- cross-posted to:
- europeanfederalists@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- europeanfederalists@lemmy.world
Donald Trump has suggested large numbers of Palestinians should leave Gaza to “just clean out” the whole strip, after ordering the US military to restart shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel.
The US president said he wanted Gaza residents to move to neighbouring nations, and that they could be displaced “temporarily or could be long-term”, after a phone call with Jordan’s King Abdullah on Saturday.
“I said to him: I’d love you to take on more because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess. I’d like him to take people,” Trump said, when asked about the call.
He also suggested Egypt as a destination for Gaza residents, and said he would raise the issue with President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi on Sunday.
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Not such a lad for learning from history, is he?
You know what? Maybe we should give them a nice place to live in the west bank. A prime Palestinian ground. Where, you ask? Oh don’t worry, we’ll find some other population over there to suppress.
2047: Oh no, the Palestinians are committing genocide! Let’s give the genocides population a different place to call home
And that’s why Kamala’s stance on Palestine never bothered me.
I knew that as bad as it was, Trump would be worse.
I was right.
Gaza was fucked under either presidential option and we all knew that. Now we also get to enjoy getting fucked by Trump at home and hand the right the country. Other countries get to get bullied like Canada, Colombia, Greenland, Panama, and who knows who else and to what insane degree. Plus, Gaza will get to deal with a president that doesn’t bend to protest pressures at all and gives 0 fucks about humanitarian issues. We sure showed Biden for being an AIPAC puppet like the rest of the government. This is why the right has taken our government over. We constantly in fight and ignore realities for ideological purity while the right unites under the broad strokes of their agenda. When no option has the desired outcome, sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.
Hey but while Im being lead into a camp a bunch leftists here can feel good knowing they did the “right” thing by not opposing fascists
Harris’ was to let them be slaughtered in place…
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It didn’t bother you because you’re a self-centered person who only care about her own well-being. My friend died in Beyrouth.
Yeah because I guess its better to allow a marginalized people to be tortured, raped and killed. I guess its their fault for being born in that part of the world and being of a certain background.
Its never free free to do the right thing. Do not blame the Lebanese government choosing to support Palestine for creating the American-funded missiles that struck your friend down.
I do not understand how you can seriously argue that it is the fault of the Palestinian people that your friend was murdered by an American missile fired on behalf of the Israeli government.
As someone who’s lost friends to horrible people who do horrible things, please know that I say this with a heavy heart.
It’s rare that we’re able to save everyone, especially with stakes this high.
That is not what I said at all. I’m not sacrificing anyone, I’m saying that there’s no option we can take that allows for absolutely no one to die.
Unless you expect that I collect the 7 Chaos Emerald, turn into a Super Being, and destroy all of Israel’s munitions while a golden goddess, but the Chaos Emeralds aren’t real so there goes that option.
Life isn’t a fantasy, it’s tough, people die, and there’s not a god damn thing we can do about it. If there was, I’d be doing it.
No, no it doesn’t. I am admitting that there’s nothing I can do to improve an unfortunate situation, especially when I have my own problems.
I think the mistake you’re making here is you assume there’s something I can do.
I’m not a politician, I don’t have the authority to declare Happy Birthday.
If I were a congresswoman or some shit, yeah I’d filibuster bills that give Israel more weapons and demand we focus on bringing peace to Palestine, I would refuse to vote for any bill that gives one red cent to the zionists, especially when that money would be better used guaranteeing healthcare for our citizens.
I am a private citizen, I am a TRANSGENDER private citizen living in the south, my immediate concern is to get rid of the Republicans because they literally want to kill me.
At no point have I ever expressed a lack of concern for Palestine, just an admittance that there’s nothing I can do for them. I sincerely have no idea what it is you want from me.
I am a private citizen, I am a TRANSGENDER private citizen living in the south, my immediate concern is to get rid of the Republicans because they literally want to kill me.
Yes I know but please stop virtue signalling about Palestine that is all being asked of you.
Americans paid for the firebombed that killed her.
I hate you.
The fact the other side is EVEN WORSE doens’t make your side less bad, idiot.
Uh, it absolutely does, and the fact that you called someone an idiot while spewing such warped logic is hilarious.
I’m on the side that hands out awful tasting licorice candy. You are on the side that punches people in the face.
If you can’t understand logic this simple, no wonder this country is screwed.
Re-read what you wrote, it contradicts itself.
One side being even worse makes the other side less bad.
By definition, one side being worse means the other side is automatically less bad.
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Damn that’s crazy. What do you want bro to do about it? You want 'em to overthrow the american government?
If you had to pick between John Doe with a knife, Jim Doe with 2000lbs of explosives, or to have no say in the matter, which would you pick?
I really don’t understand why I need to explain this to you, but if there are only two options, the less bad one is the better option.
Right? It’s like the
“Oh well if you stop mass murderers from having guns, aren’t they just gonna use knives instead”
To that I say “Unless you’re Simon Belmont slaughtering waves of Dracula’s minions, I don’t think you’re gonna get anywhere near as high of a body count throwing knives at people.”
Very much enjoy the nerd culture references
That’s a false equivalence.
John Doe’s actions have no connection to his brothers.
Here, either Trump or Harris was going to be the President. There was no action I could take that would have allowed a third party to enter that equation.
Even if me and the rest of America voted for Jill Stein, the Electoral College would still give the votes to Trump or Kamala.
If I were in a position where I could snap my fingers and bar Trump and Harris from entering politics again, then Bernie Sanders would be in the White House, Nethanyu would be awaiting his court date, and Israel would be paying reperations to Palestine.
But, I’m not Thanos and the only gauntlet I have is an old Power Glove in a box somewhere next to a broken PSP and a physical copy of Super Metroid.
You worded that poorly. You’re trying to say two sides performing evil acts are both evil, even if one side is more evil than the other.
Right?
Except it is a fact that there ARE degrees of “evil”, where one side has the ability to listen to reason while the other will escalate the worst outcome.
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Uh, yeah it does. It is less bad than the only other option.
I think that for every bomb dropped elsewhere in the world on civilians, they should have to bomb Washington DC. It’s only fair
“Clean out”, what a wording. So they no longer have any problem saying they support genocide.
Just some light ethnic cleaning.
He should give maralago to the Indian tribe that used to live there.
Congrats leftists! You solved Palestine! We just won’t have one!
Seems odd to blame leftists instead of the people supporting, supplying, and carrying out the genocide.
Correct they’re not really leftists. Tankies who consumed too much Zionist and Russian propaganda.
Just #Luigi the entire Israeli Government and genocide is over
You can say murder. Or assassinate. Or kill. Man up.
The number of people trying to argue that not voting was legitmate is baffling.
What was biden/kamala gonna do better?
They weren’t going to put immigrants in camps. I as a gay man didn’t have to worry about the sane had Harris won.
But at least some Marxists have a sense of moral superiority
What did trump do better?
He did exactly the same as I would expect from Biden or kamala. Disrespect for Palestinians is bipartisan this past election had no bearing on the issue
Biden or Harris would have suggested ethnic cleansing as a solution? Fucking hell .ml users are just as deluded as MAGAts.
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Yes because under Biden the thing was thriving… America lesser evil political system is making you so braindead it is crazy
So is your solution to give the country to the right and hope for revolution? Super cool for all the people here and abroad who have to suffer under revved up American fascism, including Gaza. Counting on that very slow train maybe pulling into the station seems like a solid plan.
I’m just saying blaming the voter for not voting instead of the political offer or the people in power and system is braindead
No, it’s brain dead to think you can oppose a corrupt entrenched power structure by taking your ball and going home. Elections alone won’t fix shit. Sitting them out to let in MAGA fascism definitely isn’t going to do it. Change takes decades, but if you give power to the people who will oppress harder and more readily, you are just ensuring more people get hurt in the process. The democrats at least bow to pressure some. Trump wants to shoot protestors and made sure to appoint people down with that. So yeah, I’m blaming really naive voters along with blaming our corrupt system not offering better options. Hate to tell you, but life is more nuanced than straight good and evil.
How long until we hear about the plans for Dump Tower Gaza? Anyone wanna take a guess?
Trump yet again pushing for genocide
That should have been the header
Here are my thoughts:
- Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza since day 1, they just pick up the pace sometimes
- Every US president this century has enabled this
- Biden and Harris were all on board with the current round of fast genocide and they should be remembered for it
- Trump pretends to be anti-war but emboldened this shit by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem in 2018 or 19
- Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, as evidenced by meeting him during the campaign last year
- Any ceasefire supposedly happening right now is entirely to give Trump good press. He’s going to give Israel even more support for their imperialist bullshit than Biden did and Harris would have
- Because Trump won, the federal government is going after immigrants, nonwhite people, LGBT people, etc, and is going to further tear the good parts of the government down
I’m pretty disillusioned with the Democrats between the imperialism and almost completely giving in to the fascist takeover, but I wouldn’t be looking to get out of the country if Harris had won, so thanks for that if you could have voted and didn’t.
Exactly. Why can’t people vote for the lesser evil in the short term and push for change after the election too. There was no scenario where the protest vote didn’t give us a far worse option. As bad as Biden was on Gaza, he capitulated more than Trump ever will. Plus, one issue voting is just an insane mindset in a winner take all electoral system like America.
Honestly. And I mean honestly.
Why is America so be bed with Israel? Is it just purely a tactical location or is there way more underhand shit we can’t talk about because if you call someone out for doing something they shouldn’t and they are Jewish then you’re a Nazi?
People must be getting bribes and threats and more people in the government must care about Israel than the number of people that care about Palestinian.
Surely people don’t care that much about that patch of sand.
AIPAC Lobby money. America is very corrupt.
Are you asking why they are in bed with Israel? It’s our window into directly destabilizing the middle east.
Don’t worry, I voted… for the non-genocidal actual progressive candidate, Jill Stein.
You mean the Russian plant?
Better than a CUFI/AIPAC owned candidate
No, a very intelligent American doctorate with a history in grassroots progressivism that led in the polls among Palestinians & Arab Americans. You do respect Palestinians & their votes, right?
This is actually antisemitic. Accuse the one Jewish candidate of being a foreign agent.
Not if she is.
Don’t fall into their trap. It is important to point out that it isn’t antisemitic either way, because your assertion had absolutely nothing to do with her religious or ethnic background.
The only foreign agents are those on AIPAC’s payroll
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
Adelson donated much more to Trump than aipac has in decades
Trump thanks you for your service.
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos
No, he thanks you & Kamala. Are you pleased with yourself & how things turned out?
Eww
Eww to genocidal Kamala voters
lololol
Where do you send illegal immigrants if their country of origin no longer exists?
There was a movie about a guy stuck in an airport, I think it was called Die Hard 2.
‘He’s in the wrong place, for a long time.’
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
I really hope you’re happy that your conscience is clean now the guy who’s main spokesman said Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’ and who himself declared it ‘could be better than Monaco’, clearly with an eye towards beachfront real estate, has the power to make that happen for his own gain.
This was entirely predictable, and we told you this would happen. Trump told you so himself. The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch, but Kamala absolutely wasn’t looking at the situation as to how she could personally profit through real estate development if the Palestinians were just wiped off the map as quickly as possible. Trump likely had the choicest property mapped out, with property developers already submitting proposals.
If you abstained because of both-sides re Israel, fuck you. You at best were played and at worst helped to play others, and now we ALL get to suffer.
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
Sound like you still haven’t acknowledged the ongoing genocide or understand what is going on in gaza. There’s no such thing as genocide or genocide++ the same way there’s no holocaust or holocaust++. People who chose not to support any scum with blood on their hands have no guilt, they did the correct thing. Assuming you supported the red and blue parties you have more guilt than everyone else, you gave your vote to murderers. Instead of telling you to go fuck off like you did i’m going encourage you to document yourself on what’s going on in gaza and how governments worldwide are allowing it to happen.
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do better than this?
The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch
Totally.
Enthusiastically helping Israel stack bodies for four years was definitely imperfect.
Of everything I said, that’s the part you decided to focus on?
e: not that trump had said he’d glass the region to build hotels?
All this finger wagging because people criticized democrats sending billions in weapons which were used in the genocide? Somehow it’s protestors fault in this scenario.
The degree to which you bend over backwards to support the legitimacy of a system where BOTH SIDES of the two-party system fully support israel is astonishing. You speak of others getting played, yet here you are getting played into thinking you can make a difference in a government that has fully supported israel since its establishment regardless of who is in power.
Genocide and Genocide++, if you admit those are the two major parties in the US then why do you blame people like me who voted third party?
Because it’s an effective vote for Genocide++
There’s a chance that Trump can terminally weaken the US. He can’t wage a war on the entire world. The Democrats were focused on destroying the Middle East. The Republicans are less focused and more chaotic.
And why can’t they wage war on the world? What are we gonna do about?
And seems Trump is laser focused on erasing Palestine and giving his donors everything they promised.
And why can’t they wage war on the world? What are we gonna do about?
Probably terrorism. Why?
600-900 aid trucks are entering Gaza every day and the bombs have stopped falling.
Trump talks shit a lot, but until he actually does something the situation now is far better than it was under Biden.
You’re kidding, right? You think that aid is because of trump, when you’re responding in an article that says his stated motives are the opposite of that?
Much of that aid was already secured before he took office. Shit takes time – especially in a war zone. Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues. The US has been giving aid to many places that will continue for a short while until the new policies filter through.
Listen to what the new moron-in-chief says, and notice that some policies take a bit of time to take effect. Like the US economy, for instance. Large systems don’t turn on a dime.
Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues.
Palestinians can get aid from elsewhere. They have rich neighbors. We just need the aid trucks to get in and now they are.
I certainly hope so.
They could have gotten that aid in any time they wanted. It doesn’t just take time, it takes political will. The trucks were already there and the aid was all ready to go, they just had to be let in the border by the Zionist entity. They needed a ceasefire.
I’ll definitely be watching what happens over the next weeks and months, but how about we actually do that instead of catastrophize every time the moron in chief says something stupid that he can’t enforce? Forcing Egypt and Jordan to take 1.5-2 million refugees is about as likely as Trump actually annexing Greenland. This shit isn’t happening.
The fascists have done an incredible job lulling people into a false sense of security with “Trump just says outrageous things to trigger the libs he’ll never actually do anything”.
Agreed 100%. If all Democrats do for the next four years is scream the sky is falling then they will lose even more voters in 2028. You don’t run a pro-genocide candidate & parade around with the Cheney’s if the sky is falling. That is called trying to lose.
They will double down and keep screaming the sky is falling and whoever disagrees with them will be labeled Nazi/Fascist.
Can you elaborate?
What about Trump’s arrival / Biden’s departure has enabled 900 aid trucks to start rolling into Gaza every day ?
The ceasefire? Before that, basically no aid was coming in.
You mean the pointless political charade to try and make trump look good as he proceeds to further enable and promote the genocide?
The genocide, at the moment, has entered a new phase without bombs or starvation. Let’s be clear: the genocide didn’t start on Oct 7th and it didn’t end with the ceasefire. Israel has always been a genocidal entity. We are just in a less violent phase.
But even if this ceasefire is political it’s hardly a “charade”. It’s a real ceasefire! It’s really saving people’s lives! Without it, I don’t believe Gaza would have survived the winter - too much sickness and starvation. People are living right now who would otherwise be dead.
Until Trump actually does something the situation is better now than it was under Biden.
It’s fascinating how the situation in Gaza is objectively better (for now), and you sound almost disappointed because it wasn’t Joe Biden who achieved it. (And in fact, Joe kept the genocide going until the very last day of his presidency.)
The ceasefire was agreed under Biden, before the inauguration… Biden is not good for Palestine, but Trump is not better.
Yeah, but it was pressure from Trump that achieved it, because when Israel told Biden to jump, he did as he was told.
Hence why he earned the moniker: Genocide Joe.
All these comments thinking this is a gotcha moment for people who didn’t vote for the Democrats.
Biden supported the last 15 months of genocide, supplied, the weapons, political cover and support.
The only reason Gaza hasn’t been totally emptied is because Egypt refused to accept millions of refugees.
Trump is only saying what the Democrats believe but were too disingenuous to admit.
I guess it’s time for all the “protest voters” to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.
Of course that’s if they remember about Palestine. A shiny red ball might have rolled past and distracted them.
It’s time for people to understand that the blue and red party in america are the same shit and voting someone else or not supporting the government is the only way to make a change.
Your country is sending bombs to kill innocent people, asshole
Stop trolling
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do that woulda been better than this?
@generalemergency,
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?Do your posts like this one make you feel better about yourself? Thats why you’re posting isnt it. You told yourself you ‘held your nose’ while voting but you didnt really hold your nose at all. You were happy to drop every semblence of basic human morality and dignity in order to win-- and then you lost anyway.. Now you’re angry at those on your own side who didnt shit their own bed and roll around in it like you did.
To win at all in the future and reclaim the demographic losses, the dems need to admit that what was done in Plaestine was wrong. They need to admit Biden and Harris both were not doing their job and not representing the working class, but were simply chasing corporate and special interest campaign dollars. If the party can do that it might survive. Otherwise its probably dead, becuase No one thinks the democrats stand for anything, and the rage evident at the elites related to Luigi’s prosecution is increasingly the response toward out of touch dem leaders. No one supports corporatists so get your shit together.
It’s funny you think there will be legitimate elections in 4 years. I mean Republicans are already pushing ways to give Trump a third term. So like, congrats on having Gaza screwed even harder while simultaneously throwing away any semblance of democracy?
At least the corporate corrupt Dems gave a small window for changing things democratically while not screwing over Trans people in the USA as well.
By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail, not prevented any evil from occuring.
Well, at least you can whine about how other people voted, and that’ll make you feel better, I guess.
Nah, but I can live with knowing I at least tried to stop literal Nazis from gaining absolute power.
Can you say the same?
Do you think Musk wouldn’t pay Democrat to get what he wanted? He literally manage to get his wealth while 2 Democrat presidents held office.
I believe he just change teams because it was expected after Biden left the race.
I do believe he knew before it is official that Biden would drop and Trump assassination attempt and moment was clear that he will get the same votes as before so he diced to get favor early.
Some timeline:
Trump assassination attempt was on July 13, 2024
Public Musk endorsement was on the same day.
Biden left the race on July 21, 2024
I do believe that while he might not be publicly a Nazi he will get what he need throughout Democrat president based on his history.
That you still say he’s not publicly a Nazi says everything.
It’s genuinely saddening to see you’re still here parroting these lines after the bots have long since packed up and gone home.
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Dear me.
As a matter of fact, I’ve never been to Germany or anywhere in Europe for that matter.
I’m Australian, and just happen to be using a server with a .de TLD.
ah australia.
The country with concentration camps in East timor, right?
Hah. We’ve never had “concentration camps”, that’s a specific term referring to a specific thing.
It’s true that Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers in recent decades has a lot to criticise.
I’m not really certain why you’re so fixated on my heritage and the associated ethical misadventures of my compatriots?
‘Why do you care that I’m a white south African from apartheid days when you’re accusing me of being racist? What does that matter?’
The party with the best option to beat trump is still walking around with no future because it has its head up its own arse. They cant admit that abandoning the working class and embracing zionist murder for some campaign cash is going to keep them from winning in the future. And Hasbara is still paying its trolls, clearly.
What makes you think bots left? They are probably low cost to run once theyve been set up. By bots maybe you mean the opinions you dont like dont post as much? Yeah everyone feels defeated and hopeless. Most of my friends wont read the news anymore. I dont blame them.
It’s very obvious to everyone that Palestinians are much worse off now.
Except to the Palestinians who aren’t being massacred like they were for the ceasefire. Pretty common for Democrats to say things like this though… what was it that Biden said, “You ain’t black unless you vote for me!”
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?
The guy you’re responding to never said that. You’ve discredited your entire comment in the first sentence and there’s no reason to even bother reading the rest of whatever you wrote.
My dood, it is a two party system. Both parties sucked shit when it came to this issue, and the DNC lost votes due to this fact (as one side seems to like some genocide anyway). This issue across both awful parties is implied in the first post and is countered in the “discredited” comment, you know with the whole “held your nose” line. Guess you did not read that far…
You don’t have to agree with the statement, but if you read that “discredited” comment you would see both of you; Know the worse party of the two won, and more importantly one of you seems to have an idea on how not to have the same thing happen again.
My dood, when he opens with a flat out lie about what the guy he’s responding to said, I’m not going to bother reading the rest of it. I thought that I made that pretty clear. So trying to have a discussion about the rest of what he had to say isn’t going to be very productive.
Yes, it’s a two party system and both sucked on this issue. But one sucks a whole fucking lot more on it and also sucks on literally every other issue there is. And I’m not going to coddle a bunch of people who can’t see that.
My dood, I am telling you they did not open with a flat out lie about the comment they are replying to. They are making a point you don’t like, sure! But no where was there a lie about what people said, just inferences made.
Like cool, you dislike what was said, but spending more time defending your stance of not reading then just reading and downvoting is wild and silly.
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We did it Patrick! We saved Palestine!
By your comment, should we assume you’re the ones who thought that a known racist and islamophobe with ties with Israel would be the best option for Palestinians?
Well, Palestine won’t exist in the next election cycle. What lies will you trust next?
Are you talking about trump or biden? Not very clear
Another ml user defending Trump. Definitely Tankies are fascist best
lap dogsfriends.
I guess some people aren’t ready to admit their mistakes.
The irony of you losers high handing people. You lot lost this last election.
Who do you think you are? You’re right down here in the mud with the rest of us. The party brand is in absolute tatters and trust in it has never been lower. Heck of a job. And then you try to lecture people? Its absurd.
If you voted for genocide…that was a mistake.
I didn’t vote for genocide. What did you do?
I didn’t vote for genocide.
Do you feel ok about that in the context of what’s about to happen in Palestine?
Do I feel okay about voting for an anti-genocide candidate? Of course. Why wouldn’t I?
The question is: why are so many people okay voting for a pro-genocide candidate?
We shouldn’t even be having this conversation. No Democratic candidate should be supporting genocide. Ever. And nobody should be defending her!
Why wouldn’t I?
Because you’ve enabled Trump to grind palestinians into the dust.
Who do you think Palestinians wanted to win the election?
There’s a ceasefire right now because of Trump. How many Palestinians do you think died while the Biden admin was vetoing the UN security council to stop the genocide?
Yes we get it, you just made sure the literal Nazis got power and gave Israel the means to 100% Speedrun the genocide.
One of two people was going to win this election and unless you voted for the other one, you helped elect Trump.
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It wasn’t inaction. I voted for Jill Stein.
So you didn’t do anything to avoid a Trump presidency. That’s inaction.
Same here bro, an actual progressive candidate who had no problem saying no to genocide unlike most of the Democrats here. What did Kamala do? She endorsed a smear ad against her:
No, Kamala helped Trump:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
Those 29% are fucking idiots. Trump is making things worse exactly like everyone with an IQ above room temperature said he would.
What’s worse than carpet bombing and starving entire populations, you heartless scum?
Undecided voter to Democrats… “Why do you support genocide?” Democrats, “Listen here you fucking idiot. I hope you get cancer for questioning us. Do as we say you fascist! You ain’t black if you don’t vote for us.”
Reeeeeeeeeally hard to stop my self from screaming “I fucking told you so” to all the idiots who insisted Trump would be better for the situation right now
This is literally the exact thing I’ve been trying to point out for months
Saying, “I told you so” has zero affect. This people didn’t reason themselves into their positions and will refuse any reason that would cause them to change their minds.
It was clear months ago these were smart people. Their utter lack of doubt continues to be the reddest of flags.
How would Kamala have been better for Palestine?
Nobody I know thought Trump would be better for Gaza. Just that Genocide is the worst situation and it was already being ignored.
But now we get more death! Immigrants, trans people, FEMA, it’s like a Gatcha game of who else gets to suffer. We really taught them a lesson
The dem leadership knew the whole time exactly how to win the election but werent willing to pay the price in thwarting AIPAC to secure that win. All they had to do was recognize the genocide a few days before the election and follow existing laws on it, and acknowledge that many Americans are struggling. They chose to roll the dice instead.
“I did not pull the lever in the trolly problem and it was the dems fault”
I pointed this out to a dem apologist on bluesky and their response was that ending the genocide on its own wouldn’t have won the election.
Motherfucker, what?! Quite apart from the fact that ending a genocide shouldn’t be evaluated on how likely it is to win an election, it is the right thing to do and it would have helped.
But the dems decided that continuing the genocide was more important than improving their chances of beating Trump. Assuming they believe what we were told that Trump would be worse at the genocide, that means the dems decided to continue the genocide and also risk worse genocide. So they just chose genocide.
And now people are still trying to get up on their high horses about this shit.
Next time they say that stupid shit, share things like this with them:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
If you’re willing to let one group be subject to genocide, then all groups are eligible. You know how it goes, “first they came for[…]”
Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?
No, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be okay with giving up one group while trying to use the rest of the groups as a shield for excusing genocide.
But… I’m not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.
What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It’s easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?
Why have to bother yourself with harm reduction when you can choose to do nothing and passively allow things to get worse? That would be asking too much.
Maybe geopolitics is more complicated than the anti-Kamala protest voters have been lead to believe…
If your “complicated” world view means justifying genocide then it’s just a justification of murder.
Who did you vote for who wasn’t justifying a genocide?
Oh they both were, I’m just being real about what that means.
Gotcha, so you voted for one anyway?
I did
It certainly is. Unfortunately for all of us, it’s more complicated than the Dems and “lesser of two evil” voters (of which I was one) have been lead to believe as well.
Or they would have… you know… Won.
But hey, if we want to learn the wrong lesson from this again, far be it from me to stop us.
Genocide is the worst situation
Very obviously a false dichotomy.
Do you think Palestinians wanted Trump to win?
They want peace. Harris made no move to say she would stop the genocide.
A lame deflection.
You talked about what they wanted. They do not care who the president of the United States is. They care about peace.
“Peace” isn’t really an objective given that you’d have Peace the day after you ground palestinians into the dust.
Netanyahu certainly cares who the president of the United States is, who do you think he wants to be president?
By you, yes. Palestinians knew they didn’t want Harris to win. Guess next time you’ll support their candidate, Jill Stein, if you actually care about what they want.
they didn’t want Harris to win.
Oh, silly me. So they wanted Trump to win?
No, Kamala & the establishment left wanted Trump to win. Palestinians wanted Jill Stein, an actual progressive that fought for them.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
The plan was always their. They would get away with it even if it was biden or harris would won
It was Israel’s plan yes, not official us policy like now.
What would you make think biden or harris would have blocked such a plan?
I mean the real question is, yes, genocide doesn’t stop either way. But which option lends itself to less oppression of minorities in the US itself? I mean if both sides genocide, but one genocidal side doesn’t want to fuck over trans people, but wouldn’t you choose the side that doesn’t fuck over trans people?
The trans bans are just a test as they work their way toward Hispanic, Muslim, and eventually everyone without a red hat on bans.
Because they already were. Only siths and maga deal in absolutes. Which are you?
Maybe he is someone who saw this last loss coming and sees further losses coming unless the dems can start doing the right thing again and adopting an actual effing platform that people will vote for. Remember doing the right thing? When did you abandon the idea of pressuring our leaders to do the right thing?
Because it’s the cowards way out at the expense of the Palestinians. Doubt there’ll be much left by next cycle
Oh?
So you’re ready to disavow Bidens support for zionists and agree that it was and is wrong, and that we cant support anyone who does that anymore?Welcome to the new democratic party, brother. Grab a shovel, theres a lot of corrupt DNC trash to haul to the curb for garbage collection.
They never was. Every time the US say to Israel to not do something Israel does it and then the US give them more bomb and aids and diplomatic protection.
The copium is thinking that Biden,harris and trump wouldn’t try to outcompete each other is supporting Isrsel
Can we keep this cringe Funkopop liberalism on Reddit please.
It’s called objectivity sweetie and I’m an anarchist ✌️
you shouldnt start calling people “sweetie” or this devolves into a slapfight.
That what you want? To shut conversation down? And for an “anarchist” you sure are bending over to DNC corporatist hierarchy. Little bit suspicious.
You think Joe Biden who said that he was a fervent Zionist and that nobody in US history been more of an ally to Israel than him, and Kamala Harris who basically said she’d do everything he would have done, we’re going to reign in Israel? Good Lord man there’s a difference between optimism and naivete and you have crossed it.
And yet, it got much worse almost instantly. Weird that.
Is there a difference?
Actually, yes. For the Palestinians anyway.
Trump is worse for saying the quiet part out loud, but the actions by all administrations since the establishment of israel show that this plan by israel is being followed regardless of what the president says out loud.
Because trump is more vocal, resistance and people could better predict what he could do and try to organize and find way to stop him even partially
I don’t think that matters. Israeli officials themselves have said their plans out loud. It’s already well known that they’re going for a full ethnic cleansing which includes genocide and mass relocation because they want all of Palestine and more (which they refer to as “Greater Israel”). There have been some actions taken, including by the ICC (which Biden wrote off as “outrageous”) and all those student protests which were forcibly silenced. Ultimately we need someone with power to do something. Trump certainly won’t do anything to stop it, in fact he openly encourages it. Sadly democrats won’t do anything either, even if they’re more silent on the subject or let a small handful of democrats speak out a bit (but not too much, or they get censured).
The US is the biggest power behind Israel and no one dares stand up to the US. If both of the biggest parties (and only ones that will ever get any power) agree to not do anything to stop it, then it will just continue getting worse and worse.
Yemen dared. Freedom fighter dares. But it is easy to call them terrorist while killing at least 100k mostly kids and children.
They can still argue that situation is better now but it depends upon a very specific meaning of “better” that doesn’t consider the Palestinian people’s welfare at all.
He secured a ceasefire, which is more than Biden could do. But ultimately, is he better? I don’t think so. I’m not sure he’s any worse, either. I wish we had better options.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
Note that the ceasefire is literally identical to the one the US Department of State proposed the better part of a year ago. The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more. This falls in the same category as Nixon when when he pulled a very similar ploy with Vietnam.
Also the same category as Reagan’s election and the embassy hostages + Iran contra affair. It’s part of the standard republican playbook now.
He’s certainly worse, Biden didn’t piss off Canada and Mexico immediately.
I can’t really speak on internal US policies, i.e. whether Biden’s inaction or Trump’s wild actions are overall worse for the nation but internationally, Trump is far far far worse.
It’s not even a competition.
I’m talking about Palestine only.
Why didn’t you have an issue with it at any point in the past 15 months?
I did. I still do. What’s your point?
You sure? It sure seems like your first thought here is “how can I rub this in the faces of those i feel like blaming for this” judging by your comment. You seem to want to retroactively remove Biden and Harris’ culpability in bringing us to this point.
Hur dur genius nostradamus here.
Nobody who watched genocide joe support genocide for over a year had any hope for 2025 and beyond.
Few people argued for Trump being better. Biden bombed Gaza to rubble. Trump comes in and does the paperwork. Biden is not absolved.
In no way shape or form am I defending Biden here. His position was indefensible.
Biden didn’t bomb Gaza genius.
I must have imagined those American bombs dropped by American made planes being sent by Biden.
He asked Netanyahu nicely to not carpet bomb Gaza with them. That absolves him of it all.
I must have missed the part where Biden was put in charge of Israel’s military. You .ml folks are simpletons. 🙄
Come on, don’t act like you don’t know what he mean. He just mean thst Biden he is responsible by giving arms and diplomatic protection so Israel can bomb gaza
I know what he means and he’s wrong and so are you. Israel bombed Gaza. Full stop. Biden never had the power to stop it. Want to be angry at someone, choose the military industrial complex at the heart of America’s economy. The president only works for them, no matter his name or party.
Yeah he have no power at all to the point of bypassing the congress to give melitary aid to israel.
If Israel relies on US weapons, then yes the US has the power to stop it, by not supplying the weapons.
We know the weapons are going to be used for genocide. Supplying them is as good as pulling the trigger ourselves.
Is Trump in charge of Israel’s military now because that’s the only way for your comment to make any sense.
No Netanyahu is n charge of Israel’s military. That is my point.
Cranakis,
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/13/us-presidents-red-lines-israel
Eisenhauer, GHW Bush, and Reagan all stopped Israel’s zionist violence dead cold with phone calls, in pretty much this exact same situation. Its well established history that you either aren’t aware of or wont acknowledge-- neither possibility reflecting well on you.
The US is in charge of Netanyahu.
When I was younger I played Skyrim, it seemed very unrealistic that NPCs though the wind shot them with an arrow, but seeing you I think they had quite good AI actually
“Hur durr, I gottem.”
