overview of the substantive things he’s done. Obama did a better job of branding his accomplishments, but Biden hasn’t been just fucking off doing nothing.
I don’t care if you think not voting for Biden is voting for facism.
I don’t care if you don’t care. Not voting for Biden is making it more likely that Trump wins, which is, quite literally, fascism. That remains true even if you don’t like it.
Voting for Biden is a vote for right of center neoliberal politicians who takes legal bribes from corporations.
Accurate yes. It’s a goddamned shame, I 100% agree. Letting democracy collapse in the US completely won’t help though. Right? On that we can agree? Maybe not.
Along the same lines, fielding Biden knowing that he is polling quite low against Trump is making it more likely that Trump wins. There are 49 million registered Democrats. There are almost certainly qualified, principled, charismatic people in that group that would both energize the core and appeal to progressives, independents, and swing voters.
If the Democrats’ stubborn pride allows a Trump victory, then we should lay the responsibility at the feet of those who were best positioned to provide a viable candidate who could win.
What’s your percentage definition of “quite low”?
I mean, I do kind of agree with you. Biden’s old and a sort of “acceptable centrist” candidate. I miss Bernie. I’m still voting for Biden, because Trump is the end of the goddamned world.
He’s polling neck and neck with Trump, some polls have him trailing in key states. It’s early, granted, but his support of Israel’s approach to Palestine suggests that many progressives are at best uncomfortable with him.
Primaries are still coming up, no? Why not push for someone better? You still end up in the same place if you’re unsuccessful.
He’s polling neck and neck with Trump
Yeah. Which is nuts when you think about it.
Who would you push for instead of Biden?
The Democrats have a pretty good process going of pushing out any non-pro-establishment candidates, which leaves the field pretty much full of wet towels. Biden is above the average by quite a bit among the wet towels, in my opinion. Who do you see who could replace him? I’m genuinely asking.
Because of electoral college dems need 55% to barely eek by with a win
I’m registered independent so I don’t get a say. I can dig into the options, but last time I might have been onboard with Yang; he seemed sincere. Sanders, though he has issues, would have been a much better choice as well.
If the party elite are blocking meaningful representation within, that’s a problem.
Yeah. Sanders was the most popular politician in America for years after the election. Don’t get me started about it lol. If the argument is “we need someone who’s a realistic candidate in the general election,” they had that on a silver platter, and they stabbed him in the back and threw him in the trash.
If the party elite are blocking meaningful representation within, that’s a problem.
It is, in fact, a massive problem. Let’s keep all the candidates down who people actually like, because the stuff everyone likes tends to be not the favorite thing of all our rich friends. Oh no! Why are we unpopular. Don’t people know we’re better than the Republicans?
Fuckin assholes. I mean, they are better than the Republicans, but ass cancer is better than the Republicans.
I’m old enough to remember when “young people” weren’t going to vote for Obama’s second term because of “drone strikes”.
Voting is a chess move, not a love letter.
Bernie or Bust comes to mind too…
Voting is a chess move, not a love letter.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I feel like people from countries where they just recently got free elections can explain this better. I see all this conversation (entitlement? propaganda? cluelessness? The OP article is definitely in the “propaganda” category) from people who are talking about how not liking something Biden did, translates into deciding not to vote for Biden. To someone coming from some situation where voting is connected to your survival and safety, as opposed to the modern-day US where it’s more like a fashion statement, that seems like just pure careless idiocy.
And, as far as the 2024 election, it is connected to your survival. Usually in the US it’s not. This time it is.
There is a reason that pollsters ask you how you “feel” about a candidate & not who you’re voting for. Can’t spin the latter.
I hear you on the branding point. He has done a terrible job letting people know about the minuscule things he actually has accomplished.
But he has no backbone
What, to you, would be not “miniscule”? I linked a source listing concrete things he’s done in more detail than I really want to retype out here.
Yup and they will always shame the voters they need, the people who are correct, over the failures of the party. They can barely respond to the ridiculous issues the GOP are attracting voters with, they’ll say the issues aren’t relevant, while they lose over them and have nothing to say. Suggest they need to do better and you’re the problem. It’s 2016 all over again, Trump controlling their fears with his insane ramblings, any concerns from the left that the party should do better dismissed and shamed. It’s just so pathetic to see it happening like this again.
Preach it brother
I see the fake-ass “Bernie Bros” have already started up for this election cycle.
I don’t care if you think not voting for Biden is voting for fascism.
Tell me you don’t understand math or game theory without telling me you don’t understand math or game theory.
Give us policy.
Tell me you that you don’t actually follow politics without telling me you don’t actually follow politics.
I feel as though clearing debt for the select few without actually solving the problem is a weak bid anyways. IMO that’s buying votes.
But Bidens been what he needed to be: neutral and boring, with some attempts to break monopolies on the sidelines.
Trump is insane. The mans selling crypto Pokemon cards of himself in jail. The two braincell populace will have him voted in.
But Bidens been what he needed to be: neutral and boring,
So we’re just ignoring his genocidal tendencies? Yeah, y’all ignoring his genocidal tendencies. Can’t wait til that shit comes home to roost for y’all. May the blood you wash your hands in drown you.
