I’ve tried to search for opinions on what’s going on in Ukraine, but most posts are incredibly old. I’m not too educated on the matter myself (well, aside from keeping up most of the time with what cities are under whose control and all of that). I haven’t really heard much about the geopolitical side of things, and it’s hard to know what’s disinfo or not; That’s why I’d like to ask: What is your stance on the Ukraine war?
Prior to 2014, Ukraine has usually had Russian-friendly governments. Some more than others, but relations between the two countries were generally close, if sometimes strained.
In 2014 there was a coup in the Ukraine (or a revolution, or a series of protests that resulted in the president stepping down, whatever) called Euromaidan. These protests involved Neo-Nazi paramilitary groups (which are very common in Ukraine) marching in the streets. The government that emerged afterwards was solidly anti-Russian.
Separatists in the Donbass region (Eastern Ukraine, the parts that Russia is now occupying, which is about 50% Russian) immediately began trying to secede. Elections stopped being held in these regions, solidifying the anti-Russian government. Crimea, which is almost 100% Russian, was retaken by Russia with almost no resistance.
The Ukrainian War started in 2014 when the post-Euromaidan Ukrainian government began using artillery, snipers, and fascist paramilitary volunteers against the Donbass separatists. 2022 was just when the Russians decided to get involved.
The Russian government claims that the invasion was in order to “De-Nazify” Ukraine. The motivation to protect the Russian ethnic minority was also clear, but since Russia is a multi-ethnic federation, saying this sort of thing is a political no-no in Russia.
In reality, Russia invaded because Ukraine was considering membership in NATO. In 2008, Georgia was similarly considering membership in NATO. Russia then invaded and liberated the provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which remain independent to this day, and stationed troops in these regions permanently. This was done because, if they allowed Georgia into NATO, it would require NATO to defend Georgia; since NATO membership requires approval of all existing members, there is always going to be at least one member who is not eager for immediate war with Russia. This is the same thing that is happening in Ukraine: Russia is permanently occupying parts of Ukraine so that, if Ukraine were to join NATO, NATO would be obligated to “defend” them against Russia.
I think may be downplaying the Denazify part of it. The fact that Ukraine has continually glorified genocidaires, put up monuments to them, incorporated neo-nazis into their government, armed them, and are supported by NATO, is something the entire world should be alarmed at. For example, Canada’s deputy PM is a descendent of them and condones their actions, which is extremely troubling. Poland and the Israel regime have also condemned Ukraine in similar ways for this.
One of the main reasons for the original secession of the Donbass was like you said outright attacks, and attempting to “Ukrainize” the area language wise, which is absurd considering how similar the people are.
Unsurprisingly the country that was invaded by Nazis doesn’t like Nazis doing genocide on their border
The nazi problem of ukraine is not nearly as big as you guys seem to think. This is obviously a blatent excuse to show on their own propaganda channels. What news are you reading?
Right, so Israel and Poland are just fucking idiots for making a diplomatic incident over Ukraine’s constant reverence of people who perpetuated the Holocaust? the fact that there are doofuses like you denying this is just another reason why it is a problem. hell, look at this list of monuments to just 1 SS guy, and that’s just in Ukraine, not counting the ones in other countries or other Ukranian nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemoration_of_Stepan_Bandera
Anyways, stay mad. The Nazi corpses thankfully keep piling up.
I recently did a whole tour trough poland near the border with ukraine. And Poland as a relatively poor country is doing maby the most to help ukranians.
I suggest you actually read the article about bandera, here are two parts for you:
References to Bandera and “Banderites” in Russian propaganda featured during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, with Vladimir Putin making references to “Banderites” in his speeches. Russia heavily promoted the theme of “denazification”, and used rhetoric that was similar to Soviet era policy of equating the development of Ukrainian national identity with Nazism due to Bandera’s collaboration, which has a particular resonance in Russia.
Political scientist Andreas Umland wrote in 2017 that issues of remembrance in Ukraine are complicated by its history of existing between and being terrorized by two totalitarian regimes, where millions of Ukrainians were killed, but some collaborated, and the extensive exploitation and manipulation of this history by an aggressive neighbor, Russia.
Anyways, stay mad. Kiev is older them Moskow.
Muh heritage. Nazi talk. Mask off.
By that logic the capital of the world would be Jericho or Damascus.
This is really overstated. That reason was given amongst many others. The mass liberal media seized upon it and amplified it to ridicule it, even though it has a solid basis. Stating that was the reason for the invasion is simply false.
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Which are more common in Russia and which didn’t make up the bulk of the protests.
What you also fail to mention is that the protests started with Yanukovish breaking an electoral promise: Starting EU accession talks.
You mean that was elected.
The Ukrainian right wing, btw, saw an electoral loss in 2014, in 2012 Svoboda had 10%, in 2014 Svoboda + Right Sector 7%.
Indeed. But not with Ukraine bombing anything, but Russia annexing Crimea and sending little green men to Luhansk and Donbas. The “revolutions” there were Russian astroturf.
If you think that “Ukraine shelled Russians in the Donbas for eight years” then, how to put it best, take it up with Prigoshin. As well as reality. The reason Ukraine had so much trouble defending against that part of the invasion was precisely because it could not be met with military force. A police response would’ve been proper but by the time they figured that one out the Russian agents had already solidified their position.
Ukraine is multi-ethnic, too. And no that isn’t a taboo in Russia in the least. Everybody knows that Shoigu survived the shark tank that is the Kremlin because, as a Tuvan, he is no threat to whoever is currently president. Russia with a Tuvan head of state is unthinkable.
Zelensky, btw, is ethnically Russian.
The reason you hear “de-nazify” has nothing to do with actual Nazis, that’s not how the word is used in Russia. It’s simply “the enemy”. Hence why they manage to call a Jew a Nazi. There’s a lot of words which have strange meanings in Russia due to complete lack of political education. When Putin is saying “de-nazify” he’s not talking to people who read Umberto Eco.
That’s part of it but not at all all. Ukraine was perfectly willing to let go of any NATO aspirations in the beginning of the invasion if Russia withdrew from Ukrainian territory (there would still be the EU, which is also a defensive alliance, but at least the Yanks would be out of the picture), Russia wasn’t interested, what we instead got was Bucha so the option is off the table because no Ukrainian, no matter the ethnicity, believes any more that they will be safe outside of a 110% integration with the west.
There’s another reason: Russian national mythos doesn’t recognise Ukrainians as a separate ethnicity – if you allow there to be a separate ethnicity Moscow couldn’t claim to be the rightful successor to the Kyivan Rus, any more, a core aspect of its “justification” for imperialism (“Rightful ruler of all the Slavs here, and more”). The Russian empire never tolerated Ukraine as a place that should exist independently. If you want to read up on history, start in the 15th century with the Russification policies of the Empire. Russia has no such interest in Georgia.
That’s not how that works. If necessary NATO would have said “…excluding already occupied territories”.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Where do i even begin to correct you?
I strongly suggest you to watch the russian roulette series by vice news. The also were at the euromaidan. And they shot some crazy footage there.
I the video you will see that the euromaidan wasnt just a bunch of nazis protesting. Far from it. Those were some ordinay people. Who were fighting for a better country. For all the values who seem to be incompatible whit the russain government. Holding ukaine hostage.
Just like belarus isnt realy a country on its own. Its more like a proxy state run by russia.
I appreciate that you mentioned that vice news series, it’s always nice to see something new. But, you’re absolutely wrong about the EuroMaidan protests, neo-nazis played a huge role in it. Check out this article that also includes photo and video evidence regarding it: https://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/
Maby start with this video instead, it shows footage from the vice docu and does a bit of a better job explaining it, i I am really interested in your opinion on it.
https://youtu.be/obMTYs30E9A
I have read the article but a lot of the links arnt working on my phone. I will try give a proper response to it soon.
But to say that the euromaidan was a uprising by nazis is such a misrepresentation. I have never seen nazis openly protesting to join the EU. I would rather call them ultra natianolists.
To be a nazi is different in every country, depending on it history. To call people a nazi leaves out so much details en glosses over all the cultural differences. And i do think russia is using this.
The russians are the agressors in this war, and putin is a political leader with absolute power. For me this is definatly what it means to be a nazi.
Ther might be some nazi sypathizers in ukraine, but none of it is institutionalised.
Waving a nazi flag is one thing. But shooting random civillians, taking territory, concentration camps, deportation. Makes you a real nazi. Al of these thing are normal in the russian army. While ukranians are actively trying to do better.
Ukraine has a long way to go but that way is with the EU and its values.
https://youtu.be/lVkBVExuXSQ Russia should invade usa?
Euromaidan wasnt a coup organised by neonazis, crimea isnt 100% russian, NATO was never the agressor. Please get your shit right. And do some fucking research before you type a blogpost.
Nato was never the aggressor? You didn’t hear about the 15 countries they expanded to since 1991 that surround Russia?