- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
You must log in or # to comment.
Humans really can’t keep their hands out of the tribalism cookie jar.
You can’t change where or how you’re born, but you can change what instance you’re on with almost no impact to yourself. Maybe spend ten, fifteen minutes on copying your subscriptions over manually. It’s like changing out of a T-shirt with really unfortunate text you couldn’t read before putting it on, one of the greatest benefits of federation.
Even though I came from reddit, I approach comments on their own merits and I don’t downvote just for disagreeing with someone.
We are not the same.
Great! Now, instead of downvoting state your disagreement and don’t downvote. Maybe you’ll learn something, maybe someone else will.
Nah, my comments are all pretty dumb. OP’s logic checks out.
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
I have no problems with tankies expressing there opinions. The problem is when someone points out they are wrong they get mad and if the mods are tankie they ban you. If not they just get mad and start name calling.
In a nutshell I think they should be allowed as long as they follow the rules. Same for everyone else.
Yeah, from my pov, it’s not about silencing their opinions as much as it is wanting to avoid their authority because they abuse it to push their opinions.
Same reason I ultimately left Reddit. Admins were making choices I didn’t like and forcing them on their users. The new site and official app both suck, but I had the option of using other apps or the old site. Even the old site isn’t a great experience on mobile vs some 3rd party apps, but then they killed off the apps in a way that looked like they weren’t being honest about (though in hindsight it was more about wanting to price access for AI training than specifically wanting to kill the 3rd party apps imo).
Lemmy isn’t immune from any of that, but the impact isn’t as high because federation gives options. And corruption turns into more of a game of whack a mole instead of “throw lots of money at the one entity controlling it” like Reddit and Twitter.
My instance has communities dedicated to this shit.
Some of your more vocal voices in this crusade against .ml tend to be pretty active in drone kill footage communities.
Having someone who actively supports Israeli operations in Gaza browbeat others about comments on Uyghurs is just a context to get used to.
It gets pretty easy to ignore once you see a full cycle of it.
The zionists here, too? I used reddit for over a decade and left because of how awful zionists barrage reddit into a propogandist cesspit. And yes screw anyone who makes lemmy a battleground like reddit
Lemmy is generally leaning pro-Palestine, but it varies.
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
This is what the tankies do, would you rather have them just run roughshod all over Lemmy spreading hostile country authoritarian propaganda?
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred
Not about changing Tankie opinions, they’re too far gone, this is about pushing back on the spread of authoritarian BS.
and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
“Don’t tell the new comers to town about the Nazis at the Nazi bar, let them figure it out for themselves so they have a negative experience and leave”
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here
If they’re (admins and mods) going to allow a toxic culture on their instance, then it doesn’t matter their size. Toxic Tankies is not a good look at all.
and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
The worst possible greeting, is seeing Tankie shit takes with paragraphs of “Russia/China did nothing wrong” and everyone going “We let them post their stuff because we don’t want to hurt their fefes”
lol look at the downvotes on this one… these tankies coordinate themselves against opinions that they don’t like. it’s ridiculously obvious.
I’ll bash them too when I see them doing so. So long, it’s mostly them (or really, everyone leftier than liberals bunched along with actual tankies) that are under fire.
Your war made too much collateral damage, that’s what I’m saying. Newbies come to .ml and other popular instances, and are attacked on the spot for being presumably almost Nazis. Others come and see this mess.
You are so concerned about someone making China/Russia look better that you are ready to overlook everything else.
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
Hexbear has some users with strong Linux and tech knowledge. That’s why I still haven’t blocked the instance.
IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. .ml is mostly OK 75% of the times. Hexbear is a cesspool always
The only bans I saw on your account were for being needlessly hostile- and they look like they all were extremely short.
Re: the homophobic comments, in your posts that got removed you were hostile for what looks to me like your misinterpreting a bad attempt at a bad joke (not even from .ml user, but .ee), though you didn’t tell them to kys that time at least. You then went through the their profile responding to months old posts to try to continue things, again being needlessly hostile- if I had to venture a guess that was more of the reason for your ban 5 months ago. Plenty of other instances will also temp ban for behavior like that.
and then 8 months ago you dropped this gem: CW self harm, transphobia
spoiler
The accusations of toxicity seem to be projection.
CW self harm, transphobia
Bullshit.
Why don’t you show the context?The user bullied me for being gay. He’s the one who went into my history and saw I was a gay dad. He reply to my comment about the fact that I love my daughter with the reply “You’re gay”. Then mods like you told me it was a "bad joke’ remove my post and let the douche’s post up.
Now I’d like to see where I’ve been transphobe, , I have a trans person really close to me that would probably like to see that but it never happened.
part 2:
CW self harm, transphobiaBullshit. Why don’t you show the context?
Oh here’s the context for the transphobic comment too:
images:
spoiler
It was in this post about donald trump posting an image of Joe Biden tied up
You opened up with this, which is pretty clearly trolling.
Marcie responded with a similarly pointed comment that also got removed for being uncivil.
thread view:
Then you dropped your transphobic/kys comment in response to someone saying that Trump could get shot for treason but the democrats will never follow through. This is expressing frustration with liberals who talk a big game but when the chips are down take no action. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish other than being needlessly hostile.
Worth noting all of this is in the public modlog, anyone can look it up
This is just “removed by mod” . I’m not transphobic no matter how hard you want it to be real. Oh, and I actually went to see Chapo in Montreal a couple years back, before I understood who these people are. They kept making joke about how french Canadians are stupid and inferior, to an audience of 90% unilingual white males. Absolutely pathetic, it’s probably on youtube.
You asked for the context, click on the spoiler tag if you want to see the removed comment, here’s another link
I really don’t see how taking a shot at hexbear as being ‘95% guys’ is relevant, or anything other than being intentionally transphobic, but I look forward to your explanation.
Also I don’t care about shittalking chapo lol, pretty much every time I’ve listened to them (extremely infrequent occurrence) I’ve been annoyed by something.
I agree that ‘ironic’ homophobia is still homophobia, and should be removed, just like ‘ironic’ misogyny and transphobia.
spoiler
his comment wasn’t ‘You’re gay’, but it was close
A meme this could be seen as referencing is this
you responded with this:
Going into past threads to respond about an unrelated grievance would get you a temp ban in a lot of lemmies, regardless how valid.
Here’s the transphobic part of the post of yours - the same one in the post above
spoiler
Hexbear has done many surveys at this point of the gender of its users (most recent one linked here) As of this last one cis people are in the minority, I don’t know why you would insert a comment like that if you weren’t trying to be transphobic.
Lol. The joke about shooting “a superiority complex” (3 feet above your head) is encouraging self-harm? This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium. I haven’t met a single person from France that doesn’t find really it funny, and I’ve met more then you ever will. Maybe it doesn’t translate well, but it’s definitely a joke, no ambiguity here. On the other hand a loser calling me “Gay” for loving my daughter it’s clearly humor?? Fuck off lol. I’ve been bullied all my life, I’ve learned to stand up against this kind of “joke”. Maybe I’ve overacted but I will always show my teeth when it involves my daughter and homophobia.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
BTW, you’re just confirming me that you .ml people are powertripping hardcore. I use to defend the instance but I will now gladly join the bashing. You people suck.
This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium.
I’m not familiar with it, and I doubt many other people reading it got that either. It’s a little ironic that you’re this bent out of shape when other people don’t get your joke but at the same time can’t give other people the same deference.
I still think removing the homophobic comment -ironic or otherwise- was the right move, however you going into months-old threads to harass them about your current beef was also something begging for moderation.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
I have, twice now, are you being intentionally obtuse? click on the spoiler tag if you want to see.
I’ve been a victim of stuff like that. It is straight up not cool and a asshole move.
You are welcome to disagree with me and you can even hate me but at the end of the day harassment is not ok.
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
The admins of ml are tankies and so are a lot of the communities there. The non tankie users are moving away from that instance which increases the tankie concentration.
I think what you are meaning to say is that many tankies can behave like normal people. To take your comment farther, tankies can be anywhere but you will most likely see them coming from I stances like ml and hexbear or fresh accounts on other instances.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Based 👌❤️
I am .NL not .ML please don’t hate on me dyslexic lemmys
“Corporate needs you to tell the difference between these pictures”
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
I used to have a Lemmy account many years ago. I may of thought Lemmy was making fun of communism at the time and I made a meme that got me banned.
A few years later here I am.
Oh no
I don’t care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
woah.
woah?
It’s short for “woke tuah [girl]”
yeah I was echoing the meme. silly joke
woah
You are on the wrong instance for that
They’re on the normal regular instance. Political content is mostly propagated through lemmy.world anyway.
I like how this comment would work regardless of the instance they’re on
Facts
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
Instance Filters! Couple of clicks and it’s like they never existed.
Honestly, that’s just sticking your head in the sand. Newcomers aren’t going to have those filters. Their Tankie BS should be called out every time.
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that “critical thinking” you’re talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you’ll be banned.
That’s the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Also encourages an us and them mindset. Which grows both the us and them sides as people are drawn into it being previously indifferent or unaware.
Call out the individuals or behavior not their entire community or demographic.
You’re absolutely right. I just signed up on .ml because I was a reddit refugee and it was one of the largest instances, and it got the fastest updates. Like a year later, suddenly everyone’s talking about me like I’m part of some crazy cult. I bet well over half of .ml users don’t even come close to the extreme stereotype, but are considering going to another instance just so we don’t get bullied any more. It’s likely going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I’m not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
That’s why I think they’re astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That’s what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let’s do that.
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
if your community becomes more toxic when people leave it because other communities call it toxic…maybe its actually toxic.
IMO if I was running an instance it would have already defederated from ml instances.
deleted by creator
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There’s room for a lot of interesting study here, i’m not sure any exists, and i’ve yet to see any unfortunately, it’s mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia’s communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don’t have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
It’s not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve “the revolution.”
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn’t get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It’s 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we’re lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn’t have issues with school there until after he’d been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some… Cultural differences with his teachers.
“People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent”
Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
I hate when leftists punch down on other leftists. It’s not a competition!
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that’s how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
Probably why you don’t have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don’t like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They’re opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you’re looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It’s harsh, but i’ve never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it’s existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It’s important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don’t require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn’t harm anyone. No “new government” is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I’ll admit I’m not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn’t corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it’s supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That’s not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn’t deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you’re thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that’s where I got that description from.
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being “against all forms of authority” is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an “expertise” instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I’m new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
You can still appreciate Karl Marx’s Manifesto without endorsing the Soviet Union or China.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven’t read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
