I’m not sure how assaulting children is ever going to build an effective relationship between kids and their parents. Parents should represent safety and unconditional love because then the educational message will have an easier time being accepted by the kids.
You’re choosing to use escalating language, instead of accurate language; With the choice of “assault”, you’re attempting to arouse an outsized emotional response in the reader. As a debate tactic, It’s a dishonest manipulation. You should try to avoid doing that.
Besides, assault is a legal term, which includes merely the threat of violence. Battery is the actual use of violence. So even in what you were trying to do, you used the wrong term.
Ok I fail to see how battering kids helps them develop a bond of trust with the carers.
That’s better. It’s still escalating language, and dishonest. But at least it’s more accurate.
And the truth is spanking doesn’t build trust. Not on its own anyway. It’s all about the context.
Following through on an established rule with a known consequences does actually promote trust. It works as part of a holistic approach to reward and punishment.
Spanking generally isn’t needed with many children. But with some children, it can be a effective tool when used appropriately.when used appropriately
…and there’s the rub. Far too often it’s not used appropriately. And people’s ideas of what is appropriate is colored by whether they too were beaten as a child.
I think it’s often used with younger kids because parents don’t understand why their kids are acting up and can’t work out how to “get through” to them. As kids get older they become a lot better at understanding and really words should be the only tool you need.
The dreaded phrase “I’m not angry just disappointed” should cut deep when (rarely) used because the kids understand their parents have their interests at heart. If they don’t then something has gone wrong building that relationship of trust and respect.
ETA: forgot to say of course positive reinforcement is also key. Kids need to know when they get things right so they are not walking on eggshells worried about getting things wrong.
Agreed. But that doesn’t effect my point, or even the study.
Almost everything with an effective appropriate use can also be misused.
You’re choosing to nitpick something that wasn’t even in question.
“As a debate tactic…”
This isn’t the debate club, my friend. He just made a comment. You’re overreacting. You should try to avoid doing that.
Besides, the use of “besides” as a complete sentence with a full stop is grammatically wrong.
Besides, the use of “besides” as a complete sentence with a full stop is grammatically wrong.
That’s true. Apologies… And corrected
Yeah, my mom was very violent, my second step dad as well. I remember the “look what you made me do”. The more I got beaten, the more my behaviour got worse.
I got placed into a foster home at 14 by childrens law (kinderrechter) because I came to school with bruises and black eyes, so my parents now are not welcome in my house or anywhere near my son…although they want to reconcile.
I have never beaten my kid and he is here at almost 20, loving his parents and doing alright. I learned from my upbringing never to beat my kid.
I am still seeing a shrink, depression from all that 40 years later. Fuck you if you beat your kids. You can set them straight by other means by taking away privileges, talking to them in a quite and composed manner, and show them ways how to do better.
I don’t think the paper is disputing the harm of abusively beating the shit out of your kids.
I think kindenough is making a point about how things can change easily. Its easy to go from “I am punishing my kid” to abuse in a split second and you may not know the difference especial if you don’t/can’t reflect on what happened. A small change over time will go unnoticed. I big change can go unnoticed if you are not watching.
Nowhere in the entire post does it say anything like this.
I’m all for legitimate papers and research challenging my views, however what kind of journal is “Marriage and Family Review”? It seems to be a little confusing with the “Marriage and Family Journal” which has been around for over 100 years. The “Review” variants has only been around since the 70s.
It seems to be primarily published through Taylor and Francis which has a mixed reputation when searching online. For others out there who are familiar with this publisher, please set me straight if my doubt is misplaced.
This is one of those papers where I look forward to having the research reproduced again in more journals, to alleviate my skepticism.
I got spanked and even hit a time or two as a kid.
I turned out okay considering. Had kids and thought a spanking or two wasn’t bad considering what i went though so that’s the stance i took. Thankfully we had ip cams instead of video baby monitors when they were babies. $90 vs $350 at the time so that’s what we did. I set them up with my Synology to record continuously.
I watched a monster overreact to a common child reaction. [Not justifying just explaining (I was tired and thus had a short fuse as happens at times with young kids)] Thankfully two things had happened. (1) I had the IP camera recording everything that happened, (2) I wanted to see why my kid was acting up and make sure I was in the “right” to spank her. Spoiler, I was not. I saw an angry man react to a kid who didn’t want to do something.
I cried, because I was my father when I was punished unjustly as a kid. (There were times I actually was a shit head and it was warranted, but i also remember plenty of times it was not) That morning with my 2 year old it was not. Because of that day I no longer fell into the Spanking is okay for me group.
Don’t get me wrong I know there are times it can be helpful but I realized at that moment I was not a good judge of when those times were. This means I was no longer going to do it. That was me but I don’t judge other who only spank.
I got spanked and even hit a time or two as a kid.
I turned out okay considering.
Careful. This may be a story very common among boomers, gen-x and even older millennials, but it’s gonna get you reams of downvotes here from people whose terrible experience - to them - is universal.
(FWIW: army family. Lots of “explain yourself” and only rarely was the atom bomb used)
“Violence as a growth guide: a good thing?”
Hm, I wonder.
Idk I guess if this was like Dragonball z and we could put a power level on the spanking then maybe it makes sense? Like ok we’re going with a power level 5 spanking today out of 10000 lol idk though…some kids seem like they could use a spank on the bottom but I think that’s the extent it should go. When I see people hitting their kids in other ways I feel awful inside but a butt spank never seemed to bother me when I’ve seen it in action as long as it’s not like they are trying to hit the bell at the top of a carnival hammer game.
Some kids absolutely need to be spanked. I was one of them - timeouts did nothing. Taking things away did nothing. Getting the threat of being spanked? Definitely stopped me in my tracks. Actually getting spanked? That’s the last time I was going to try whatever stunt caused it.
My kids don’t need to be spanked and never have been, other methods have always worked to curb bad behavior. Anyone saying “spanking is never acceptable” has apparently never had a shithead boy who is unphased by other forms of punishment.
For adults wondering if it’s OK to spank: if you’re spanking your kid out of anger or it’s the first thing you turn to, you’re doing something very wrong. It should be the big red button of last resort.
Spanking is never okay.
Just because you are too stupid to see other ways to handle a literal child does not make it okay to hit said child.
Yes, even if you are referring to yourself as the child.And please just for a second think about the fact, that you only stated other forms of punishment as not working on you and didn’t even consider actual forms of pedagogical parenting, before you black out in anger that I called you stupid.
I didn’t even read the article as there are countless studies out already that comprehensively show that hitting children is always harmful and never useful.
Just because you are too stupid to see other ways to handle a literal child does not make it okay to hit said child.
While I shouldn’t feed the trolls, I’ll respond.
I do see other ways to handle children, I literally stated that, but you skipped that part because apparently you’re too lazy or too stupid to read an entire post and retain all the information contained within it. Which tracks the rest of your message. Now before you’re blinded by rage: it’s pretty obvious you aren’t a parent. it’s pretty obvious your exposure to kids is extremely limited. Your “countless studies” apparently amounted to: 0? Because you’re refuting an ACTUAL study with a post on lemmy that doesn’t include a SINGLE citation.
I’m not surprised you didn’t read the article, because you appear to be one of those fools that has the entire world solved, if only more people would listen to you. And it’s shocking they don’t, you’ve got such a persuasive means of communication.
I’m not surprised at the study. It’s basically impossible to control for between individual variation sufficiently without an RCT, but that will never happen with spanking. There will always be this problem of which end to label the cart and which end to label the horse.
I guess I’ll also poke the hornet’s nest while I’m here…
I don’t really have a problem with corporal punishment. Not for children, or adults, when appropriately administrated. I say this a person who has firsthand experience with a public school that utilised corporal punishment and an angry parent just taking it out on you for being a kid.
At school a paddling was just another step in the process. You’d lose recess time, you’d have to clap erasers or write lines, you’d get sent to the principal’s office and then and only then get a paddling on you return trip if you kept it up. There always had to be two witnesses and the teacher who sent you down wasn’t allowed to do it. If that still didn’t work they would call your parents to come get you and paddle you again. The last one basically never happened
It was so different from someone who was angry at you just trying to make themselves feel better that I could easily recognize it even as a small child. It always baffles me when people deny any daylight between the two, I assume it’s born out of a very fortunate ignorance. I never felt unsafe at school. It never diminished my trust in anyone there. If I got paddled at school—I knew it was coming, I knew exactly why, and I knew I could have made a sensible choice to avoid it. That was not the case at home.
The other reason is the moral one. I never see people with well behaved children claim you can forego punishments entirely and I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why intentional emotional harm has more virtue in it than intentional physical harm. Because that is what the alternatives are: isolation and deprivation. A time out isn’t harmless, losing recreation and exercise time isn’t harmless, they just don’t leave marks you can see.
