Biden’s numbers among young voters have slid during his presidency from the high margins that helped him beat Trump. Several former supporters explain why.
Someone that just asked a simple question with the intention of being educated, and not to be immediately pushed into some political group the poster looks down on, and where the intention was nothing more but: you bad, we good. That’s just completely ridiculous, without knowing anything about a) my intention and b) my background.
“See this is the problem with liberals…” Doesn’t sound like a first reply from a civil person, to just a simple question I asked, which I asked due to my limited knowledge about current American politics. So you already lost it there.
I didn’t call you a segregationist because of your link. You’re twisting my words in every reply you make. If people like you dominate the political discussions in your country, then I can say for sure that your country has gone down the drain, because all levels of civil conversation have disappeared if you immediately get pushed a label onto you, where the intention is to demonize the person or a group of persons, and any other continuation of the conversation ends in more demonizing and insults. For sure, this is regardless of who’s in power or whether I’m a liberal, left or right. (For the record, I’m consistently more of a centrist in European political terms)
By the way, your insults don’t mean anything to me. They just read like words coming from a frustrated nobody. I clarified myself because I noticed I’m getting mostly downvotes for some posts, and in that way it appears that your hate speech is becoming the truth for some. So I took the liberty to clarify myself and hopefully get around your bullshit.
Anyways, I hope you have a good day and you become happier in life.
What the fuck are you talking about? You claimed the photo op he did was better than actual support, you were shown how it absolutely wasn’t, and now you’re calling someone a segregationist for…not wanting to vote for a segregationist? Absolute bird brain. No, actually my beautiful bird is much smarter than that.
As much as I actually hate to say this because it’s the reality of the US, the support of Israel genociding the Hamas would’ve happened regardless of whomever was President. The US has given a ton of support to Israel in the past and we’re considered good allies with them, so we would have probably let the genocide slide no matter what.
Do you think Trump wouldn’t be for this or something? Or Hillary? Don’t go all “gEnOcIdEr JoE” because you think this would’ve only happened with Biden - this would’ve happened because we are America.
You mean like when he won the primary against Bernie, even though Bernie was actually more popular? The primary is only part of the picture–the other is the party apparatchik that gets its pick no matter what.
I don’t think they said anything about who they’re voting for in 2024, you’re just being an ass.
Plus, their vote only matters if they live in a purple state, otherwise the backwards way the US conducts elections means their vote is worthless.
I live in a blue state. I could vote for Trump and rest assured it doesn’t even matter. I could vote for Mickey Mouse, it doesn’t matter, the state electorate goes Blue. In a way, this makes me lucky, because I don’t have to vote for the sack of worthless crap Biden is.
If you think presidential elections are the ones that matter for an individual to take part in, you’re already disenfranchising yourself better than any gaslighting about Democrats could ever.
Joe’s not good, but not voting for him IS a vote for fascism. Period. Republicans don’t need good opposition to never the less be completely undeserving. Since we LITERALLY CANNOT pick outside of the two choices, you literally have a forced choice between fascism and shitty Democrats.
Buddy, at a presidential level, it doesn’t matter if an individual votes red or blue in VT. It goes Blue. Their impact is utterly irrelevant.
And the DNC will never run a decent candidate with any intent to make fundamental changes to benefit the common person because they can always fall back on the kind of thinking you’re showing here to ensure nothing will change. And they have no motivation to, either. They maintain power just fine by doing the bare minimum of not being quite as repugnant as the Republicans, while still being utter bastards.
Anyway, this kind of attitude is exactly what makes the vote blue no matter who people insufferable fools. Neither I nor the first person you replied to said anything about who their voting for, they simply expressed displeasure with utter dogshit choices we have. Fuck, it seems we even agree that Biden sucks. And yet you lept on them to call em a fascist for not liking Biden.
Another person in this thread said I should be literally crucified for not liking Biden.
It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?
It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?
Honestly it’s giving the same cultist energy that red MAGAts fling around. We were never kidding when we started throwing around BlueMAGA as a perjorative.
Have no idea what was said because mod removed it. My experience is that a lot of people are reactionaries who only understand part of any given problem. They get into a huff because they make this ignorance part of their identity.
I don’t understand what you’re proposing Trump would do that would fail. Giving Israel more money, weapons and the go-ahead to 100% kill everyone (which is NOT what the Biden admin has done) or shelling Gaza from boats and bombing them ourselves has nothing to do with Trump personally being intelligent. In fact, it’s what he would surely do since he’s a moron.
Biden is playing a delicate game where he supports Israel without provoking all of the other countries in that region or alienating allies.
Trump wouldn’t give a shit. That could be disastrous for Israel, because contrary to the propaganda they aren’t actually strong enough to fight everyone everywhere all at once. Not even with Trump’s help. Also, he’s just as likely to get bored or give up on Israel when things get difficult.
So better to vote in the guy who will make the US fascist, make it worse for its citizens, and most likely bully and potentially cause more death with its huge army in order to possibly maybe potentially help another country by fucking up?
Even if you’re not a US citizen, that’s some insane mental gymnastics to do in order to somehow be braindead about this genocide being Biden’s fault and try to frame it as if nobody else would or could have let this go as far as it has if they were the US President. And if you are a US citizen living in the US, you do realize you would be living in a Trump-run America? Legitimately, are you okay with actually making another country’s situation maybe slightly better at the expense of your own living conditions??
You are, of course, free not to vote for him. If you really are a queer communist though, then good fuckin’ luck with what’s in store for you 2024-2028 if Trump wins.
What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.
Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.
If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!
If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.
America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.
Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.
There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.
Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.
It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.
Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.
I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.
Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx.
Because Marx is a racist antisemite whose writing is dripping with speciesism. He was right about one thing and that was his economics, I severely distrust anyone who listens to him for anything other than that, especially not when there’s a treasure trove of other writings.
Really if they called themselves what they are (Scientific Socialists) they would be way more popular among the average American. The reason they don’t is because of the nostalgia of MLs turning one of the biggest shithole countries into a global superpower overnight.
And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.
LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.
“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”
Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.
I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.
I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.
I believe he would have responded roughly the same.
I also believe he would have fumbled the delicate balance Biden is trying to strike, where he has been able to protect and support Israel without provoking a wider conflict. Trump isn’t exactly a strategic statesman. Under Trump, Israel would have found itself facing total isolation from the West and a rapidly escalating conflict with all of its neighbors in the region. Whether that would result in Israel backing down with their tail between their legs or WW3 is hard to say.
I’m not voting for Trump, though. I don’t want either Biden or Trump. I want to kill myself. At least that way my vote counts.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
What’s the matter, peckerwood; don’t like you guys’s favorite thought-terminators getting flippantly flung back in your face? Gee, who’d have fucking thought?
Understand, if the choice is between genocidal crypto-fascism and genocidal fascism-obvious, I have no issue with watching your country die instead. Better we go out than the whole rest of the world under our boot. I would rather die, and I would rather we as a collective fell, than ever support another fascist for any fucking reason.
I don’t tend to let people insult me then attempt to influence me. Learn a little about the art of persuasion and try again. Also, get a grip. This isn’t Facebook or Reddit. Try not to act like those people.
As a proud Biden supporter, I know two things: 1. 2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises; and 2. If you don’t immediately agree to vote for Biden then you’re just a fucking [slur, slur, slur] and I’m going to go out of my way to antagonize and alienate you and anyone else who may be reading these threads – that’s called the art of persuasion!
2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises;
Just like 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, and 2004 before it
Like narc-jacketing isn’t a tried and true tactic of redditors. Like this “vote blue no matter who” horseshit you peddle wasn’t hand-crafted by OccupyDemocrats eight years ago. If you don’t sit your hypocritical ass down and get out of my inbox with your settler peckerwoodery… See, you liberal invertebrates miss this little point every single fucking time. You come to people who have NO INTEREST in backing your genocidal-assed party, or even your genocidal-assed nation, really; and then Demand our support. It’s you who owes the ‘persuasion’ in the first place.
And you are failing. Fascism comes to y’alls cute little gated neighborhoods because of you and Everyone who acts like you. I hope I live long enough to watch the settler house of cards collapse on itself. I wonder if you’re even aware enough to realize how hard of a non-starter supporting your party became with the GENOCIDE that Joe decided to full-throatedly back. Like… Do you realize what I see supporting your party as equivalent to anymore with that? Do you even want to know?
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Here’s the thing. There’s a big brigade thing going on right now where I’m apparently the worst human who’s ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question–it’s just “you’re stupid because Biden” and that’s the end of it. So, I’m really asking–what is the proposed alternative action?
I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.
That’s not true, and it shows that you obviously haven’t investigated those revolutions or the theory behind them.
The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
Yes. This issue is dealt with through communist theory. A revolution is a process. It doesn’t end at a “change of regime.”
Its true that class and money are not immediately abolished, because they can’t be immediately abolished. The abolition of class and momey is a theoretical endpoint of a long period of transition because
The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
More or less as you put it.
You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin
You should investigate the actual revolutions you’re talking about, and read some of the basic theories behind them. If you are still against them, then at lesst you will actually know what you’re talking about, and your critiques would be worth hearing
If you just want power you dont have to pretend to be socialist. See Pinochet, among many examples. Pretending to be socialist would just be unnecessary extra work and having the most powerful countries as enemies instead of friends.
even liberal and conservative historians agree that the damn commies were actual communists: behind closed doors they didn’t talk about machiavellian power grabs - they used the same historical materialist framework they would use in public. (for example Kotkin is adamant about this in his Stalin bio. Communists believed in communism. Shocker.)
You’re not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don’t have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.
Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn’t vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?
Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.
Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he’s an isolationist or something, but that’s complete nonsense, he’s the one who murdered Gen Soleimani
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).
I don’t think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn’t enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.
To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric
Dunno, it’s a year away, why call my shot now when I don’t have all the information yet? But if I voted today and it was Biden v Trump and no competitive 3rd party, it would be an easy blank on the presidential section.
But that’s a hypothetical, we’ll see if Biden aligns more with me in voting day, I can only assume he will double down on trying to seduce disenfranchised Republicans so I’m not hopeful.
I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s supporting genocide.
And continuing Trump’s immigration policy, crushing unions, building the border wall, etc.
Remember folks this is what he promised us. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
Crushing unions? Didn’t he personally go to a union strike before to show his support?
See this is the problem with liberals. They care more about symbolic support and ignore actual material reality.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/
That’s some first class segregation politics behavior you’re showing there. It’s hard to take you serious from now on.
who the fuck even says this?
Also funny they said “first class” when they clearly have zero class analysis.
I’ve got a good goddamn guess; it’s eight letters long, starts with a ‘C’, and ends with an ‘rs’.
Someone that just asked a simple question with the intention of being educated, and not to be immediately pushed into some political group the poster looks down on, and where the intention was nothing more but: you bad, we good. That’s just completely ridiculous, without knowing anything about a) my intention and b) my background.
I did appreciate the link that was mentioned
you fuckin called me a segregationist for showing you a link from Biden literally shutting down a strike. Please fuck all the way off.
Biden was literally pro segregation.
Also the link that you “appreciate” contradicts everything you said.
Again and I will continue to repeat this: Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Edit: sorry mods, I can’t be civil with someone trying to gaslight me.
“See this is the problem with liberals…” Doesn’t sound like a first reply from a civil person, to just a simple question I asked, which I asked due to my limited knowledge about current American politics. So you already lost it there.
I didn’t call you a segregationist because of your link. You’re twisting my words in every reply you make. If people like you dominate the political discussions in your country, then I can say for sure that your country has gone down the drain, because all levels of civil conversation have disappeared if you immediately get pushed a label onto you, where the intention is to demonize the person or a group of persons, and any other continuation of the conversation ends in more demonizing and insults. For sure, this is regardless of who’s in power or whether I’m a liberal, left or right. (For the record, I’m consistently more of a centrist in European political terms)
By the way, your insults don’t mean anything to me. They just read like words coming from a frustrated nobody. I clarified myself because I noticed I’m getting mostly downvotes for some posts, and in that way it appears that your hate speech is becoming the truth for some. So I took the liberty to clarify myself and hopefully get around your bullshit.
Anyways, I hope you have a good day and you become happier in life.
What the fuck are you talking about? You claimed the photo op he did was better than actual support, you were shown how it absolutely wasn’t, and now you’re calling someone a segregationist for…not wanting to vote for a segregationist? Absolute bird brain. No, actually my beautiful bird is much smarter than that.
You’re supporting an actual segregationist who broke a huge strike and calling people who don’t think he’s pro union “segregationists?”
Do you realize how absurd you sound?
Your toxic Biden Bro behavior is going to put Trump in the White House (again).
This is some first class fed posting. Kindly go fuck yourself.
As much as I actually hate to say this because it’s the reality of the US, the support of Israel genociding the Hamas would’ve happened regardless of whomever was President. The US has given a ton of support to Israel in the past and we’re considered good allies with them, so we would have probably let the genocide slide no matter what.
Do you think Trump wouldn’t be for this or something? Or Hillary? Don’t go all “gEnOcIdEr JoE” because you think this would’ve only happened with Biden - this would’ve happened because we are America.
So you’re just going to vote for open fascism this time? Only an evil person votes for the greater evil or allows a greater evil to win.
I dunno man, its either Light Fascism or The End of the USA. It’s a hard call only negated (to me) by being in a fucking red state.
If Biden got Primaried he absolutely would lose.
You have a lot more faith in voters than I do. If Biden got primaried we’d get the same milquetoast liberal we’ve always gotten.
He’d be younger, at least, as it would almost certainly be Newsom.
I don’t see how he’d be that different from Biden, but he’d be nicer to look at.
He’s not anti-abortion, for one
I’m sure you have strong evidence of this, with how confident you are?
You mean like when he won the primary against Bernie, even though Bernie was actually more popular? The primary is only part of the picture–the other is the party apparatchik that gets its pick no matter what.
He is getting primaried, technically speaking.
Why is the end of a fascist state a “hard call?”
End of USA as a non-fascist state is what they meant.
“There’s a terrible danger in voting for the lesser of two evils because the parties can set it up that way.” – Hunter S. Thompson
Evil is evil, whether ‘lesser’ or ‘greater’-- and right now? Your guy’s looking to be an equivalent evil to Trump.
I don’t think they said anything about who they’re voting for in 2024, you’re just being an ass.
Plus, their vote only matters if they live in a purple state, otherwise the backwards way the US conducts elections means their vote is worthless.
I live in a blue state. I could vote for Trump and rest assured it doesn’t even matter. I could vote for Mickey Mouse, it doesn’t matter, the state electorate goes Blue. In a way, this makes me lucky, because I don’t have to vote for the sack of worthless crap Biden is.
If you think presidential elections are the ones that matter for an individual to take part in, you’re already disenfranchising yourself better than any gaslighting about Democrats could ever.
Joe’s not good, but not voting for him IS a vote for fascism. Period. Republicans don’t need good opposition to never the less be completely undeserving. Since we LITERALLY CANNOT pick outside of the two choices, you literally have a forced choice between fascism and shitty Democrats.
Buddy, at a presidential level, it doesn’t matter if an individual votes red or blue in VT. It goes Blue. Their impact is utterly irrelevant.
And the DNC will never run a decent candidate with any intent to make fundamental changes to benefit the common person because they can always fall back on the kind of thinking you’re showing here to ensure nothing will change. And they have no motivation to, either. They maintain power just fine by doing the bare minimum of not being quite as repugnant as the Republicans, while still being utter bastards.
Anyway, this kind of attitude is exactly what makes the vote blue no matter who people insufferable fools. Neither I nor the first person you replied to said anything about who their voting for, they simply expressed displeasure with utter dogshit choices we have. Fuck, it seems we even agree that Biden sucks. And yet you lept on them to call em a fascist for not liking Biden.
Another person in this thread said I should be literally crucified for not liking Biden.
It’s hard to understand why some people might be turned off by that kind of thinking, isn’t it?
Honestly it’s giving the same cultist energy that red MAGAts fling around. We were never kidding when we started throwing around BlueMAGA as a perjorative.
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You sound worse than the facists you accuse others of voting for
Have no idea what was said because mod removed it. My experience is that a lot of people are reactionaries who only understand part of any given problem. They get into a huff because they make this ignorance part of their identity.
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I mean you’re talking about crucifying your political opponents, chud
No, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. It’s still her turn!
This is the ultimate troll against liberals and I’m here for it.
Lets fucking Pokemon gooo to the polllllsss!!
You’re a moron.
How many thousands of Palestinian children do our bombs have to murder before you reconsider voting for genocide?
Getting Trump elected will make it worse. There’s no way in hell republicans would have a better policy on Palestine.
Trump is also extremely stupid. A better policy on Palestine is one that fails, and Trump is more likely to fuck this up.
I don’t understand what you’re proposing Trump would do that would fail. Giving Israel more money, weapons and the go-ahead to 100% kill everyone (which is NOT what the Biden admin has done) or shelling Gaza from boats and bombing them ourselves has nothing to do with Trump personally being intelligent. In fact, it’s what he would surely do since he’s a moron.
Biden is playing a delicate game where he supports Israel without provoking all of the other countries in that region or alienating allies.
Trump wouldn’t give a shit. That could be disastrous for Israel, because contrary to the propaganda they aren’t actually strong enough to fight everyone everywhere all at once. Not even with Trump’s help. Also, he’s just as likely to get bored or give up on Israel when things get difficult.
This is a horrifying viewpoint which is effectively pro-genocide. More genocide, and faster too.
So better to vote in the guy who will make the US fascist, make it worse for its citizens, and most likely bully and potentially cause more death with its huge army in order to possibly maybe potentially help another country by fucking up?
Even if you’re not a US citizen, that’s some insane mental gymnastics to do in order to somehow be braindead about this genocide being Biden’s fault and try to frame it as if nobody else would or could have let this go as far as it has if they were the US President. And if you are a US citizen living in the US, you do realize you would be living in a Trump-run America? Legitimately, are you okay with actually making another country’s situation maybe slightly better at the expense of your own living conditions??
Why do you want Trump to win? Because that’s what you are arguing for here.
This is honestly pretty funny. IDK if you’re trolling with your other messages or not but this one is funny.
You are, of course, free not to vote for him. If you really are a queer communist though, then good fuckin’ luck with what’s in store for you 2024-2028 if Trump wins.
What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.
I want to cast a 9mm ballot every single time there’s an election and all the “left” party wants you to do is vote in their fascist.
Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.
If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!
If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.
America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.
Always has been.
Functioning as designed.
Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.
There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.
Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.
It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.
Liked your comment. What is “ML”, though?
Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.
I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.
Because Marx is a racist antisemite whose writing is dripping with speciesism. He was right about one thing and that was his economics, I severely distrust anyone who listens to him for anything other than that, especially not when there’s a treasure trove of other writings.
Really if they called themselves what they are (Scientific Socialists) they would be way more popular among the average American. The reason they don’t is because of the nostalgia of MLs turning one of the biggest shithole countries into a global superpower overnight.
OH lol I am actually on the ML lemmy too and didn’t realize what it was. Thanks for the education.
And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.
deleted by creator
LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.
Now tell me, which is worse?
“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”
Like I say: Good luck.
Biden is supporting genocide! No matter who I vote for, Hitler wins.
This isn’t fascism vs social democracy. This is Hitler Lite vs Hitler Delux.
Such a clueless take when Trump is calling for genocide IN THE US.
I will not vote for the lesser of two genocides.
You sound like someone who is hungry but won’t take my food because they want better food.
More accurately, someone who doesn’t want other hungry people (in addition to herself) to have any food because she wants better food.
Why the fuck not?
When you vote for the lesser of two genocides, you are voting for genocide. You can’t escape that.
Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.
I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.
Liberals: “You need to vote for Biden or Trump will kill all the gay communists”
Gay communists: “Don’t vote for genocide Joe, it’s the minimum I expect of you”
Liberals: “I don’t care. If Biden loses I’m not going to be able to go back to brunch”
I won’t vote for genocide just to protect myself.
At some point you have to find something that you value more than your own individual safety.
Ah yes, all those people who will be safer under a Trump presidency. I forgot about them. How careless of me.
The genocide in Gaza is going to continue regardless of which candidate wins. I understand that.
But if I vote for Biden, I am voting for genocide. I won’t do that just because it might be personally better for me if Biden wins.
(might be personally better for me - who fucking knows what the Supreme Court might decide in the next 4 years)
And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.
Nope, my argument is the reverse of that. I’m saying we should vote for Biden if the only other possible outcome is Trump.
Do you believe Trump would have handled this conflict any better?
I believe he would have responded roughly the same.
I also believe he would have fumbled the delicate balance Biden is trying to strike, where he has been able to protect and support Israel without provoking a wider conflict. Trump isn’t exactly a strategic statesman. Under Trump, Israel would have found itself facing total isolation from the West and a rapidly escalating conflict with all of its neighbors in the region. Whether that would result in Israel backing down with their tail between their legs or WW3 is hard to say.
I’m not voting for Trump, though. I don’t want either Biden or Trump. I want to kill myself. At least that way my vote counts.
You’re right, but if you think Trump would support genocide less, you’re wrong. Trump lives to embrace genocide.
Joe “I’m a Zionist” Biden lives for it too. He’s the crypto facist.
You put down half a thought. So what are you going to do, vote for an actual fascist or not vote so that an actual fascist wins?
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
LOL what a narcissist.
What’s the matter, peckerwood; don’t like you guys’s favorite thought-terminators getting flippantly flung back in your face? Gee, who’d have fucking thought?
Understand, if the choice is between genocidal crypto-fascism and genocidal fascism-obvious, I have no issue with watching your country die instead. Better we go out than the whole rest of the world under our boot. I would rather die, and I would rather we as a collective fell, than ever support another fascist for any fucking reason.
Lemmy needs to allow you to highlight posts made from an account because everything you say is a certified banger.
I don’t tend to let people insult me then attempt to influence me. Learn a little about the art of persuasion and try again. Also, get a grip. This isn’t Facebook or Reddit. Try not to act like those people.
Was it the term “peckerwood” that you found insulting? Would being referred to as “crackkker” hurt your feewings as much?
As a proud Biden supporter, I know two things: 1. 2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises; and 2. If you don’t immediately agree to vote for Biden then you’re just a fucking [slur, slur, slur] and I’m going to go out of my way to antagonize and alienate you and anyone else who may be reading these threads – that’s called the art of persuasion!
Just like 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, and 2004 before it
Yes. Why are you acting like a Republican?
Conservatism isnt “when you are rude”.
You have zero self-awareness.
lmao you’re doing the civility lib bit
Like narc-jacketing isn’t a tried and true tactic of redditors. Like this “vote blue no matter who” horseshit you peddle wasn’t hand-crafted by OccupyDemocrats eight years ago. If you don’t sit your hypocritical ass down and get out of my inbox with your settler peckerwoodery… See, you liberal invertebrates miss this little point every single fucking time. You come to people who have NO INTEREST in backing your genocidal-assed party, or even your genocidal-assed nation, really; and then Demand our support. It’s you who owes the ‘persuasion’ in the first place.
And you are failing. Fascism comes to y’alls cute little gated neighborhoods because of you and Everyone who acts like you. I hope I live long enough to watch the settler house of cards collapse on itself. I wonder if you’re even aware enough to realize how hard of a non-starter supporting your party became with the GENOCIDE that Joe decided to full-throatedly back. Like… Do you realize what I see supporting your party as equivalent to anymore with that? Do you even want to know?
Your instance is full of ledditors, where do you get off saying this?
Unearned and unjustified superiority, just like the rest of the settler trash in their party afaic
Bullying works.
Shut the fuck up loser
You’re laughing. You’re a pawn of Trump and Putin and you’re laughing.
By voting for Biden I’m a tool of Trump and Putin. Riiiiight.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Copy pasta. Got it, you’re a troll and are now blocked.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won’t because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they’ve even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Hes fired
they’re making fun of civility libs who pulled that shit on leftists.
I’m going to write in Hillary it’s her turn
biden is an actual fascist
Keep “Voting Blue No Matter Who” and watch as every promise they ran on vanish without a fight because YOU have taken away any incentive to.
Here’s the thing. There’s a big brigade thing going on right now where I’m apparently the worst human who’s ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question–it’s just “you’re stupid because Biden” and that’s the end of it. So, I’m really asking–what is the proposed alternative action?
If you want an actual answer, the most peaceful possible solution at this juncture is communist revolution.
Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism. The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
I’ll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn’t really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.
That’s not true, and it shows that you obviously haven’t investigated those revolutions or the theory behind them.
Yes. This issue is dealt with through communist theory. A revolution is a process. It doesn’t end at a “change of regime.”
Its true that class and money are not immediately abolished, because they can’t be immediately abolished. The abolition of class and momey is a theoretical endpoint of a long period of transition because
More or less as you put it.
You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin
You should investigate the actual revolutions you’re talking about, and read some of the basic theories behind them. If you are still against them, then at lesst you will actually know what you’re talking about, and your critiques would be worth hearing
If you just want power you dont have to pretend to be socialist. See Pinochet, among many examples. Pretending to be socialist would just be unnecessary extra work and having the most powerful countries as enemies instead of friends.
even liberal and conservative historians agree that the damn commies were actual communists: behind closed doors they didn’t talk about machiavellian power grabs - they used the same historical materialist framework they would use in public. (for example Kotkin is adamant about this in his Stalin bio. Communists believed in communism. Shocker.)
You’re not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don’t have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.
Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn’t vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?
Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.
Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he’s an isolationist or something, but that’s complete nonsense, he’s the one who murdered Gen Soleimani
I still don’t get what you really want to argue for, though. Is it just to not participate until better candidates come around?
And, having in excess of 15 comments insulting my person in one thread is being brigaded.
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).
I don’t think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn’t enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.
Thanks, that take makes sense. Now I wonder if that is the base from which many are operating?
To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric
This is why I don’t participate in Pride. It’s all corporate bullshit.
fucking libs
They’re both fascists dippy.
Dunno, it’s a year away, why call my shot now when I don’t have all the information yet? But if I voted today and it was Biden v Trump and no competitive 3rd party, it would be an easy blank on the presidential section.
But that’s a hypothetical, we’ll see if Biden aligns more with me in voting day, I can only assume he will double down on trying to seduce disenfranchised Republicans so I’m not hopeful.