Things that are so obvious and ingrained that no one even thinks about them.

Here’s a few:

All US americans can go to Mexico EASILY. You’re supposed to have a passport but you don’t even need one (for car/foot crossing). Versus, it’s really hard for Mexicans, who aren’t wealthy, to secure a VISA to enter the US. I’m sure there are corollaries in other geo-regions.

Another one is wealthy countries having access to vaccines far ahead of “poor” countries.

In US, we might pay lip service to equal child-hood education but most of the funding pulls from local taxes so some kids might receive ~$10000 in spending while another receives $2000. I’m not looking it up at the moment, but I’m SURE there are strong racial stratas.

  • What_Religion_R_They [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    “Violence isn’t the answer” regarding Palestine

    i’m sure the savage arabs haven’t heard of non-violence thanks for letting them know. It’s just weird eugenicist shit, because these white people would also be violent had they been born under the conditions of colonial subjugation

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      The ENTIRE fucking reason America claims it was allowed to exist is that George Fucking Washington and his associates were SUFFICIENTLY OPPRESSED by the British government, to the point where it became permissible to fire 70 caliber lead balls into soldiers skulls.

      But black and brown people should just fucking take it I guess

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        Not to mention, the american revolution happened because the settlers wanted to keep their slaves, keep expanding their colonies and genociding indigenous people, and didn’t want to pay taxes on shit. And it’s permissible and noble for them to revolt under those conditions

        Meanwhile it’s bad when Palestinians rise up when they have been refugees and ethnically cleansed for 75 years

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        That happened a long time ago! We’re so much more sophisticated now (no we’re not just pulling the ladder up after ourselves).

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      This also goes with the States. we learned about MLK jr. a lot in school and he “peacefully protested.” But we weren’t taught much about Malcolm X or Fred Hampton because they were “violent thugs”.

      We weren’t taught that King was a socialist but some classes called Malcolm X and Hampton socialist or communist. Which rolled into how the Black Panthers were “a violent gang” instead of a group of inner city poor people doing mutual aid for impoverished neighborhoods and poor schools.

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        Sure would be embarrassing for libs if there was some sort of Great March of Return within the last 5 years where civilian protests were shot with live ammo.

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      “Violence isn’t the answer” period.

      It’s fine to systematically oppress and destroy people slowly in a system designed to harness their survival drive to sacrifice their labor value but if those people realize what’s happening and fight back it’s unacceptable.

      Also the whole idea of people saying “violence is never the answer” ignoring the entirety of human nature and calling into question why every single nation has a military.

      • te_st_user@lemm.ee
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        It’s a pretty common assumption that if people act antisemitic while fighting back against an oppressor, their struggle should be discarded and condemned by the international community. Thoughts?

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      When anyone tells you violence isn’t the answer, they are either ignorant non-thinkers or they are trying to manipulate you. Throughout the history of the world, violence has always been the answer. This place sucks.

    • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      because these white people would also be violent had they been born under the conditions of colonial subjugation

      Gestures at the American War of Independence

      And that was just the diet version of colonial subjugation.

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      They got brain-washed by a combination of comfort and “peaceful” eastern religious influence by the likes of Gandhi.

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    I found out not too long ago that apparently in polite voteblue society it’s still okay to talk about countries being “civilized” where “civilized” essentially means “white”. I am used to chauvinism, but that one really got to me (it was about Russia’s invasion being the first time in a long time that there was a war between two “civilized” countries).

    • CthulhusIntern [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      I remember that headline during the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine “This is the first war of my lifetime between civilized countries”. So obvious what they meant.

      • 7bicycles [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I remember that headline during the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine “This is the first war of my lifetime between civilized countries”. So obvious what they meant.

        I kept hearing it’s the first war in europe since ww2 and this feels like it goes along the same lines but even weirder

      • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I really hated how people talked about “war in Europe!” as something extra horrible and tragic, unlike when it is brown people being at war which doesn’t warrant the same moral outrage.

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      Man, is it so hard for people to understand that different communities in the world are at different stages of development and/or just have different ways of operating than is typical of their own areas?

      Society isn’t homogeneous and it’s pretty basic knowledge

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      Their deification in general gets on my nerves. Everything they’ve ever said or written is treated as infallible words of god and nobody may ever dispute them.

    • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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      I suppose the British considered them to be rebels, insurrectionists, or maybe even terrorists. It’s all a matter of perspective isn’t it?

      • Wheaties [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        The British press and government explicitly called them terrorists.

        But the other side of it is just as laughable. Whenever the framers of the constitution wrote about what they were trying to do, they would endlessly hand-wring about how bad it would be for everyone to have a say in government. They thought only rich land-owning men had proved themselves worthy to hold power. You know, them and all their friends. The american “revolution” had more in common with a coup than any sort of real liberatory movement.

        • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          It’s like Bezos and Elon being the “founding fathers” of an independent US West Coast, nothing revolutionary about it.

        • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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          Well it was still a step in the right direction, distributing power a bit more locally instead of living as a colony under a monarchical foreign power. You may also recall that initially they went too far in decentralizing power before the Constitution replaced the articles of confederation. Even then voting rights were mostly decided by each state, some allowing non land owners and even free black men (though sometimes later removing that right) to vote pre 1800s. Whatever they may have discussed, voting and ability to participate in government was enjoyed by over half of the citizens, which is a significant improvement over the foreign tyrant they had previously. But regardless of how the British tried to label colonial rebels, and regardless of how much the rebels didn’t get right, I’m on the side of the historical revolutionaries.

          • Sephitard9001 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            I would love to know your opinion of the CPC within this context. You have made it clear that you support American revolutionaries if only because their system was ostensibly better than the one that came before. What about Chinese revolutionaries?

            • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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              Hmm, interesting question. That depends if you think that the society they have now is better than the one preceding? The two situations aren’t entirely analogous since one involved separation from a foreign power while the other involved dismantling of the old culture and society in order to make a brand new one. I think that China is more powerful now than they would be otherwise, had they not gone through their cultural revolution, but it came at a great cost where centuries of culture was destroyed. I don’t think it was worth it, but that’s also easy for me to say because I don’t live there and because my perception is certainly skewed by Western perspectives. I think they lost something of great value with how the cultural revolution played out and the Chinese people are irrecoverably different as a result. Makes me a little bit sad, but we can’t change the past, so it doesn’t really matter.

              • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                You think “destroying centuries of culture” outweighs abolishing extreme poverty, ending feudalism in a country of more than a billion, redistributing land to the peasantry, taking the country from a cycle where every few years millions would die in a famine to being an economic super power, leading the world in space age scientific progress?

                • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  I couldn’t even be bothered to engage once they tried to imply that the Chinese revolution didn’t involve separation from a foreign power. what was the Shanghai International Settlement? they sure don’t know, maybe it was a floor wax or a dessert topping.

                • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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                  Also the environment was devastated and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) died. Also how do you feel about China’s current treatment of indigenous Tibetans? Maybe you should take off your red colored glasses and look around.

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            I always get a kick out of how silly they were and how bad at designing governments they ended up being. Like you pointed out their first attempt was a shitshow, and when you read the federalist papers he outright says the entire plan is for there to be no political parties, if we get those it won’t work and we’ll all be fucked.

            And yet as soon as King George relinquished the presidency we had a two party system, in fact the Constitution more or less makes a two party system inevitable. And it has no provisions for the legislature being unable to legislate etc, basic stuff that the British had already had to solve with their Parliament.

            And yet they’re supposed to be these incredible architects of a genius system of intricate checks and balances.

            • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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              Makes you wonder if our success as a nation had more to do with explosive growth, immigration, and opportunity. Or maybe the system worked well under those conditions, but now the whole environment is steady state and it doesn’t work quite as well.

            • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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              Many civilizations came and went over the ages, displaced by integration into other civilizations or straight up genocide. Most of these we have little record of, other than a few shards of pottery or other artifacts. I’m not advocating for that approach, but you also can’t look at history through some kind of idealistic lens, acting like people were any different back then.

          • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            yes I hold all cartoonishly evil slavers, colonialists, genocideurs, imperialists and capitalist exploiters to the same standard of deserving to be overthrown by the people they abuse

            CW: Depiction of a slave getting whipped and a dog getting hanged on orders of George Washington

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            I’m not assuming you’re being intellectually honest by claiming every civilisation has practised genocidal colonialism, I have complete confidence that you pulled that factoid out of your arse.

      • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        if I hold you in chains and whip you for not picking cotton fast enough for me, would that just be a “matter of perspective” you smug liberal?

          • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            since you’re confused let’s trace the entire context of the conversation from the thread title down to here.

            Question: What are some obvious racist and chauvinist things that are totally normalized?

            Answer (from wombat): Treating the usian “founding fathers” as democracy-loving freedom fighters

            Statement (from you): I suppose the British considered them to be rebels, insurrectionists, or maybe even terrorists. It’s all a matter of perspective isn’t it?

            Question (from me): if I hold you in chains and whip you for not picking cotton fast enough for me, would that just be a “matter of perspective” you smug liberal?

            Since the hegemonic perspective of the founding fathers in the US is that they’re democracy-loving freedom fighters, it doesn’t really matter what the British thought. We’re discussing the normalized racism and chauvinism of worshiping a bunch of slave owning proto-bourgeois settler-colonialists. It’s not just a matter of perspective. The shit they did to people had real material consequences. Hence my question to you which you didn’t answer: if I hold you in chains and whip you for not picking cotton fast enough for me, would that just be a “matter of perspective” you smug liberal? That is. If you were actually treated by me the way the founding fathers treated people, would it still be this vague “matter of perspective” or would you be justified in despising me?

            • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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              If I were a slave, I would probably be less concerned about who exactly is holding the whip, and more so the fact that I was getting whipped. Whether the colonists were considered terrorists or some kind of freedom fighters would be largely irrelevant to me in that case, despite that perspective mattering a great deal to the rest of the world at the time and even still to this day.

              • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                I would probably be less concerned about who exactly is holding the whip, and more so the fact that I was getting whipped

                John Brown, Nat Turner, and The Haitian revolutionaries would tell you that those two concerns are identical since the latter concern provides you with your target in regards to how to bring about a real material change in the former concern. If you are a slave, and you want to stop being whipped, you run away. But if you want everyone else to stop getting whipped as well, you fight the slave owners. That is how slavery ended in the United States after all. War with the slave power.

                • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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                  So do you think that slavery would have ended sooner if the American revolution never happened? Do you think there was any net benefit to humanity as a result of the American revolution? Is it possible for good men to do bad things or does bad things make them bad people?

                • Occamsrazer@lemdro.id
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                  Sometimes it’s more about what that person symbolizes. Take George Floyd for instance. By almost any metric he was not a good person, but he didn’t deserve to die, and the way that he died became a symbol, a representation of an entire people who have seen injustice at the hands of the police. George Floyd is practically a saint in the eyes of many, despite all his flaws as a person. So why not the founding fathers?

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    “I got jipped” or however it’s spelled. We say it all the time in America, but a euro transplant informed me that it’s basically a slur for gypsies.

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        True. Gypsy itself is a slur too, right? Sorry, idk much and European bigotry aside from the meme where Europeans scold us for being a racist country, then turn around and say they want to exterminate the Roma.

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          Yeah I think so. We have a lot of great threads on Roma culture in Hexbear, I’d recommend checking them out because their culture is really cool. I especially love Romani architecture.

          Seriously, check out these sick palaces!

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          Yeah, but IIRC it’s also a situation like indian/native american where sometimes people prefer one term or the other. Like anything else I suppose, never lead with it but if someone corrects you just roll with it.

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            I learned sorta recently that while some people prefer American Indian there are a ton of people who consider Indian to be something like the soft n word, as in some Native Americans might say it a lot but others shouldnt say it, so people should be careful about not stepping on that.

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              The groups I’m in avoid the entire issue by saying indigenous. Indigenous peoples were of many nations that were crushed in the genocide of manifest destiny and the not even given American citizenship until the 1920s. Even then, they’ve been repeadly fucked by the government who has so rarely honored any part of the multitude of treaties we have with the various indigenous nations.

              • I like the Canadian term of “first Americans”. It’s not racialized and seems more respectful (not that Canada is at so respectful to them). But it does still highlight the fact that they were so well erased from American history that a blanket term is used for the multitude if ethnicities and nations that were here first.

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                  First Nations is acceptable but First Americans still uses a settler colonial name to describe people of indigenous nations. (America was named after an Italian Explorer, not exactly anything indigenous about that word).

        • BoxedFenders [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          And they always try to defend this position by saying “But it’s different with gypsies- they really do live up to their stereotypes!” while simultaneously faking for support for BLM from abroad.

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      When I grew up I never thought anything about where the term jipped ( maybe it’s spelled gypped? ) came from, but after hearing jew used as a verb in the same context got me thinking about where the term came from. Not all epiphanies feel good.

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      The term “g*psy” being used casually, in a way simply used to just talk about the Roma people, and it being the only term most people know for them, is also another racist thing that’s normalized.

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        It’s so normalized that they use it all the time in kids cartoons over here.

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        It’s also abysmally ignorant. Roma have been in Europe for centuries, but they originally migrated from India. It was assumed by medieval Europeans that they were from Egypt, because Egypt is in the Bible, and India isn’t, so they all knew about Egypt. So they called the the G-slur as a proxy of “Egyptian”

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          For centuries the word used in Danish for Romas and travellers (why be precise about who we’re talking about?) was “Tatars”. People didn’t know shit about where the Romas came from but Crimea sounded like an exotic place so why not pretend that this is where these exotic people came from? An example of the use of this world is the 1665 legal code that bans “Jews and Tatars” from the country.

    • UltraGreen [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Oh yeah. I remember learning about this one. Living in America, I don’t think a lot of us are aware of Roma people, and thus don’t know it’s a racial slur.

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        I blame Notre Dame. That movie made me think it was more of like a job description like a traveling merchant. I didn’t know it referred to a group of people until I had internet.

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    Racial “preferences” in dating. No matter how they cut it, it’s racist. Yet people will say “it’s ok to have preferences!”

    Yeah sure… I mean back in the day many people “preferred” to not eat with black ppl… jesus fucking christ the racial preferences in dating really ticks me off (especially when you see someone who is otherwise “liberal” and “hates hate” date only white people)

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    ”Declining birthrates” is considered a normal thing to talk about, even though it only refers to white people.

    Condescending attitudes towards any non-international-community-1international-community-2 country, like I remember when the US left Afghanistan and a lot of people said stuff along the lines of ”We helped them so much and they still didn’t become a good liberal democracy!”.

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      ”Declining birthrates” is considered a normal thing to talk about, even though it only refers to white people.

      I encourage you not to read any comments sections about declining birthrates in Japan, South Korea, or China. They invariably read like cattle farmers complaining about a bad year, except usually cattle farmers aren’t chomping at the bit to go fuck the cows.

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        Yeah that part of Asia is NOT doing well. I think Japan has actually seen an uptick recently, but South Korea has had the same problem for a while now, and it’s probably never getting better unless they get liberated by the DPRK.

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          South Korea is mega fucked but Japan’s birthrate is pretty much in line with a bunch of developed nations. There’s something kinda gross and wrong when random crackers on the internet will write essays on how Japan is chaste and sexless (lmao) even though it has a higher birthrate than Italy. Could you even imagine someone calling the Italians sexless virgins?

          • CTHlurker [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            Oh yeah, there’s a big-ass bunch of brainworms involved in that particular idea. Europe has just been better able to mask it’s “sexless virgins” problem by bombing poorer african countries and taking the civillian population in as refugees.

            Also I might just add that there was a sort of joke but not really in Denmark back in early 2022, where Denmark was trying to reform it’s immigration system (along the obvious us-foreign-policy lines) as our industrial corporations were screaming for a bigger workforce, but our population is too racist to just allow “anyone” to move here and work those plentiful jobs. Suddenly the war in Ukraine was breaking out, and a danish comedian said on national tv, that strictly speaking Putin might have just saved the danish economy by creating a bunch of refugees who are highly educated and can thus work our industrial jobs. Immediately after, the danish confederation of industry (bougie union) went out and said that Ukrainians in general are not qualified to do the jobs that their membership wanted done.

          • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            There’s something kinda gross and wrong when random crackers on the internet will write essays on how Japan is chaste and sexless (lmao) even though it has a higher birthrate than Italy.

            I certainly would be very careful to swing too far the other way and pretend Japan isn’t an extremely backwards oppressive patriachy. Yes they have sex of course, but are you just going to ignore the entire context around where and how that sex happens?

            If there is a valid criticism here its how these criticis usualy have no socialist or even leftist background therefore they turn to BS liberal social/economic analysis and comparisons to the “normal” western cultural habits as if ours is inherently better. In that case yes it falls flat.

            But any Marxist can easily point out it is quite hard to have sex when the corporate culture encourages practices like “not leaving before the boss” or staying as late as possible despite the lack of actual work. These are all blatant issues but they’re of course capitalist issues where instead a lib will point to it just being an “Asian culture” problem.

    • CTHlurker [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      I will make 1 or 2 exceptions for the “muh birthrates” crowd, because I just listened to an absolutely heartbreaking interview with a school teacher in rural occupied korea who was lamenting that his school had been built in the 1960s and had rooms for 70-odd students per year, and his latest class had a total of 5 children in it, because cuck-Korea has had a total collapse in the amount of children that people are having. Obviously the proposed solution was not going to work, since Korea has banned all talk of improving society, but the story was still heartbreaking.

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      That reminded me of a really odd 8th grade social studies moment. I’m Canadian and the teacher was talking about our low birth rates leading to an aging population, and he concluded that we should try to take in more immigrants to make up for the gap. Dude was a passionate lib that said ‘democracy’ in italics with a hand gesture (even funnier cause it was in French and he’s Acadian descent, if you know the accent and speak French you’ll know, if not I can’t really get you there in text). We did a mock election on the day Harper got in, communists got 10% of the votes cause 3 of us voted for them.

      • FALGSConaut [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        My class (5th grade social studies) did the same thing when Harper was elected, except the cons won in a landslide since our teacher was an extreme right wing borderline libertarian guy who taught the class “conservatism is when you keep all the money you make, and liberalism is when you give it to the government in taxes, and the more taxes you pay the more liberal it gets”. I’ll admit I fell for that completely wrong explanation (in my defense I was 12) and “voted” conservative, but thank god I got my shit sorted out throughout highschool and into university

  • LGOrcStreetSamurai [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    This one gets me mad, but just the base assumption that our Asian comrades and homies are inherently good at STEM. To this day I still hear people that Asian dudes are good at math as if it were a profession passive bonus in a game. It’s just so other-ing to me. It’s just kinda one of those racists stereotypes that I wish died away.

  • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    The police.

    More specific answer, the very obvious racial stratification of any urban region in the US. How different demographics look from neighborhood to neighborhood and the clear relation to worse housing, education, everything really. But it seems very normalized.

    • soiejo [he/him,any]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Some people realize that the US is very big and lots of people immigrated to it, so of course it’s a very diverse place but can’t apply the same logic to China, Russia, India or Brazil.

      • timicin@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        to be fair, our education system teaches that everyone emigrated from those places; however, the one i can’t understand or be fair about is canada.

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    1 year ago

    I always thought it was strange how widely accepted a statement like “I don’t date [Race]” is. Like yeah, I get it, people have preferences and shit but you’d never hear anyone say something like “I don’t want to be friends with [Race]” because that’s unacceptably racist.

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        1 year ago

        The funniest version of this is the white guy who defends pursuing only Asian women as a preference but complains that it’s racist when they refuse to date him.

        I’ve known more than one of these.

        • arabiclearner [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          On the flip side there are lots of Asian and Asian American women with internalized racism that refuse to date Asian guys and themselves have white fever (to mirror the yellow fever that many white guys have). It’s just fucked all around.

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            I’ve been out of the dating game for a few years now, but when I was on dating sites and tinder, there were waaaaay too many Asian/Indian women with “No Asians, No Indians” right in the profile.

            Hope it’s better now.

            • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I mean my room mate is Desi, and she very much avoids dating men specifically of her cultural background owing to the traditional cultural views on proper womanhood, feminism, and queerness. I’m sure if a super progressive guy of her culture came around she’d consider dating him, but I don’t fault her for having a heuristic to avoid ending up in another abusive relationship.

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                On the one hand, I’m not in a place where I can question the lived experience of your roommate. On the other hand, a sexist-racist heuristic is still sexist and/or racist.

                If I, as a Chinese dude, stated publicly that I don’t want to date Chinese women because they’re hyper materialistic and status seeking (not a belief I hold irl), I would hope that people would speak up and tell me that that’s a fucked up thing to say.

                Or, to remove the gender and patriarchy angle from it, if I got mugged a few times by people of a certain racial group, it would still be really fucked up of me to claim that I have a heuristic where I avoid people of that race.

                • a_blanqui_slate [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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                  Speaking specifically to your last example, I don’t think that’s quite the same, as it would imply mugging is held up as an ideal social standard to adhere to in that certain racial group, which is doubtlessly untrue. In her particular case, there are social standards of manhood and a woman’s proper place that her ethnoreligious group promulgates, and she’s very clear she wouldn’t date anyone that adheres to those views, much like she wouldn’t date a republican for the very same reason. That’s going to, in effect, result in her not being willing to date a large portion of that group.

                  Like would it be racists or discriminatory (with all of negative connotation entailed) for an ex-Amish person to not want to deal with dating other people of Amish background?

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              Even worse, I’ve seen many people state “no rice, no spice.”

              • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
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                Sounds like the straight equivalent of “no blacks, no fats, no fems”. Came to call those ‘three no’s queers’; I threw out dating apps after more than half my locality where I used to live had that at the TOP of their profiles.

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                  1 year ago

                  Oh, these people were definitely not straight.

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              I grew up in an area that was like a third to half Asian or so.

              TV shows and the internet kept referencing this stereotype that “Asian people are shy”

              I was always like, shy?? What the fuck are they talking about? Some of the least shy people I know.

              Then I moved to a majority white area and I was like oh, oh yeah Asians actually are often literally shy here because they’re alienated by white people being fucking weird and racist assholes

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    1 year ago

    This is pretty insignificant, but it fucking drives me nuts. Whenever a couple goes somewhere and takes the woman’s car, the man drives. It’s like some silly power dynamic that is built into all M/F relationships in the US.

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    I’m sure there are corollaries in other geo-regions.

    This is pretty much how it works worldwide. Living in The Empire™ grants you that benefit. “The power of a US passport” is very well known. Every country could use American tourist money. It is absolutely another neo-colonial sort of relationship. I saw a documentary that shows that Jamaicans (or another Caribbean country) have a harder time getting into Jamaica than Americans do.

  • What_Religion_R_They [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    Safety and process rigor when people talk about heavy industry. Shit like “300 people fall in a mineshaft every day in China it’s normal” and “it’s india they don’t care about safety there” as some indictment of the contempt for safety because of culture or something.

    No it’s entirely based on your preconceived notions of these people. Truth is every plant ever is a massive safety concern, just that some are more amenable to cheap labour with lapses in safety, while others have shittons of money to throw to prevent all the disasters at the last moment. Seriously, it’s surprising just how much of our infrastructure is barely scraping by without incident