I don’t think people join the right because they are annoyed by leftists, I think they join the right because they see a bunch of people full of hatred and want to join in because of their self-centered misanthropy.
100% they just use being annoyed by leftists to hide their ideological view points. Just wanted to share this cause I thought it was funny.
Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have posted that. I didn’t get enough sleep and I’m grouchy. Sorry.
Youre all good, my upstairs neighbor were thumping bass till 5am so I feel your pain, about to take a nap before getting started on a Thanksgiving meal. My apartment complex’s solution is for me to call the Police non emergency line to tell em to turn it down, cause in their words, “the police usually scares them.” Not gonna use institutionalized violence to solve my probelms so I did an annoyingly loud loop over my guitar amp to tell them to turn it down.
I don’t blame you for not calling them. That can lead to very bad things these days. Hope your solution at least pissed them off if it didn’t work.
It definitely pissed em off, and my nap was EPIC.
It’s the same people that say Atheists are as annoying as Christians. Bro, there a lot of atheists you just don’t hear about, you’re making a lame excuse to be Christian.
To be fair, I’m sure there are dozens of legit good Christians out there…somewhere
There’s plenty, you just don’t hear about them because they don’t go around shoving their religion down everyone else’s throats
I live in Czech Republic. Atheism is the default here. Almost nobody talks about faith, since most people don’t care, so you can’t really tell if someone is Christian.
To me, internet atheists are annoying as shit. I get it that the USA close to being an open theocracy and a lot of pushback is still needed before things are even close to normal, but still. Forceful atheism you usually see online is obnoxious, goes to extremes, the smugness is off the charts - simpmy annoying.
IMHO, the modern US is how Divide et Impera (divide and rule) looks when it has entirelly taken over the public discussion domain: identitarian wars over moralistic stuff that has no connection with real power, all the while those who have the one and only greatest power of the land - money - most of whom themselves couldn’t care less about those things, keep on milking the rest for what they still have.
In Europe, you don’t yet see quite the same warring in the moral plane whilst excluding what maters the most to most people (you know, live well in a nice place with a full belly) , though I’ve noticed that both on the Left and the Right here already quite a number of people have been “inspired” by the heavy, heavy propaganda that leaks from the US system and staked and taken identitarian sides in an environment that lacks most of the social and historical anchoring-points that exist in the environment where those chewing-gum for moralism “ideologies” were crafted.
I’m right because women are wrong /s
I think to a degree the left pushes people out though, as your lefty card needs to be spotless or it’s revoked.
Sometimes a person can say one thing wrong and they’ll be labelled an alt-right fascist, and not part of “the group” on the left, especially online.
Obviously that doesn’t make people right wing, but it is a problem that pushes people away from more left leaning views/groups. Rather than try to discuss and correct, people will berate and ostracise.
We eat our own.
Need to improve your diet and eat the rich!
Outstanding.
You think that doesn’t happen on the right? There’s a huge fight in congress now about which idiot is the Republicanest. They’re all calling each other RINOs.
Ok, I’ll bite, give me an example of “one thing wrong” that gets you labelled as an alt-right fascist.
Supporting Ukraine, or liking Stalin. Depending on which instance you’re chatting in
Ok you got me, I don’t see tankies as mainstream left wing, they’re fare gone but wouldn’t label them alt-right
Yeah alt-right maybe not, but they’re called red fash for a reason
huh, generally i’d say not supporting ukraine gets you labelled as a twat and excluded from leftist circles
it depends, a lot of european politicians for example were recently voted out of office and replaced by far right dickheads in large part because of their anti-ukraine views… it’s alarming how common this is and how much ground the left has lost in a lot of european countries because of not supporting ukraine, meanwhile the right used this to their advantage and went all out pro-ukraine (for example in italy with fascist girlboss PM and her coalition). i think this was also a contributing factor in recent finnish elections.
the right is uniting in eurpope for once, instead of hating each other, as well as taking advantage of anti-immigrant anti-LGBT sentiments in the population, meanwhile infighting in the left is causing it to crumble. it’s a terrible sign
Tankies love Putin
and tankies are labeled as twats and excluded from most leftist circles
Shouting “Sig heil!”
Saying you are against abolishing or defunding the police.
Lately, not supporting Hamas tends to bring out those accusations
Not supporting Palestinians (you know, the civilians, including children) tends to bring out those accusations.
The way you formulated it, however, indicates that you think that Hamas = Palestinians or at least that it’s fine if Palestinians suffer for the actions of Hamas, something only a racist would think, so in your case the “accusations” are associated to you being percieved as a racist.
Maybe the one thing the entirety of the Left agrees on is that Racists are scum, not least because racism is one the main defining features of the oldest most murderous kind of rightwing extremism there is: Fascism.
I consider myself a communist, I have been called a nazi or a fascist (I don’t remember) by some people here because I don’t share 100% some of their ideas, I’m still on the left, I still have empathy, I fully support individual freedom. But they are annoying nonetheless.
People don’t align with the Right because of shared political ideals, they align with the Right because the Right hates the same people they do and promises to punish those they hate.
They can scream and wail about “family values” all they want, but when they’re lined up with neo-nazis, white supremacists, and pedophiles all praising their glorious leader (who, BTW, believes that there are “very fine people” among a group who chants "Jews will not replace us! "), everyone on the outside has to wonder what “values” they are really fighting for.
It’s a joke, and it references a commonly heard fake argument from the right that they were left leaning once but couldn’t stand the people.
I will say, anger and hatred are very contagious. I mean, not so contagious that I could start being racist and homophobic…wait, yeah, right wingers are assholes.
Usually memes make up what one side says to make a great comeback, but in this case it’s definitely correct. People absolutely go right because of stupidity on the left, and vice versa
I thibk what thwy’re saying is, is that it is proof you have horrible moral axioms or no axioms at all if you’re willing to shift entire poolitical directions over annoyance. Constructing society MUST be done by people who are less petty and judgemental.
you are correct, however consider that most voters are stupid and they care more about who’s louder and is painted in a better light by the news and their coworkers, not actual policies or beliefs
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Yeah, but voting left or supporting lefty positions doesn’t get us anywhere close to Stalin currently, whereas on the right we have at least a Mussolini with a solid trajectory through Franco to Hitler waiting to get elected.
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You’ve literally never hung out with conservatives in your life, just admit it. You have no idea who we are.
Apart from my wife’s entire family, sure.
I’ve known (and know) many conservatives. While they all had very diverse reasons, the through-line is always hate. Either hate of LGBT people, women’s bodily autonomy, immigrants, POC, workers, or the poor (or all the above).
I don’t consider most of these people bad people, per se. People are complex, and many are good people in other aspects. Most don’t have any kind of power, and aren’t overt about their hatred in strange company, so it doesn’t matter much who they hate. If anything, their hatred is damaging to themselves (emotionally and socially). Though, I guess on the grand scale, they end up voting for politicians that worsen the conditions of the people they hate; and, in most cases, worsen their own conditions.
The fact that you see people on the right as cartoon villains means YOU are the hateful person.
The fact that Trump has made it his life’s mission to be a fucking cartoon villain, and that people actually follow him, is not a moral failing of the guy you replied to.
People on the right wanting to take away medical treatment from trans people that we all know will result in more of them being miserable and committing suicide. That’s hateful.
Laws passed to censor any discussion of homosexuality, ensuring gay people stay isolated, closeted, and unaccepted by larger society. That’s hateful.
Silence any talk of racism lest we work to overcome it? Hateful.
We hear Trump telling us he will lock up the lefties. Believe it or not, hateful.
Trump making fun of disabled people and Republicans laughing along with? Again, Hateful.
Putting brown kids in cages, or yanking them away from their families and then losing them? Hateful.
And on and on.
Rabid right wing extremists have taken over the GOP over the last few decades. They’re the hateful ones.
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Things it’s okay to hate people for:
- Their race
- Their gender
- Who they are attracted to
- Their ethnicity
- Their religion
Things it’s not okay to hate people for:
- Their shitty opinions
Thank you for saving us from the cancel mob
You sound like a happy person. I hope you get the help that you need.
I am
It does not mean they are hateful, you silly billy. It means they cannot observe the reasons for the hate.
That COULD be because they agree with it and do not want to admit, but you MUST understand how wishful thinking and ignorance to evil ABSOLUTELY produces the same result.
MLK Jr. was not calling everyone who sat on their butt evil. He called their inaction the banality of evil. It does NOT take an evil person to do a horrible thing. The fact you do not realize that means it is you who has a lot of growing to do.
Yes, inaction because of ignorance is bad. Though calling people evil because they’re ignorant is utterly counterproductive and frankly, pathetically judgemental, too.
Except they literally are, looking at the US. I’m European and I see most right-wing European politicians as just “assholes I disagree with”, but the US Republicans are literally cartoon villains at this point. Like, Trump would get labeled as unrealistic if he was an antagonist in a remotely adult-oriented movie.
And Europeans are anti-trans bigots who have begun limiting gender affirming care to minors. What’s your point?
That’s not all Europeans, and it also applies to most American Republicans. Whataboutism is already weak as an argument, at least mention an issue the US don’t have as well (not that I can come up with any, honestly)
Obviously it’s not ALL Europeans. No country in the world is a monolith. The governments, however, ARE representative of the general will of the people. The fact that the governments of Europe (again who are representative of the people) are backpedaling on gender affirming care and pausing things like hormone replacement therapy, gender reassignment surgery, and shutting down gender clinics indicates to me that the general will of the people in Europe is one of transphobia.
“Most American Republicans” are in the minority and NOT representative of the will of the people as indicated by the fact that our current administration is Democrat. We also affirm trans individuals by allowing widespread access to gender affirming care, flying the trans flag on public buildings, and highlighting trans individuals in mainstream media.
For the record, my argument was not a “whataboutism”, but yours in fact was.
When were we talking about “all Americans”? I always talked about “right-wing politicians”, and the large majority of US right-wing politicians are anti-trans. That’s not generalizing. Saying Europeans, or even European governments are “anti-trans bigots” is generalizing and implying the left-wing governments are anti-trans as well, when it’s pretty much only the right wing, just like in the US. You’re also exaggerating a lot of what’s actually happening in Europe, unless I’m coincidentally looking in all the wrong places. For example, it seems to me “shutting down gender clinics” is referring to exactly one clinic being announced to shut down in the UK, while others are being built in the exact same area.
”You’re a hateful person if you see people on the right as cartoon villains”
”US Republicans literally act like cartoon villains though”
”Well Europeans are all anti-trans bigots”
You replied to my point with a different one, with the intent to diminish mine by pivoting the attention to yours. How is it not the exact definition of whataboutism?
CHOOSE:
freedom of thought, but you have to learn to work with people you disagree with slightly or find annoying: left
uniformity of thought, but you are surrounded by bleating sheep and must bleat along: right
It cracks me up how antivaxxers on the right try using the slogan “Lions not sheep”. It reminds me of how Fox News used to call themselves “Fair and Balanced”.
It’s always funny when the right start having a lot of infighting because it turns out that “what everyone thinks” turns out to be a personal choice.
They never have infighting about how to make things better though… Like they don’t fight weather we should help single mothers with X or just Y… No they argue if billionaires should get pay no taxes or negative taxes…
A lot of younger (louder) leftists are not liberal so they enforce uniform thought in their communities and mock liberals.
Leftism is intersectional. So having communities that agree with one another but disagree with others is often the state of things. One community can get more accomplished if they agree internally. Liberals are not leftists.
Majority of people who vote left wing are liberals and most leftwing policy in the west is based in liberal values. It seems to be only a small set of people on the left that are not liberal.
There’s nothing left wing about liberalism.
Being left of center is not being a “leftist.”
Leftists are commies. That’s why this guy is arguing that liberalism is right-wing. Anything that isn’t communism is right-wing to him.
The real reason there are no leftists in US politics is that outside of a few small internet circles, there are vanishingly few leftists in America.
Wait I didnt say right wing 😡
Maybe I need to read more on where the term leftisn comes from. I was under the impression it referred to any left wing voter.
“Leftism” is a philosophy, namely that collectivist solutions are the correct answer to all societal problems. It is the purview of a “leftist” or someone who adheres to communist (or otherwise generally some type of Marxist or post-Marxist) thought.
I definitely understand the confusion if you didn’t know that.
This is confusing. Liberalism isn’t leftwing, it’s right-of-center at best. Most often it’s right-wing economic policies with socially left-wing ineffectual lip service. Especially with how far right the Democrats have trended since the 80s and their adoption of a corporate focused form of third-wayism. There are only a handful of representatives who could even be considered slightly left-of-center progressives.
Liberalism could mean a wide variety of political positions, from left to right.
Especially with how far right the Democrats have trended since the 80s and their adoption of a corporate focused form of third-wayism
You might wanna give "third way’ a Google, because you do not know what it means.
There are very few actual leftists at any point in US politics because leftists don’t exist as a substantive bloc of US voters. Bemoaning that people who aren’t leftists don’t do leftist things doesn’t really make a lot of sense
Tangent, but there’s a lesson with the third way that’s often forgotten.
It worked.
Conservatism was way too popular. The country was just not at a point to go further left, as unfortunate as it was. Reagan ushered in an era of conservative dominance that we’re only just now emerging from.
Young people of all generations do not have full brains developed yet, they are basic and self righteous until 27ish
CHOOSE:
grouping everyone on a binary political scale with no nuances
not thinking that you’re either left OR right, but realise that you can have different opinions and preferences in different areas and those can’t always be forced into a left/right box, and that you can agredisagree with anyone, regardless if you vote for the same party or not
We on the right don’t view uniformity of thought as a positive.
lol
Really? The right around here is burning books, claiming their religious beliefs should be enshrined in laws forced on others, and openly supporting a wannabe dictator while calling anyone in their party who doesn’t agree a ‘Rino’ (Republica in name only). To say nothing of the connection to churches and their ‘flocks’
That is a lot of trying to force viewpoints on others and create a uniform viewpoint
Interesting. Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views? Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left? I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought. The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views?
From the people who tried to cancel D&D, Rock music, The Dixie Chicks, Drag shows, LGBTQ…
Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left?
From the people who started asking if the ultra-religious speaker of the house was “secretly a Democrat” because he simply acknowledged the difficulties his adopted black son has that his white son doesn’t.
I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought. The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
From the people who shouted down a reporter for simply asking the question “do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?”
Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views?
They aren’t
Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left?
You aren’t
I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought.
You are wrong here
The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
Why is this even a positive lol
Dude, people on the left don’t agree with everything on the left. That’s the entire point of this post. Grow up and have some nuence in thought. Learn to analyze what you’re told and think critically, not just repeat things you hear other people say.
Exactly. I’m a leftist and I’ve been banned by leftists for disagreeing with them.
You don’t have to be right wing to get called a nazi by a leftist
This is true. People can be quick af to jump to conclusions and even won’t believe you when you say you’re not disagreeing with them as a whole, just on some nuance.
Everything you said is bullshit and d r I p p I n g in so much propaganda filth I don’t think you are an actual real person! Literally Nobody talks like this.
In my opinion it sounds a lot like what would be concluded by somebody too distant from the subject to notice details if being fed entirelly by the “opinion forming” newsmedia that has does propaganda for a specific side.
I’ve seen the exact same thing when I lived in the UK and certain newspapers kept publishing stories about very specific poor people who had morally repreensible behaviours and painting it as “all poor people are like this” (for example, they showed entire families who had lived of social security for 3 generations as portray it as a “something the poor do” even though in a country of 50 million there was a grand total of 4 families which had had 3 generations living of social security) - plenty of people who were capable of reasoning (but lacked skepticism or any analytical thinking) would, as they were meant to, conclude that “the poor are lazy and lack morals”.
People will most definitely and very genuinelly have their opinion formed against a group or ideologic domain they don’t really know well, by being fed stories of extreme cases labelled as “from that side” and their simpleminded reasoning pushed to conclude those extreme cases are actually representative.
(The same thing is done to a lot of people who genuinelly believe themselves “leftwing” - the dominant “left” thinking in places like the US and UK is shaped by “opinion makers” that claimed the “left” label, rather than being something people build by themselves “from basic principles” - it’s not by chance that the thinking of Chomsky is a lot more all-around consistent and generic than what comes out the self-proclaimed lefties in the Democrat party).
Genuine Free-thinkers are incredibly rare nowadays.
Yet you haven’t said anything. Which part is incorrect?
The part where the left cancels everything but the poor pitiful free speech respecting conservatives are totally innocent. Lol. Right wingers are the all time world champions of cancel culture.
You really gonna gaslight about the left not canceling anything? Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, Land o Lakes… You all couldn’t wait to get rid of minorities in advertising. How about people’s careers ended and lives ruined because of allegations of them saying something that goes against whatever is currently trendy, even if the comment was twenty years ago. JK Rowling was beloved by everybody and then said something someone didn’t like and now she’s hated by those very same people. Roseanne had a hit show with 18 million viewers to be kicked off for a comment. Even Dr. Suess couldn’t escape it. But according to you, none of that happened. Maybe I just have a wild imagination.
You’re both profoundly ignorant of the subject matter and very confident you know a lot about it, a.k.a. an excellent example of the Dunning-Krugger effect.
Consider the possibility that what you hear about “The Left” (just the idea that it’s an unified thing is ridiculous) from the media you consume (American, right?!) are the shocking things that will make you form the opinion others want you to have - in other words, you’re being treated as an useful idiot.
Even in the US, were whatever passes for “Left” is very much captured by the local Duopoly Of Power politics and doesn’t really tries to effectivelly achieve the “Greatest good for the greatest number” (otherwise they would be way, WAY, WAY more worried about wealth inequality and not obcessed with fragmented identitarian infighting), leftwing thinking is a range - though narrower than elsewhere - not a unified anything.
otherwise they would be way, WAY, WAY more worried about wealth inequality
Income inequality doesn’t really do anything at all, so no I pretty strongly disagree with this.
The difference of life expectation between rich and poor is more than a decade: income inequality quite literally dictates how long somebody lives.
You must live an unbelievably sheltered life in an extremelly isolated and limited ideas bubble and having lived a life with an extraordinarilly narrow range of life experiences if you think wealth inequality doesn’t make a difference.
Income inequality is the difference between highest and lowest earners. This is meaningless statistic
What matters is where the floor is, and how surmountable that difference is. Actual policy positions matter a lot more than “but this one has more”
You’ve changed the definition of “income inequality” to match a very specific non-standard metric, which of course is a “meaningless statistic” since that’s exactly what you redefined it to be - that’s what’s commonly known as a “straw man”.
The problem is not how many “wealth tokens” people have, it’s that in the system we live under at the moment there is a gatekeeping by amount of “wealth token” of access to important things such as food, the place somebody can live in, the opportunities their children have, their access to healthcare, how much free time they have, and even their freedom (having to work doing something you don’t want to do to barelly survive isn’t Freedom).
Nobody would give a shit about “wealth” if how many “wealth tokens” somebody has only affected luxuries, and in such an environment there wouldn’t even be a life expectation difference between people with lots of “wealth tokens” and people with few “wealth tokens”.
The problem is the combination of wealth inequality and a system were wealth dictates access to life essentials rather than merelly to luxuries. If all “wealth tokens” bought were bragging rights and a few luxuries, few would care.
If that’s what you mean with “were the floor is” then we’re probably more in agreement than it seemed at first sight.
You’ve changed the definition of “income inequality” to match a very specific non-standard metric, which of course is a “meaningless statistic” since that’s exactly what you redefined it to be - that’s what’s commonly known as a “straw man”.
I’m using the standard definition of income inequality.
https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/Inequality/introduction-to-inequality
I not sure what your overall point is here, but the total distribution of wealth is a meaningless statistic. If you had all your needs taken care of, UBI, didn’t work etc and one person had a quadrillion dollars under that same system, you would not give a shit.
Disagreeing with a gay person’s lifestyle doesn’t make you a nazi. Wanting to punish a gay person in any way because of their lifestyle does.
Calling it a “lifestyle” is phobic propaganda btw.
I wasn’t aware of that, nor was it my intention, but I can see how it can be interpreted that way as a “lifestyle” is a way people choose to live. Gay people aren’t choosing a gay lifestyle any more than white people are choosing a white lifestyle.
It’s also about implying promiscuity, but yeah the terminology was definitely an effective bit of rhetorical warfare, most people use it out of habit without considering the implications.
fair, I never used that word not because of any knowledge of negative connotation, but because it just seemed off, like it was never really the right word. Seeing you describe the potential negative connotations certainly will make me more careful.
I understand the opinion, but I don’t know if I agree. If you say someone has a “poor” lifestyle, that’s not a choice necessarily. I always assumed the word includes intrinsic and extrinsic factors.
Still, it might be the wrong word if some people do think in a way that causes harm.
Fucking leftists, they ruined leftism!
The Leftists certainly are a contentious people.
Edit: I’m actually kinda surprised they never did anything with that. Willie should have harbored the grudge for years only to attack Skinner out of nowhere.
Save it for the final episode.
Is there ever gonna be a final episode? They’re working on 4 decades at this point, and it seems to be entering a Renaissance in this season.
huh, who could have thought that political opinions are not strictly binary.
Not conservatives.
Lol, made me spit my coffee out.
I am politically nb.
That premise is incorrect, though. Conservatives don’t have political opinions. Seriously. Even the GOP platform doesn’t exist anyone. It’s all just culture war nonsense and dog whistles. And their voters know the “traditional values” white person is being erased and discriminated against and they need to stand vigilantly opposed to wokeness… How do they know? Their feelings.
Are you suggesting political opinions are actually unary?
“I was mad the people I tend to agree with how to fix my country were not doing enough, so I just became part of the problem.”
Like anyone on the right actually cares about fixing problems. It’s all about how they can benefit from a situation, how they can spin things to their advantage.
They know deep down they are supporting the trainwreck, they just want a media ecosystem that blames others so they don’t feel personally responsible for it.
ding ding ding ding
You’ve got it wrong here, they care about fixing ‘problems’
When you make up problems so the solution can be physical violence, ANY ‘problem’ is ‘solvable’ if you stir up enough ‘vigilantes’ to solve it!
I honestly would probably vote Republican if they put up a candidate that had solutions to economic problems they swear is caused by the left.
But they don’t have any, because all their candidates bluster about the economy while they run on platforms centered around identity politics, religious law, and reducing women’s bodily autonomy.
Every day I have to hear conservatives complain about how “Biden ruined the economy” but they don’t seem to care all that much about fixing it. They just want to ban abortion, suppress the gays , and put Christ back in Christmas.
It honestly feels like the left doesn’t know how to fix the economy and the right just doesn’t want to.
Yo we should stop it though. Its part of the reason they can get stuff done and we can’t.
Considering the Right has a unified goal (complete removal of “them” and codifying perceived hierarchy into law), they don’t care about the process
The Left does NOT have a unified goal OR process. Off the top of my head, the Contrapoints/Hasanabi “millionaires are ok, thinking otherwise is immature and envious”, the Maupin/Coffin Red Browns, the Vaush/Xanderhal “it should be codified that I should be able to say the N word”, the “all theft should be legal” webcomic artists, the Sinfest “feminism went too far when it allowed trans/queer people”, the tiktok “any intercourse information made public should be an assault charge”
the tiktok “any intercourse information made public should be an assault charge”
You and I have very different FYPs lol
I agree. What we call the “Left” in the US is a largely heterogenous group of people separated by decades of infighting and a mountain of conflicting interests. There’s the types you mentioned, then there’s the trans activists, the eco activists, black/BIPOC activists, socialists, anarchists, liberals, feminists, and on and on.
Suppose you are a Democratic House or Senate candidate. To actually win the election, you need two things, votes and funding. You know there are things your voter base cares passionately about, that they have no hope of ever getting from Republicans, but unfortunately they are also things the big ticket donors despise. So, what do you do? You’ll have to steer away from policies that will break the coalition and split the vote. You’ll have to steer away from topics that will frighten the donor class. When faced with that challenge of keeping the Left (mostly) united AND getting that sweet donor cash, most mainstream Democrats tend to pivot away from wedge issues and policies, and focus more on process. Y’know, uncontroversial things like bipartisanship, decorum, and compromise. And while we’re all sick of the lack of these things in DC, they’re not things Democrats can make happen all by themselves, and more importantly, none of them are results, they’re means.
No! We can’t work together with people who want something else just because they call themselves leftists, too
Yeah, I’m a leftist, I just think landlords have their place, billionaires are job creators, and if we disrupt the status quo too much the global south might stop giving us resources for nothing- A Great Mind
Im sorry but you’re fired from being leftist.
I also believe unions are the devil so I suppose I can’t fight this, have a nice day.
True. What is the nation if not the workers of that nation. So what’s good for the nation is good for the workers. How do we measure what’s good for the nation? By looking at what’s good for the top 1%
Yeah that’s just logical, is owning things not a job?
c/gatekeeping
At that point they don’t work with us. Doesn’t necessarily mean we have to be rivals.
I think exactly that way and am as left as you can be in the Finnish mainstream party system, with the exception of small sub-1% parties like the Communist Party.
Landlords & Billionaires = living, breathing taxation waiting to happen
Even if we were to tax a billionaire by 80%, they would probably still be a billionaire. However, they would also indeed be creating jobs, wealth and sustainable growth. School systems, medicine, hospitals, city infrastructure, job placement programmes, you name it, they fund it.
Corporate tax is also grossly under-utilized.
Capitalism isn’t bad if you tax it hard and use the money for the welfare of citizens.
However, they would also indeed be creating jobs, wealth and sustainable growth.
Not really. They don’t create jobs, at best they are the organizers. And since they are usually heirs, there might be much better people to manage such a large organization. We don’t need them at all.
The best course of action is to remove the possibility for people concentrating such vast amounts of power in the first place. Billionaires can always buy legislation back, which is why that tight regulation or taxation will never really happen under capitalism.
I mean just look at how inactive democrats are at office compared to current conservatives at passing the things people actually want. We have been trying this forever already, but they are most probably in the pockets of bigger fish at this point.
None of that stops you from, say, joining an union though.
I’m answering from the perspective of living in a country with functional democracy, so it’s hard to see the power the wealthy have over it.
Lobbying and representative campaign funding are more transparent here. No party has majority seats alone, coalition governments are a necessity. Legislation is consensus driven.
Finland is very much operating in a capitalism driven economy while still supplying its citizens socialism driven security.
Capitalism is like fire. It’s a good tool, but a bad master. With appropriate legislative checks in place, it won’t get out of control.
In the States it already has, but that doesn’t mean that capitalism is bad. Just that nobody was tending the fire.
Don’t be mistaken, the billionaires still rule in there too, they just somehow allow you a better life. Usually this comes because they have neocolonies abroad to exploit intead of you. This is usually the case in europe. The only real masters of capitalism are the burgeois and how they are choosing to use it.
Finland seems to be the one exception in the world where I dont think you’ve been that historically aggressive with fucking others over (at least compared to the rest of europe), but theres probably some neocolonialism over africa to mantain it, I’m not that familiar with Finland to say much for sure.
In any case we can’t base our assumptions around an exception when the overwhelming majority of capitalist “democracies” never really worked for the common people.
edit: China seems to be implementing a bit of both, as an example.
If we don’t support the landchads, the wagies and rentoids might take control and believe they have rights
We can’t work together with people who want something different …
This is why free markets are important, incidentally
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Most of us have common goals and common methods. We should act in that overlap whenever we can. We do have strength in numbers
There are people I agree with from different leftist traditions, but then again there are people I disagree with on all these traditions, too. I even have overlap with some (lower case) conservative people when it comes to ecological questions
Thats what I mean! Work together when you can, but fellow workers are rarely actual enemies all the time.
No. Leftie infighting is important. Thats why I’m gonna say Thought Slime is sussy af and actually the most annoying leftist of all time.
Hasn’t the Republican Party been in total disarray since Trump left office?
Lol no way. They are eroding workers rights, putting kids to work on many states, deepening inequality, allowing more oil than ever before to be extracted and burned, financing a genocide… Take your pick. They probably already have a plan drawn up for their next term chairing the executive branch.
And most of the so called " democratic" party in your country (including the president) seem to be helping them out, or letting them do it because they are covertly siding with corporations too. The difference is they are not as outwardly fascistic.
From the perspective of someone from outside the US, their policy towards us is exactly as shitty too.
For me it’s the comma splices.
Similar like that.
Oh yeah, I’ve used this meme format so many times to describe various leftist dynamics
That’s not fair I’m annoyed by everyone all the time
Speaking of…
It’s like people insist that only two types of people exists.
People that are me, and people that aren’t
I’ve never really ever seen this. I think there is a perception of it happening but where is the evidence?
I think however I have seen plenty of lefties choose not to vote, or abandon the parties that should have backed them and didnt (eg UK Labour Party and Green Party). Or turn their backs on groups because of infighting.
“Every family has that one family member everyone else shits on behind their back. And if you’re sitting there thinking ‘hang on, my family doesn’t do that…’, I’ve got bad news for you.”
I will never understand why leftists constantly say you shouldn’t vote. Like, if you can’t even motivate people to do step one do you really think you’re going to motivate them to revolution?
Splitters!
nanners
True dat.
That’s not at all how it happens.
It’s about how they claim that this transformation happened to them. Whether they’re lying or not is a different story.
