- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
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All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Based 👌❤️
I am .NL not .ML please don’t hate on me dyslexic lemmys
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
I don’t care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
You are on the wrong instance for that
I like how this comment would work regardless of the instance they’re on
woah.
woah?
It’s short for “woke tuah [girl]”
yeah I was echoing the meme. silly joke
woah
Instance Filters! Couple of clicks and it’s like they never existed.
Honestly, that’s just sticking your head in the sand. Newcomers aren’t going to have those filters. Their Tankie BS should be called out every time.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
Why tho? I’m having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
You get banned for stating things like “Russia invaded Ukraine”
Ooh hard facts? I love hard facts! Which hard facts are you talking about?
Username checks out
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters. The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we’re talking “hard facts” I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
Isn’t the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn’t that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn’t it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between “real” communism and “fake” communism?
China is a capitalistic country with a state guidance in their industrial policy and a dictator in the helm.
They don’t really even have anything in regards to a national health care.
Allowing a fascist to become dictator of the USA will get millions more people genocided than voting for a liberal.
Telling the truth about a liberal, when that truth contains a call to action not to vote against fascism, will get millions more people genocided than shutting up about a liberal.
millions more people genocided
That’s quite a claim. If the US is set to genocide millions of people, then as people at risk of being victims of that, surely we should be treating the US government as the primary threat to our safety, correct?
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that “critical thinking” you’re talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you’ll be banned.
That’s the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that’s how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Also encourages an us and them mindset. Which grows both the us and them sides as people are drawn into it being previously indifferent or unaware.
Call out the individuals or behavior not their entire community or demographic.
I’m not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That’s what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let’s do that.
That’s why I think they’re astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
if your community becomes more toxic when people leave it because other communities call it toxic…maybe its actually toxic.
IMO if I was running an instance it would have already defederated from ml instances.
deleted by creator
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia’s communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don’t have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There’s room for a lot of interesting study here, i’m not sure any exists, and i’ve yet to see any unfortunately, it’s mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn’t have issues with school there until after he’d been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some… Cultural differences with his teachers.
“People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent”
It’s not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve “the revolution.”
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn’t get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It’s 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we’re lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
Probably why you don’t have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don’t like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They’re opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you’re looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It’s harsh, but i’ve never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it’s existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It’s important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don’t require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn’t harm anyone. No “new government” is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I’ll admit I’m not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn’t corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it’s supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That’s not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn’t deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you’re thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that’s where I got that description from.
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being “against all forms of authority” is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an “expertise” instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I’m new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
You can still appreciate Karl Marx’s Manifesto without endorsing the Soviet Union or China.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven’t read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
Reposting my comment from the last .world feud post
Couldn’t care less about lemmy.world. This post has the same energy as people in comment sections publicly announcing they are blocking someone.
Do what you want. No one cares.
You obviously care lmao
If it’s an hour that ends in o’clock, there’s someone on .world screaming about the dang leftists ruining the website.
The only leftists I will recognize are liberals
leftists
Tankies
FIFY
You and your fellow tankies are “authoritarian leftists” and are JUST as bad as the right wing
So yea, leftists are ruining the site, the tankie authoritarian leftists
Posted from Elgin Air Force base
*Eglin
And this is a reference to?
Most addicted city (over 100k visits total) Eglin Air Force Base, when I see someone going out of their way to be a cop about communists on the Internet it just makes me think you must get paid to be one IRL and just can’t shut it off.
Ah, yea no. I have no problems with the idea of communism and like socialism.
However, the “communism” you and your fellow tankies love to spread, is authoritarianism/dictatorship with a communism mask like the CCP or Russia. Along with racism, bigotry and transphobia sprinkled in.
Along with racism, bigotry and transphobia sprinkled in.
Bold words, but I run into way more bigotry and racism while/after posting on .world vs posting in .ml spaces.
Nutomic is a shithead for failing to address his transphobia, if he ever posts in /c/transgender I’ll ban him myself.
authoritarianism/dictatorship with a communism mask like the CCP or Russia.
Russia is not pretending to be communist, wtf are you on? do you mean USSR? if anything I’ve run into way more cutting critiques of existing/historical socialist states among actual communists in these spaces as opposed to carnival barkers with a tenuous grasp on history.
The racism allegations also kind of sound like projection in this context considering on of the main controversies I’ve seen about bans here are for banning people being weirdly racist and choosing to die on the hill of depicting the president of China as a yellow cartoon animal.
Does “be civil” include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There’s a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it’s called the blocking function, but I suppose that’d stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
i assume “be civil” just means that you can’t call people “dipshit asshole dumbass idiot” and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that’s generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn’t just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that’s not civil.
.world consistently removes memes calling out their own communities. But they leave up any “meme” bashing .ml
But theres a difference, when a .world mod defends genocide or promotes imperalism you know its ok because its in the name of Western Democracy ™. Tbh .ml and .world are basically in a competition on who can fling the most shit and who can bootlick the hardest.
It’s a meme sub, chill out.
Pretty based take… coming from a lemmy.world user. /$
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn’t anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
Can you point me to any member of these “huge groups of well known users” spreading bigotry, racism, and transphobia?
First rule of using Lemmy: If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
“Well known” is so patronizing. It’s like OP is saying “yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?”. Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
yeah uh, that’s the joke. That’s the obviously implication of the joke here.
That’s like saying that “all murderers are bad” and then me going “well hey don’t you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
It did neither of those things though, so that’s irrelevant. It just says it’s a comment.
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I actually didn’t make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on !memes@sopuli.xyz
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It’s not like it’s a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven’t brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It’s the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
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why not leave?
Sunk cost fallacy.
I’ve already made so many posts and comments here, if I were to switch to a different instance, I’d have to start all over.
You should turn this account into an archive.
So? There’s not much value in past comments/posts is there? Like, how often do you look back on those?
Yeah, not much value in your past comments/posts.
i did
hmm, I wonder why .ml dislikes .world so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with us shitting on them so much.
It’s because they can’t delete posts on .world
As a user of neither, I’ve only been banned from one of them for making fun of government leaders
i’m blanket banned from .ml presumably over genocide debate, and i’ve been clocked on my instance a few times as well.
Though only for a week each time, so that’s interesting.
Don’t leave us hanging why did .world ban you?!
hmm, I wonder why many other instances dislikes .ml so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with them praising and spreading the propaganda of authoritarian governments so much.
