KDE: Welcome to Linux. Do you like the UI of Windows? Well we have an excellent offering for you if that’s your choice. There’s also other DEs that you may select from if that’s your choice.
Windows: Here’s an ad removed, fuck your choice.
I wish Microsoft kept Windows as a paid product, instead of making it effectively free (with things like free upgrades from older versions) and sticking ads all over the place.
Um Windows 11 Home costs 145€ from ms directly… Free updates yeah, but I’m guessing that’s so people aren’t stuck without updates eventually.
It’s because for Microsoft a user using Windows for free is better than a user using some other OS.
At least when the user uses Windows for free they still tell everyone at work and home that you have to run Windows because there’s just nothing else out there.
I doubt that is a reason most people switch. But I suppose it is a valid concern for Microsoft
Correct, but that’s cost is only if you buy windows 11 for a machine that has never had windows on it,
11 is free for any windows user that has 10. It also comes pre installed on most PCs you buy and very rarely is that cost of the license noted on the device your buying (unless you use the customize settings on an online store)
I’m also pretty sure there are still ways to upgrade to 10 from 7 and 8. Windows did this to make it harder for people to switch to a different OS because most people remember when they had to “pay” to upgrade to the latest version.
I believe they ended the free update from 7/8 to 10 when windows 11 was introduced. And I doubt ms is still selling windows 10 licenses.
Ah I just checked there used to be a loophole by going through a disability program or using an alternative authentication method provided by Microsoft that would activate the 10 license after the update. Looks like it was patched in September 2023 though.
It also comes pre installed on most PCs you buy
That’s because you’re paying the manufacturer for the licence and yes they likely get a discount but it’s still a lot of money you could save.
The average consumer either doesn’t go to the manufacturer site or doesn’t care enough to look into alternatives. They want something that gets their school/work done.
As some in the IT field who regularly deals with people that have a 4+ year degree and then tell me they are “tech illiterate” is astounding.
In the past they were hand held so much that the previous techs had a password book of everyone’s password for multiple applications.
Luckily with a lot of pushback from our current members about how insecure and dangerous that is that has changed, but we still have users even after 3 years since the change message us through a depreciated system asking for their password.
The average consumer either doesn’t go to the manufacturer site
Where does the average consumer get their computer then? Also I do know a few people using lubuntu instead of windows on their laptops.
Knowing a few people running lubuntu doesn’t make it an average. That is just a personal bias.
From experience almost all the computers I serviced over the last few years were either bought at Walmart, Best buy or Amazon that could also be a bias, but it spans over multiple cities with a good hundred clients The only time I started to see computers that were consistently bought from the manufacturer is in a business environment. But the specific one I’m in doesn’t support Linux at all within production.
yeah yeah windows bad. (i completely agree)
Windows serves ads? Where?
Edit: Why are people mad that I don’t see adverts on Windows?
Right just in the browser, start menu, notification panel, and whatever it’s called that pops up when you accidentally hover your cursor over the weather thing in the bottom right by the clock/calendar for .2ms too long.
Supposedly it’s being trial run in file explorer on 10/11 and will be present at launch on 12
Soon enough, the lock screen will play ads like a gas pump. Also, you have to watch the whole ad before you can unlock it.
In the settings menu they advertised Microsoft 365 too.
The only ads I see are the clickbait garbage MSN shit that the browser defaults to but I’ve disabled it. I don’t really see ads other than that. Then again I live in Europe and I upgraded from a purchased copy of Windows 10 so maybe there are lesser or greater degrees of advertising Microsoft puts on users depending on their location, version of Windows 11 etc.
i only use win 10 at work there i don’t see ads but things like it asking if i want edge as default and the search bar popping back into the task bar still happens
Win 11 has sponsored apps in the start menu. Also I think if web search is on it shows you little popups about bing, even in win 10.
The built-in antivirus complains if your OneDrive is full, showing the same “Action needed” icon as if you actually had a virus.
You get ads in windows? I thought linux users were supposed to be savy. That’s just sad, man.
question if a mechank can repair gas cars but can’t repair electric cars is he a bad mechanic?
I see zero adverts. What you describe is news to me. I wonder if it’s regional?
I use machines daily that are Win11 home and Win11 pro.
The only change I’ve made to Win11 is turn off web search in the start menu.
You don’t have to remove candy crush etc from your start menu? Lucky you. I certainly did.
My solution was to migrate to Windows 10/11 Enterprise. No ads, no nothing. The LTSC versions are even better but they’re a little too barebones for my use case. Keep in mind that those SKUs cannot be activated legally but as with anything: There are ways to circumvent that issue.
But… DAE Windows bad!?
Well, apparently you need to illegally use the enterprise edition to make it tolerable, so…
These links to install things like Candy Crush are only seen until you remove them. Once removed, you never see them again. This is no different to a lot of physical products and software products - including FireFox.
Software managers in some distros like Mint have ‘Featured’ apps that highlight some applications; applications like WhatsApp, Dropbox, Spotify, Skype, etc - smells like adverts to me.
I don’t use the Microsoft Store on Windows, nor do I use software managers on Linux. But what do you expect with these, it’s like going to eBay and complaining you see adverts.
And those install links are ads. MS doesn’t put them there with out benefit. Otherwise they might offer links to Steam or LibreOffice.
Imagine lol.
Interestingly you don’t address the mentioned product placements in Linux. Okay, ciao.
Okay. Original person this whole thread spawned from. I think you all went down the rabbit hole of “what’s an advert” and lost the entire point of my comment which is lack of choice.
But before I address that choice thing let’s address the “Ads” of Linux as you would call it. The “Featured” apps in a lot of software managers for Linux are selections that come from folks who manage the distro wanting to ensure that people know that “Linux can do that stuff that Windows can”. The “Feature” is not there to promote Dropbox and pray get some money, it’s there to point out to people “we can do that here as well, just FYI.”
So you may feel that the featured in the software managers is “ad” but you can ask the folks who run the distro how they arrived at what’s there and pretty much every case it’s so they can show that the distro has some feature parity with what people are expecting. Now you do mention Firefox and they are indeed hawking their own product. Interestingly, Mozilla maintains a page about just this thing. And it’s come up time and time again in mailinglists. Distro builders absolutely have the option to disable this in their repo, but by default build, it’s allowed and default options is how a lot of distros choose build the package. And it’s this later part that leads me to the point of my original comment.
CHOICE. Long story short because I feel I’ve already made this comment pretty long. You don’t get choice in Windows. There’s not some magic build that you can use to do away with all that Candy Crush and what not and still be this side of the TOS for the OS. And for Linux there is choice. It’s less about ads and more about “do you get a say in any of this?” With pretty much every Linux distro, you always have the option to become a contributor in some manner. (As an aside) This is actually the friction that a lot folks talk about with how RedHat and the Fedora project have been doing things lately. They’re sort of removing this option for the general public to have a line of commentary into the project. It’s a bit more complicated than that, but even with the notions that they’re toying with, it’s been met with pretty strong reactions against what they’re doing. And lots of distros have pointed out, that they are going to be doing the opposite of what RedHat is doing going forward on that front. (but I digress)
But that all said, looking at Windows. You don’t get a say in the build process. There’s not an option for you to rebuild the software stack to your liking for distribution between your machines. There’s what the SKU offers and then there’s just finding some other OS. And yes, that’s not ignoring that enterprise Windows allows pretty much all of these things to not be a thing via group policy objects in the active directory, but it still sticks to the core aspect of only if your SKU offers that option and you need to use that SKU in accordance with the TOS for that SKU. Those are your options. That’s the thing and while I’m sure the debate about “what constitutes an ad or not” is a noble one to have, I think you all lost the entire point of my original comment to debate this point that’s not really a point that anyone was making to begin with. And also your view on that point of “what’s an ad” is poorly informed from the Linux distro makers perspective. There’s a need to point out to users coming from Windows or Mac and trying “Linux” for the first time that “we can do that too”. That’s distinctly different from Microsoft’s goal of letting you know that you too can sign up for OneDrive.
I haven’t gone down a rabbit hole at all. There are only three very short and sweet comments from me on the subject.
I think it’s interesting that people frame it differently depending on whether it’s Linux or Windows. Product placements in Windows are called adverts. Product placements in Linux and software people run on Linux are called helping the user.
I’m just here to defend the position that Windows doesn’t serve adverts. At least to me on any of the Windows computers I’ve used in the past several years on both pro and home editions. I haven’t used any of these tricks or scripts that attempt to cripple Windows either. I’ve only disabled web search in the start menu because I think it’s a stupid feature. And yes there are product placements on the start menu by default but they’re never to be seen again after you delete them in the first 30 seconds on the very first boot up.
I use Linux and Windows, so i’m not a hardcore Windows user come here to troll. Although, it feels like I would have received less negativity if I had trolled. 😂
With Windows and adverts, maybe it’s a your mileage may vary situation based on your region or something. All I know is, I see zero adverts on Windows.
Have you ever gotten a windows update? (The sponsored bit came back regularly with most updates for me, I’ve barely used windows though.) Also by software managers I’m guessing you mean the ones with a GUI or do you install everything manually?
I’ve never experienced those links coming back. I only ever see them again when I buy a new computer/laptop or if I reinstall Windows.
And yeah I mean the GUI ones.
These are annoying as heck but I don’t consider them ads at all. Sure they probably launch some ad riddled page, but no direct ads in windows.
They can all be turned off and I am a bit annoyed that our desktop team hasn’t turned them off in our org’s standard images. I cringe anytime I have to remote in to troubleshoot with a user. Thankfully it isn’t very often.
DEFINITION FOR ADVERTISEMENT
noun
-
a paid announcement, as of goods for sale, in newspapers or magazines, on radio or television, or on the internet.
-
a public notice, especially in print.
-
the action of making generally known; a calling to the attention of the public
Just because it may not be trying to get you to buy Coca-Cola doesn’t mean it isn’t an ad.
-
Outside of EU.
Nono Win11 has sponsored apps automatically pinned to start menu (at the latest with the next update) and Win10 has weird things in the search bar promoting ms edge and other things. Also there’s some news thingy in the task bar that’s really annoying to disable (and I forget how to each time)
Shouldn’t you lose your linux membership card for something like this?
Linux police officers come into your house, and they take your membership!
And shave your neck
damn y’all don’t fuck around
And your pet penguin gets forcibly removed.
I need my neck shaved…
“This incident has been reported.”
Best
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In Soviet Russia, Arch BTW use you!
In Soviet Russia Astra BTW use you. Seeing how “import-replacement”(read as corpos GTFO with protectionism on top) law is (un)enforced, I lost hope that this will happen.
Chicken isn’t vegan?
Yeah, Windows does really like to copy Plasma, don’t they?
Oh wow, I’m glad to see there’s other people who are reminded of Plasma by Win 11. As someone who never installed or used it the first time I saw someone using it I made a comment about them using Linux. Until I realized…
Microsoft even copied KDE’s motto “Simple by default, powerful when needed” in their Windows 11 announcement.
How is that legal?
eeh, right, MS’s lawier army vs. KDE dev team. Right by money.
Copying stuff that enhances the UI/UX is something that I’m personally not opposed to but stealing another foundation’s motto is just lame and shameless.
This is hilarious. It really cut me deep. I don’t think I’ve seen Harold used in the Drake format like this either. The look of dejected shame is priceless.
Linux users realizing Windows is fine.
Windows is not “fine” aside from all the non-UI stuff, they’re UI is annoying and slow to me, they moved things behind extra clicks/commands to make it “clean”- stuff I actually use.
And then there’s the whole tracking usage to drop adds in your notification thing… which is a privacy nightmare.
I mean I’m cheering for Linux adoption too, but I’ve never received an ad beyond the initial install crapware app stubs. I do a sweep on the system settings, clean the junk, and I’m off to the races.
For the unsuspecting users, the privacy concerns are quite bad though.
On win 10 that crapware would reinstall on every feature update.
I havent had that happen, either - between 6 machines I manage and about the same number of reinstalls over the years, from 10 rtm to present 22H2 (or whatever its up to now); I’ve heard the claim by many, but my evidence is nil.
I keep seeing ads in my notifications on my windows installation for windows store items or bing.
Out of curiosity, do you have a screenshot? Unless I have always been the B/control group in A/B testing or something, it sounds super weird.
https://i.postimg.cc/NB5Lp7ZS/195124.png Its right here with the most recent update, and no obvious way to remove them. I don’t want OneDrive, I don’t want Office 365. Get it out of my face.
Truly atrocious smh
That’s not the notification tray, though? I mean bleh but you have to go searching for that, and it is somewhat relevant given that most users are logged into their MS account, and this is the accounts settings page… am I missing something?
No, I only boot into windows when I game, so its been a couple days since I’ve gotten one of the notifications.
isn’t the windows search bar a giant always on ad for edge and Bing?
also windows advertises a lot of their cloud/subscription services in notifications and settings to me
I suppose - I always disable it as part of my initial setup steps, I have actually never used it.
I’ve only seen shilling for 360 in the account panel, though. Never in the notification tray.
You can turn that off
yeah, through registry keys
no normal user is going to do that
Registry is just the settings panel in windows now
But the normal user can download random programs off the internet to do it for them
bloat at best, virus at worst
regedit isn’t hard enough to justify a registry editor app
+1
i have to use microshite crap every day.
It outdoes oracle at generating curse words.
and it gets worse. i’d take windows 2000 or nt4 over whatever shit they force on me at work.windows peaked at windows 7/xp then went down the drain
I liked some earlier win10 versions too but that was also before I tried Linux.
XP was a disaster, security-wise. Vista was better conceptually but the tech was undercooked and win7 was basically a re-skin of vista plus some extra maturity due to time.
Then, there’s the entirety of the situation around those releases. Microsoft was so mismanaged under Ballmer that even though Windows 7 was maybe their best OS, it completely missed the smartphone revolution and set them back about a decade until they could be re-spun as a cloud technologies company.
Imagine how huge they’d be if they had successfully leveraged their desktop and business dominance to force their way on top of the mobile world.
Tl:dr Win7 was both Microsoft’s best and worst product of all time.
I got a goddamn pop-up ad for an XBox controller. That really says all you need to know. When there are advertisements in the operating system, the operating system is fired.
I loved it when windows recently started giving me Xbox achievements (aka ads for Xbox) notifications just for playing any PC game on my computer. Like I’m trucking along, playing a steam game, and Xbox game bar shit, just has to wake up from its slumber to say: we randomly noticed you played something on this computer! Have you considered Xbox today?
It did something like that to me when I played Minecraft just not an Xbox ad. I think it was something about the game bar. (which I would absolutely love to disable if possible for just one user)
Eh, you only notice it when it’s bad, most of the time for most users it’s okay, though I generally argue they just make an unconscious decision to ignore most issues, even before trying out Linux I was flabbergasted at how people literally lose time and get flustered at a problem but then refuse to accept it as such.
Ya’ll are nuts. I logged in to a windows 10 pc after ~1 year so that I could flash a SD card. Windows immediately updates and literally bricked an ssd. How is that “general computing”
Some say the stress helps you grow a long white wizard beard.
Tbh, I thought Windows was fine too, until I had to use it last summer.
Is most of the UI fine? Yes, absolutely. It’s just the rest of the OS that sucks.
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Depends. what version of Windows? 10? I can agree for the most part that yeah, it’s fine. Most users loved 7, I…never paid it much mind (mostly because it was good, i guess? Got nothing bad to say about it, at least) and 8 was…Windows 8.
Windows 11 tho? Eh…the UI’s ok. I like it better than 10’s, at least. Ish. But whose bright idea was it to limit the number of items in the context menu? Or to hide the ribbon that, again, shows you more options? Or basically force ya to make a Microsoft account to even use the thing? (there’s apparantly a way to revert some of these things via messing with the Registry) Like, Windows 10 was fine like you said, dunno why 11 needed such drastic changes. And that’s without mentioning ads or the habit Windows has of reverting some of the setting you set after an update (tho that was a thing since 10, tbf. Still annoying)
I think Windows 10 was peak Windows. Controversial for many, I used a start screen too. The only thing I like more about the aesthetics of 11 than 10 is the window outlining with the color of your choice.
I’m not logged into my Microsoft account on Windows, nor do I see adverts. When you boot Windows 11 for the first time there is a trick into getting it to offer the option of a local account. I’m not sure why I don’t see adverts. The only mod I’ve done is to turn off web searching in the start menu. Where do you see adverts?
I’m inclined to agree with ya there since I have no strong feelings towards Windows 7 in particular and I’ve never tried earlier versions. Yeah, I can live with Windows 10 if i had no other choice or say in the matter, and it wasn’t my old install (see the other parenthesis if you care to know)
The ads are on the Start menu search. They’re not that bad as far as I remember, but i can see for others why’d they’d be annoying–in particular, those who paid for the software liscene already. it’s the small little annoyances when it came to Microsoft’s decisions (and the fact i wanna believe my Windows was just messed up from the word go…seriously, that thing was laggy as it was slow and just…strange is the best word I can describe using it, compared to other machines running Windows 10. So yeah, I already had one foot out the door as it was) and the fact I realized I had a choice that was NOT apple that moved me to Linux and it’s been pretty good, considering 95% of my needs are met on Linux
It was fine on Windows 7. Now you can’t open the start menu without 5 ads jumping into your face or open any app without a popup promoting a Microsoft alternative (note for the whoosh people, this is hyperbole). It’s even worse than the pop-up/pop-under phase of web ads.
Only the weirdly customized taskbar. Oh, wait, it isn’t customizable.
If Linux was fine, then I wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of looking for an alternative and taken the time to teach myself Linux. I don’t know anybody else who uses it so it’s not like somebody twisted my arm
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Something like Linux Mint is just as easy to install as Windows, if not easier. No tinkering, fixing, fussing with the terminal. It just works.
Also worth noting that modern smartphones manage RAM automatically. Having a bunch of apps “open” isn’t an issue.
honestly endeavouros and fedora (at least the i3 spin) are really easy too and you don’t even need a mouse… (yes windows does for some parts of the installer.)
It’s very constricting and now with ads and forces updates upon the user that cause more problems than they solve (at least in my experience) but other than that I think it’s ok, just not for me.
Pirate images all the way man
They don’t get updates? Or how would that help, genuinely curious for the three times a year I use windows.
The pro versions of windows don’t get as disrupted as windows home (the version everyone complains about because they don’t know there’s a difference). And the pirate ones I’m mentioning usually are iso images that have been preemptively unshitified as to not have most of the unnecessary bullshit out of the box but still get the security updates.
Used to be you had to pick and choose updates or get your system gimped for not being a legal copy but Microsoft kinda gave up on that when they went freemium
Ooh sounds nice.
did something happen? is plasma just windows now?
Some people don’t like that Plasma is usually (depending on the distro) offered with an aesthetic that reminds to windows, so it’s easier for newbies.
For me that’s a plus. I like that layout, which Windows also slowly starts to move away from now.
I think Windows more and more looks like a Plasma desktop though, like visually. That process is not super new and somewhat gradual over the versions but it is noticeable. There’s also some desktop features that made its way into Linux that felt very close to some that are present in Linux for many years.
No, it isn’t. File explore is dog slow (though wiggling the scrollbar helps WTF), they don’t support no-brainer UI niceties such as being able to change volume with the scrollwheel when hovering over the task bar icon, middle click on scrollbars to jump to a location still doesn’t work, no focus follows mouse, double clicks everywhere, settings are… where? There’s like 20 different different UI interfaces to different settings in Windows, half of them dating back to Windows 3.0.
Oh and can you fucking let me set start menu favourites without trying to second-guess what I want there. “Recently used?” I never fucking used that shit you put there and stuff I used isn’t in there.
As to Windows 11: I heard that you can’t have the task bar at the top. Why. Seems like nowadays MS is breaking more stuff than they fix. I was kinda miffed at KDE disabling alt+left/right click move/resize… but then I googled and they moved it to meta. Which is actually sensible. I ceased to be miffed. I probably should read release notes on updates it’s all there.
you get ads in kde plasma?
The UI of Windows 11 is fine, at least visually. Windows 8-10 were mostly just ugly. When it comes to configuration options, they lose even against Plasma from a couple years ago.
I have a Mac like UI btw., there is no chance of confusing my Plasma with any Windows :P
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It just so happens that I also use Arch x)
UI is fine… UX is a few good steps backward
I feel like the windows 11 ui looks really nice and it seems like they could do a lot with it, but at least last time I actually tried it it just felt kind of unfinished and there were a lot of weird bits where the theming looked wrong
Did KDE get a recent makeover? Last I saw, the window decoration still defaults to half rounded and half square. Devs can’t decide which one they like.
Next makeover is in February with Plasma 6.
Don’t worry, Plasma 6 will default to half square and hat rounded instead.
I assume the window decorations are like that because rounding the title bar is safe whereas rounding the bottom of the window has the potential to partly obscure content
make it like windows 2000 and i won’t have a problem
And you can do that with kde.
How do you even not notice?
He though that new widget with all the advertisements was really nice, and was on the way to thank whoever cleaned his system removing 3/4 of the items on the start menu.
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Hum, no, there are no ads on the start menu. They are all on the search widget and at the one near to the notifications.
But yeah, you can remove them if you find the option. They are hidden enough to guarantee most people won’t.
They’re dropping them as notifications in the system tray, though.
Yeah, there’s ways of stopping it, it’s patently ridiculous.
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I have. it popped up in a notification. it was for MS office even though I have never (and will never) use 365 willingly. If you’re using a organization-controlled version from your employeer, it’s possible they have it turned off and MS actually respected their group policy.
They didn’t for me. Specifically they turned “suggested” back on after I had turned it off. (and they seem to like doing that with settings all the freaking time)
Unity DE
I’d say that’s where you took a wrong turn, but really it was installing Ubuntu in the first place. I’ve given nameless crackheads a dollar that I trust more than Canonical.
It is patently ridiculous one time.
You remove them and they will never return.
But the Linux community really likes to rave on about it as if it is the worst infraction since the holocaust. Just look at this comment section.
The fact remains that OP used Windows for 45 minutes without even noticing. So it is really not that bad as many of you claim it is.
You remove them and they will never return.
until they revert your settings in the next update. Which happens. And then there’s the privacy invasion and intrusion they represent. You get to use what you want. But this is linuxmemes… you’re going to find more people hostile to MS here than you will in other vague computing forums. MS definitely deserves the hate, though. “Embrace. Extend. Extinguish” is still their motto.
No that does not happen with the ads. Those only appear during a fresh install and can be clicked away in a matter of seconds.
The only thing that happens with is sometimes Edge and recently the search bar once.
MS deserves hate sure, but not the unwarranted hate some of you have here in the comments.
Uh huh.
Sure it doesn’t. Microsoft never turns off settings with major updates….
…. Never….
In fact it- that is the advertisement in notifications- happened again with the most recent major update.
But go ahead, ignore my anecdote. I’m sure that makes it more comforting for you. That’s it. I’m just totally incompetent and don’t know how to turn off “suggested” notifications.
I’ll shut up since I clearly don’t know how to use a computer.
I think it’s pretty warranted. Why would you put ads in my OS in the first place? It’s not a free OS either so no excuse to put ads on it.
Yeah but irrational anger because Micro$oft bad is easier and gets more upvotes
They say they use linux and yet they went 45 minutes without opening a terminal? /doubt
There’s themes to make your OS seem nearly identical to Windows. Maybe they have that.
Or maybe it’s a meme
Exactly, IRL you see the windows boot screen and think I fucked up my grub again
Sounds like the good old fucked bootloader after system update
I actually had that happen during my last update from 23.04 to 23.10 a few days ago.
Put https://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files iso on Ventoy usb and fixed it with a few clicks.
Brilliant! rofl
*45 months later
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