Greta Tankberg countdown: countdown

Edit: 170 comments doggirl-gloom

    • NewOldGuard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      Ummm ackchually 99% Hitler isn’t directly genociding me yet so technically this is just authoritarian :smug:

      Both bourgeois parties are actively performing genocide in West Asia with a particular emphasis on Palestine right now. They both trip over each other trying to outdo one another’s anti-immigrant rhetoric. Both run concentration camps on the Mexico border. Both stoke hatred for LGBTQ+ people for cheap bigoted culture war points. Both crush strikes and protest movements. Both are imperialist servants to capital, and will do anything to further the military industrial complex, pharmaceutical industry, and finance groups which back them.

      Fascism is capitalism in decay, it is a corporatist economic structure with brutal repressive elements towards labor, activists, and minority groups. It’s imperial domination and exploitation. It’s establishing a supremacist in-group mindset and stoking all manner of bigotry to redirect people’s grievances away from class consciousness and into oppressing their fellow man. We have all of that now, despite slight differences in rhetoric between the Dems and Republicans. Both parties materially support and facilitate exactly that structure. The USA is a fascist country and has always been the primordial archetype for that system. Voting under a liberal democracy is nearly meaningless given that the system is rigged by capital from the start, but running water for these exploitative bourgeois genicodaires is disgusting. Your vote acts as endorsement and lends legitimacy to exactly these crimes which WILL continue regardless of which ghoul occupies the White House.

      • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        20 days ago

        Agree on most of what you’re saying. However both don’t stoke hatred for LGBTQ+, and both don’t have the same approach to social and economical matters.

        The oversimplification of everything is the same is a path to fascism. That is being seen in Europe, in the US and elsewhere. Fucking Milei in Argentina as well.

        Finally, you’re not going to change a system that you are forced to participate in regardless of your opinion. Not voting in a 2-party system is accepting that the people who actually want a dictator, mass deportations, and a white evangelical society have one fewer vote to surpass.

        • newacctidk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          20 days ago

          No they just both enable hatred for LGBTQ people and do nothing to stop it. the idea that said people at the end of your comment have to “surpass” any votes is childish. They didn’t have to surpass any votes to wipe out Palestine, they didnt have to surpass any votes to kill M4A. You bring fascism to everyone’s doorstep and then act baffled when we choose not to buddy up with you once it tries to get inside.

          • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            20 days ago

            Again, you have 2 real options to choose from. On one side you have a guy that wants to be a dictator, on the other the same type of shit as always. Anything, even not voting, is a decision to pick one of these 2 options.

            If you really feel they are the same. You’re enabling the dictator that has a lot of supporters.

            • newacctidk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              You describe three options, but just keep proclaiming they are really two. Fucking Cardassian BS. You showing your belly to the democrats is enabling the dictator given the dems are TOUTING that they are fighting for Trump’s border policy.

              • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                20 days ago

                You have only 2 outcomes. You can go there and shit on the ballot, that’s an option. But it doesn’t change having 2 outcomes.

                • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  20 days ago

                  There’s actually an immense number of choices, but only 1 outcome, it’s the same shit with either of the two possible winners. This is your candidate. I’m sure the woman who voted against federal funding for abortion on two separate times will turn out to be a great crusader for Roe v. Wade

                  The best you can do is work towards creating an alternative for the future, which requires that you do not vote for them - And I need to be clear, not voting for them is less than the least you can do. The least you can do is go out and [redacted]

                • Cowbee [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  20 days ago

                  Elections are not isolated events in a vacuum, devoid of context, purely about which genocidal Imperialist wins.

                  that workers’ candidates are nominated everywhere in opposition to bourgeois-democratic candidates. As far as possible they should be League members and their election should be pursued by all possible means. Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled.

                  From the Mario and Luigi of Communism, marx-hi blushing-engels

                • GnastyGnuts [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  20 days ago

                  You have only one outcome: the USA will move rightward.

                  To the extent that voting matters in a fundamentally broken electoral system like ours, voting for the democrats is an affirmation of the choices they have made: affirmation of their choice to arm genocide in Gaza, affirmation of their choice to move right on immigration, affirmation of their choice to abandon death penalty abolition from their platform, etc.

                  Why would they ever change course as a party if they still get the only thing they want from you either way? Lesser evil voting is a race to the bottom, and the longer people wait to correct the democrats’ course, the more painful it will be to endure a republican government in the meantime.

                  The democrats will never stop this country from its rightward trajectory if they keep moving rightward with it because their base continually validates them.

                  • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                    19 days ago

                    Yeah electorialism is a fuck, but if you’re the type that believes in it, then you have to accept that it only works if you vote for someone who represents you, not for whomever least doesn’t, but is also able to win the whole thing.

                    Representative democracy only works if you vote for a representative.

            • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              Again, you have 2 real options

              Why perputrate a failed system that offers 2 Choices , both Zionist ? Thats Undemocratic. People Need to vote for who represents them , if they dont they fail in their Duty of Citizens and Perputrate a Undemocratic system ,that offers bad choices .

              Somebody that doesnt do that but votes for a “Lesser evil” is activly participating in the Destruction of Democracy. He is a Enableer of this Destruction. A traiteor to his Countryman , and in this Particluar case , all of Humanity and its Developments in Humanitarianism.

            • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              You are an actual lemming. If you provide your enthusiastic support for the ‘same as always’ candidate, when do you think things will ever change for the better? Grab a gun! Join a union! Stop telling people to vote for genocide!

            • Jabril [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              America has always been a dictatorship of the capitalist class over everyone else. You do not have two real options to choose from, you have two pre-selected symbolic representations of your subjugation by and for capital.

            • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              You could literally just stay home, eat cheetos and masturbate for the entirety of election day and accomplish more politically than endorsing wither genocidal candidate because you withdrew your support from any candidate until they fuck off with the genocide. They’re both equally bad, this isn’t a meaningful decision, so not bothering to make it is fine.

              • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                19 days ago

                Yeah electorialism is a fuck, but if you’re the type that believes in it, then you have to accept that it only works if you vote for someone who represents you, not for whomever least doesn’t, but is also able to win the whole thing.

                Representative democracy only works if you vote for a representative.

                Edit: I see I posted it twice… Weird, but it works as aresponce to both

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          20 days ago

          The oversimplification of everything is the same is a path to fascism

          But you misunderstand us, everything is not the same. In the US, the borgeois double party encompasses a sprawling ecosystem of rich and varied fascism, with every species serving a purpose in facilitating the flow of capital. It’s fascists of the blue variety, usually willfully ignorant, who insist on ironically reducing a century’s worth of comprehensive analysis to “a simplification” just because it arrives at clear conclusions in a way that is verboten in liberal thought.

          In reality, it’s that trained liberal reflex of peeling off increasingly atom-thin layers of nuance to wrap over increasingly visible fascist policy that, historically, has only ever ended in naked fascism. Only liberals could torture into being the nebulous mirror image of a fascism to define themselves against that somehow also lets them off the hook for the genocide they’ve been doing for a year. My brother in capitalism, we are the fascists. You may personally think there’s still daylight between liberalism and fascism, but most of the world knows better by now.

          Finally, you’re not going to change a system that you are forced to participate in regardless of your opinion

          Very cool not-a-sham democracy we have here

          • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            19 days ago

            Finally, you’re not going to change a system that you are forced to participate in regardless of your opinion

            Incredible thing to admit. “Finally your opinion doesn’t matter in this system” okay cool so it doesn’t matter who I’m voting for, glad we are on the same page.

            Just had a widdle thought but I think on this site we have conflated “has no meaningful effect” with “doesn’t matter.” Here thinking of the minor struggle session about voting having a moral value recently. It does matter if you’re voting for a genocider, but it has no effect.

        • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          20 days ago

          If you’re not doing another Reddit cliche of pretend-ignorance on top of your actual ignorance, you are very welcome to fuck off to anywhere you like as long as it’s not here.

          • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            20 days ago

            Truly fucking demoratic. Someone disagrees with .1% of what you think is already too much for you to handle.

            • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              Passive-aggressive sarcasm is the core of Reddit. You already claimed you didn’t know where it was, so if that’s really true, go find it. You’ll fit right in and get all the nuance you can eat.

              bootlicker farquaad-point

    • Cowbee [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      What is Authoritarianism? How does it differ from fascism? Can you legitimately analyze the situation of the United States?

      If we follow Eco and Eco alone, the US is already fascist and has been. Eco doesn’t analyze the causes of fascism, nor how to prevent it.

      Read Blackshirts and Reds.

          • roux [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            19 days ago

            I read the kid’s version(please don’t judge me lol) and even that one had plenty of new wtf moments for me. I definitely have no qualms saying “fuck Columbus” at this point. There is a documentary series called Untold History of the United States that does corroborate a lot of the second half of the book but it’s a bit lib and anti-communist at times iirc. I might be wrong though. I watched it early on in my radicalizing.

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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              19 days ago

              One thing about Zinn though, he was succdem and anticommunist (though not of the fire and venom breathing variety apparently), his book is mostly honest about USA, but he completely omit the history of communist movements in US and his solution is just more socialdemocracy. He also omits most of the relations betweens US and communist countries (with exceptions of Vietnam and Cuba which he low-key praises). Polish translation by local succdem publishing house even had absolutely scumfucking foreword written by local succdem scumfuck which was 80% AES bashing and 20% “neither Washington nor Moscow” mantra.

              • roux [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                19 days ago

                Very good comment. I do still try to read some not-so-leftist stuff if it is praise-worthy enough for it’s actual content but absolutely keep in mind the author’s intentions. I really wish there was something in the same vein that didn’t omit the work that communism did in the 20th century. I guess we still got Parenti for that but I’m not familiar with many more.

    • roux [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      The entirety of the United States of America was built on Fascist ideology. Just because it didn’t have a name yet doesn’t mean our forefathers didn’t basically invent it.

    • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      AHAHAHAAHAHA THE FUCKING AUTHORITARIANISM ASSPULL yessir let’s fucking go talk to me about the concept cooked up by the US to conflate the USSR and the nazis. Authoritarianism is fucking meaningless as a concept, the only purpose is to be a scary word we use to describe bad countries.

      The US is already fascist as fuck, dumbfuck. People get tortured on US soil, they get disappeared to black sites, they get put in jail and forced to work as slaves, there’s concentration camps at the border, genocides like it’s going out of style, civil rights being removed and ignored and IT’S HAPPENING NOW and IT’S BEEN HAPPENING FOR YEARS

      Uhhhh yeah but under Trump uhhh suddenly I would notice which means that would make it uhhh uhhh wowee <- Your brain after finally having to think

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      as defined by Umberto Eco

      You’ll find socialists reject this. It’s a vague and imprecise liberal definition that falls short of properly including all instances of fascism. Socialist definitions include all examples of fascism because fascism is correctly defined and more appropriately understood as a reaction to socialism. We call them reactionaries for a reason.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      20 days ago

      I agree that the US isn’t fascist in the traditional sense, which I believe is all that is being argued, but two things:

      1. What do you call a country that continuously props up fascist states abroad? That seems to me to be something [at least] as bad as fascism, even if it bears a different name.

      2. Umberto Eco is a bad source for explaining fascism to someone who isn’t a literal child, and even then I think a high schooler can do better. He is describing a disease based on a scant few cases pretty much exclusively through a set of symptoms and never actually understanding the disease itself. You might need to read more than five pages to understand the political-economic mechanics of fascism’s development within a society.

      • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        20 days ago
        1. Imperialist and colonialist and of course it is bad, not arguing the contrary.
        2. It is, and there are a lot more to discuss the causes and how fascism appears, but it is an attempt at a definition because fascism isn’t linearly defined. If you read up on the actual somewhat consensual fascist regimes of 20th century Europe they have significant differences between Salazar, Franco, Mussolini or other. But we don’t consider imperialist UK fascist despite being a political abomination. Words matter and labeling everything fascist does a disservice for any political discussion.

        Regardless my main point is that we must, as individuals, live within the realms of systems we disagree with. And saying everything is the same is just not understanding nuance, in my opinion.

          • migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            20 days ago

            You’re the fucking bootlicker making decisions that really only benefit the imperialists and billionaires.

            • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              Says the person who is arguing for supporting imperialists and billionaires lol
              yeah I’m sure Harris is gonna change something real soon because she can feel how your vote for her wasn’t actually a vote in support it was just meant against Trump just this one time, it’s the most important election of all time after all.
              You people are all the same. No reason to waste time writing out new thoughtful arguments, when you just repeat the same bullshit, so here you go another link in the chain

            • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              20 days ago

              no your really a Bootlicker … your Modus of Reasoning is the Modus of a Bootlicker … before every Principle , the “Bootlicker allgoritm” runs over your every Decision.

              In a Democracy you vote for who represents you . You do not let a wierd pathetic Bootlicker allgoritm run over the fact that that you vote for who represents you . And if nobody Represent you , you dont vote.

              DO you understand how easy it actually is , without you activating the Bootlicker Systems of yours ?

        • GalaxyBrain [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          20 days ago

          You can understand nuance and still conclude there is no meaningful distinction between 2 things. You’re the simplistic fatalist here. Take a nap on some train tracks, bootlicker

        • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          19 days ago

          A person with a nuanced understanding of the world would be supportive of Hamas, Iran, Russia and China in their respective fights against the US empire.
          You people jerk off to the concept of nuance, which is always just a thin veil to obfuscate the fact you support the status quo, but you wanna be able to flirt with communist hotties. You see some talking head on TV say “well, it’s nuanced” and you don’t think about it any more than that. You don’t think about the fact that the alleged “nuance” leads you to the same point that rabid fascists are at, just maybe with a slight tummyache. It’s also actually not nuanced, it’s incredible simple, straightforward, cut-and-dry and other synonyms.

          Let me spell it out for you: Genocide is Bad. Both Candidates Are Fascists. Neither Candidate Will Do Anything Good. You Are A Bad Person For Supporting Genocide And Not Caring About All The Heinous Shit That Is Going On Because You Feel Comfortable Under Democratic Regimes. Just Because You Don’t Hear About Things Happening On Last Week Tonight, Doesn’t Mean They Are Not Happening. What You Think Matters Not, When What You Do Is Supporting Fascism.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          20 days ago

          Contrary to my fellows, I basically agree with your main point – though I also agree with the counter that Eco’s definition of fascism would consider America fascist – but ultimately when I said that his definition was inadequate because it doesn’t touch on the basic mechanics of fascism at all, your solution was to mystify by saying “well, they’re diverse”.

          Here’s the problem with that: You’re still identifying all those states as fascist despite the preponderance of diversity that is such a concern for you. This leaves two possibilities:

          1. Fascism is basically a rhetorical style, not a genuine political ideology

          2. There is something in the mechanics of these political movements that allows you to call all of them fascist

          I think that 1 is the much flimsier point. I’m surprised no one has given you a good account of 2, but the really short answer is that it is what happens when capitalism as a mode of production comes under threat (especially from itself) and capitalists unite to find a way to clear-cut more room to expand in, while defending capitalism and its instrument, the state, with the greatest viciousness from any challengers either one face. It is capitalism panicking.