• Bob@sh.itjust.works
    109·
    3 个月前

    Linux users and Wayland users

    Linux users with X11 users

    Linux users with GNOME users

    Linux users with KDE Plasma users

    Linux users with Systemd users

    Linux users with openrc users

    Linux users with snaps users

    Linux users with flatpak users

    Linux users with appimage users

    Linux users with native packages users

    Linux users and Ubuntu users

  • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
    483·
    3 个月前

    Technically nVidia chose that fight, not Linux users. nVidia is chocked full of proprietary implementations meant to bog down competition, for example all CUDA technology including translation layers are technically illegal to even look at without nVidia proprietary drivers. All alternatives are free open source, afaik.

      • Korne127@lemmy.world
        12·
        3 个月前

        Well, I’m not a Linux user and I say that as well. Nvidia does not just not care about Linux, they actively try to act against their open source driver implementation and working with an Nvidia graphics card on Linux is much harder than using the alternatives.

        • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
          2·
          3 个月前

          Well, I’m not a Linux user and I say that as well. Nvidia does not just not care about Linux, they actively try to act against their open source driver implementation

          Can you give more information on this?

      • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
        2·
        3 个月前

        I agree, but that’s what a linux user would say…

        “linux user” should be put in double quotes :)

    • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
      15·
      3 个月前

      Technically nVidia chose that fight, not Linux users.

      nVidia is chocked full of proprietary implementations meant to bog down competition, for example all CUDA technology including translation layers are technically illegal to even look at without nVidia proprietary drivers.

      This already described that Linux user started that fight, and they chose it.

      But they cannot do anything than using the proprietary drivers, screaming about moral, propagating GNUism.

    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
      429·
      3 个月前

      Nobody cares whose fault it is. At the end of the day it’s a Linux issue to fix.

      Edit: And they hated him for speaking the unfortunate truth.

        • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
          12·
          3 个月前

          If nvidia is an evil, then why you suppose them to provide you free drivers.

          Just drop nvidia.

          • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
            3·
            3 个月前

            We can drop nVidia and also talk about how evil they are at the same time. nVidia sells hardware, you would expect them to provide drivers for their hardware, instead they are actively preventing anybody else from making drivers for their hardware.

            • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
              4·
              3 个月前

              you would expect them to provide drivers for their hardware

              I’d correct: we would expect them to provide at least documentation.

          • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
            32·
            3 个月前

            This is my point. Telling people to just drop Nvidia is delusional. It’s Linux desktop contributers problem to fix. Doesn’t matter if it’s fair or right, but Linux DE is never going to be mainstream with Wayland type issues and having to ditch the top hardware makers.

            • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
              5·
              3 个月前

              +1

              Telling people to just drop Nvidia is delusional

              We can tell people that is going to buy a new computer to avoid nvidia :)

              It’s Linux desktop contributers problem to fix.

              We can’t write drivers for platforms that we don’t have documentation. linux desktop contributors dropping support for nvidia entirely is not a bad decision, though

              • baseless_discourse@mander.xyz
                1·
                3 个月前

                AFAIK, AMD is not as good as nvidia on Windows. Also because they are less popular, they get less support from program/game developers, which is probably why people are picking nvidia.

                I think even if AMD is strictly better than nvidia, it will still take years for nvidia to fall unfortunately. Look at the AMD v.s. intel problem, Intel has been strictly behind AMD for many years now, yet intel still dominates the laptop market, and doing okay in the desktop market.

                Obviously, this doesn’t mean open-source supporters all need to cave to nvidia. Personally, I will avoid nvidia hardware when I can. But I think we have a long and hard battle ahead of us.

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
          320·
          3 个月前

          Yes. NVIDIA is NEVER going to spend money on your community and it will NEVER be year of the Linux desktop with the planets best GPUs not working.

          Nobodies problem but the Linux community.

            • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
              14·
              3 个月前

              I know, when reality gets in the way, you can summon your inner Steve Jobs and turn up that RDF.

              AMD is the top GPU maker and users are going to ditch Nvidia in droves to adopt Linux desktop.

              • helenslunch@feddit.nl
                3·
                3 个月前

                users are going to ditch Nvidia in droves to adopt Linux desktop.

                If even a fucking smidgeon of all computer users stopped using Nvidia for Linux, they’d probably start supporting them.

                • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  3 个月前

                  No. It’ll take a while lot more than a few. Nvidias IP is worth a metric shit load. They will never open source the entire thing. At best you’ll get small modules of support.

      • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
        3·
        3 个月前

        it’s a Linux issue

        Not a linux’s issue, though. When they don’t have documentation, they can decide not to write a driver, and not to use proprietary drivers too.

        But nvidia doesn’t care about linux, doesn’t target linux. And current “linux communities” can’t do anything but whine.

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
        3·
        3 个月前

        Lmao, Linux developers aren’t allowed to use the proprietary software and firmware unless they’re completely non-profit, and even then if it is too similar to nVidia’s intellectual property it can still be taken down. Only nVidia are authorized to create drivers which use CUDA.

        The hardware manufacturers are intentionally making it difficult to use their own hardware, that’s got nothing to do with Linux, Mac, Windows, or any other Operating System because it was never their job to create drivers for every hardware in the first place.

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
          14·
          3 个月前

          I honestly can’t believe I’m saying this again.

          Does not matter.

          Users want compatibility and ease of use.

          It doesn’t matter if Jenson takes Joe Biden hostage and signs an executive order to make reverse engineering illegal. It’s still the Linux communities road block to adoption.

            • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
              12·
              3 个月前

              Year of the Linux desktop! Amirite! The Linux desktop advocates have to be the most clueless FOSS community out there.

          • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
            2·
            3 个月前

            Users want compatibility and ease of use.

            The distribution can choose not to include proprietary drivers. And not to “fix” it.

            “Ignorance is strength”, isn’t the strength of “linux communities” is enough to take nvidia down?

            • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
              1·
              3 个月前

              And it’ll still be buggy if you don’t choose your hardware correctly, proprietary drivers or not.

    • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
      6·
      3 个月前

      Why we have to care much about software usage. This is the current issue of linux communities, which decrease user qualities.

      Our enemy Microsoft and other “big tech” laugh people like these. They are using linux just like they use windows, even bring the bad, flawed windows culture to linux.

      Don’t let the enemy to laugh at us.

      • marcos@lemmy.world
        8·
        3 个月前

        even bring the bad, flawed windows culture to linux

        Infighting is on the Unix culture since it left the Bell Labs. Or maybe even sooner.

        But the only real enemy of that set is NVidia.

        • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
          1·
          3 个月前

          But the only real enemy of that set is NVidia.

          The only?

          (Windows user that switch to linux and then say: we only need partition for / and /home are also enemies. Windows user that have switch to linux and use root for every task are enemies.)

          • marcos@lemmy.world
            2·
            3 个月前

            Are those ex-Windows users slowing you down in any way?

            And anyway, if you are talking about desktops, I’ve been using only / and /home for about 20 years since I noticed that /boot and /var didn’t bring me any value for a really long time. I’m currently wondering if I shouldn’t ditch /home.

              • marcos@lemmy.world
                11·
                3 个月前

                Wow, I can’t believe I’m reading that first point from a 2018 comment. I’d mock it if it was in 2006.

                You should have backups. Not hedge against 1 in 10 million error conditions.

                The second one is a huge bother in desktops. I never not regretted trying it.

                The third one is a complete non-problem.

                • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
                  2·
                  3 个月前

                  You should have backups. Not hedge against 1 in 10 million error conditions.

                  if a partition isn’t actively written to, it’s less likely to suffer damage

                  The second one is a huge bother in desktops. I never not regretted trying it.

                  ok

                  The third one is a complete non-problem.

                  This is only a problem with OpenBSD. They never encourage using a huge single root partition, and never test it.

                  It have an asterisk, not a -

    • dan@upvote.au
      2·
      3 个月前

      I’ve known some fantastic developers that used Nano as their primary editor. It supports syntax highlighting, linting, and bracket matching (jumping to the matching opening bracket when a closing one is selected, and vice versa), which is enough for some people.

      Sure, it’s no micro, but it’s already installed practically everywhere.

  • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
    222·
    3 个月前

    Hate the irrational hate for Nvidia, Wayland or some desktop . I’m just out here trying to help others figure out their problem and some asshole comments"Nvidia doesn’t work on wayland", “just get an amd card”, “Wayland will never work” or “gsync doesn’t work in Linux with multiple monitors”.

    All of them are equally absurd, the last one largely true on xorg for any GPU. Xorg doesn’t do mixed frame rates. Also it doesn’t help the person who is using an Nvidia card because there are solutions for most issues. Those issues are just not well understood because there was a time Nvidia drivers just didn’t work on wayland etc.

    I hate gatekeepers and purist that just make anyone who might be new to the platform feel attacked or alienated. No one cares about your ideologies if they’re not asking and the idiots that parot it doesn’t prove anything other than your part of the loud minority. Just being kind to one another and being understanding of other peoples decisions can go a long way to growing a healthy supportive community.

    I’m still a little frustrated about the behavior of people when I was trying to help someone setup hardware video acceleration in their browser. And another that wanted to use a different distro but found Nvidia worked best on arch for him.

    • pixelscriptEnglish
      151·
      3 个月前

      I am going to continue to tell people “just get an AMD card”, but only if they have indicated to me that they are shopping for new parts and haven’t committed to any yet.

      Giving that advice to someone who already has an Nvidia card is just as useless as those StackOverflow answers that suggest you dump your whole project architecture and stuff some big dumb library into your build to solve a simple problem.

      • lad@programming.dev
        1·
        3 个月前

        I am planning to shop for new parts (well, strictly speaking I continue to plan for more than a year already, but life gets in the way). I can’t decide between the better compatibility of AMD and (supposedly) more features of Nvidia

        I have just started trying to make sense of the situation searching the internet, but I would appreciate it if you can sum up what’s the pros and cons for my use case: I mostly use GPU for gaming, consider participation in ML crowd sourcing like AI horde, sometimes edit images or video. Plus, I mostly use Win now and want to use Linux in dual boot on the new machine

        • pixelscriptEnglish
          4·
          3 个月前

          Nvidia and AMD broadly cover the same use cases. Nvidia cards are not intrinsically better to my knowledge, Nvidia simply offers ultra high-performance cards that AMD doesn’t.

          If you just need nonspecific games to run decently, a card from either brand will do it. If you need to run the most intensive games there are on unbelievable settings, that’s when Nvidia should be edging out.

          ML dabbling may complicate things. Many (most?) tools are written for CUDA, which is a proprietary Nvidia technology. I think AMD offers a counterpart but I do not have details. You will need to do more research on this.

          • lad@programming.dev
            3·
            3 个月前

            Yeah, researching the last point now, thanks for the heads up about the rest. Probably not going to be running super mega ultra, not potato is already a big step forward 😅

        • imecth@fedia.io
          1·
          3 个月前

          There’s basically only 2 reasons to go for nvidia, rtx and cuda, figure out if you care enough about it to get an nvidia gpu.
          As for postponing shit, just get it over with, there’ll never be a perfect moment to buy your gpu.

          • lad@programming.dev
            1·
            3 个月前

            I was postponing because otherwise I had to carry my GPU in a suitcase instead of a computer case 😅 but I’m almost done moving around, almost

            • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
              2·
              3 个月前

              No need to rush it. I moved recently with an ultra wide 32", 24" and 2 midsized desktop. I ended up with scuff on my ultra wide screen and a gouge on the interior plastics because I closed my hatch on my pc by accident.

              Now I have a lil squiggly dead center of my screen but thankfully no tempered glass mess in the back.

    • cmhe@lemmy.world
      10·
      3 个月前

      Nvidia has created a bit of a sore spot for many Linux Developers and thus users. Through their actions and non actions made it impossible to create FOSS drivers for their hardware that work well and are integrated and tested with the rest of the system.

      Many fresh users don’t seem to recognize the reason why they are having a sub par experience using their hardware is Nvidia and not the open source community. They often blame and complain to the developers of the open source drivers or applications, who either have to hack around hurdles placed by Nvidia or cannot inspect closed source drivers written by that company.

      It is IMO understandable that at some point the community stops providing free and unpaid customer support for hardware and software, they have no control over or don’t even own.

      If you would start paying them, then I suspect you might get better answers. Otherwise you just get information about stuff people are excited about.

    • ElectricMoose@lemmy.world
      9·
      3 个月前

      As a developer, I really don’t like how Wayland has fractured the ecosystem. Competing immature protocols are still all over the place while the immobility of x11 has spoiled us for years. It’s getting better, but in the meantime I can still write an x11 app which will work mostly everywhere (thanks to xwayland), whereas a wayland app may not work everywhere (not on X11, and not on compositors which don’t implement the right combinations of protocols).

      • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
        5·
        3 个月前

        As a user I like no screen tearing, low latency, no soft locks from apps crashing, no softlock when a window is capturing the keyboard while the screen is locked, no weird artifacts from hardware accelerated effects, no app windows blanking out and lagging usually web apps (still happens in XWayland),etc.

        I still miss being able to kill the screen locker from the terminal, made me feel like a hacker.

      • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
        3·
        3 个月前

        Yeah. I’m guilty of doing that to myself, I use Arch and neovim btw. Your perspective kinda changes when someone close to you that wants to switch to Linux she found windows frustrating or start getting into more than just animal crossing and the sims but finds camera controls disorienting or both. (Mother)

        A lot of these new people who want a better experience for themselves but find certain technology issues daunting and they really get the raw end of the deal when they run into the loud minority. I also blame Linux Bros for promising the moon and with no issues.

        It’s about as difficult and as exciting (for some) as switching to Macos for the first time, ask me how I know.

        • Default_Defect@midwest.socialEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          I also blame Linux Bros for promising the moon and with no issues

          This is the one that I see the most when I’m in Linux communities. The guy that knows all of the ins and outs of the software and the hardware and has no problems, telling the person that only has ever used windows that it all just works no matter what. “ALL of your games will work right away AND run better than windows ever did.” but they fail to mention that all they play are games that had good linux support or something.

          • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
            2·
            3 个月前

            I don’t think you get how dxvk and wine work. All games that don’t require rootkits and have Linux support in their flavor of anti cheat will start, about 80% playable potentially with some tweaking or hardware specific fixes and about 20% pretty much work out of the box which is nice. AMD users are probably feeling smug about the aggregate 50% playable with 10% verified steam deck compatible.

            It only runs better as a result of the optimizations done to translate Windows calls to Linux calls as well as translating Direct X into Vulkan or just uses vulkan. So if the game is well optimized Linux is a lot less likely to have an advantage and often suffers in performance a little bit until optimizations for that game are patched into Wine or DXVK about the same as video card drivers in windows.

            On the other hand some poorly optimized games still run just as bad as they do on Windows if the game has issues not related to the graphics stack. Things like Elden Ring play to the strength of the optimizations and presented good results but I like to think of it as the exception and not the rule.

            On average you see a delta of at most 10fps with windows beating Linux or Linux beating windows which even I find surprising sometimes. Maybe lower CPU overhead, the game just runs better being translated into Vulkan, or shader cashing in DXVK has gotten better than some in-house solutions; it’s hard to say.

            • Default_Defect@midwest.socialEnglish
              3·
              3 个月前

              I don’t think you get how dxvk and wine work.

              Clearly, I don’t use Linux. I should have specified that it was an example of the type of comment I see rather than the absolute reality of it. My point was that there’s always a something that the loudest proponents of linux don’t mention simply because they took care of it so long ago that they forgot or its so routine to them they fail to mention it.

              • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
                2·
                3 个月前

                Yeah, I totally agree. Sorry about that. I got pretty excited about the topic because it’s amazing how all my games have worked so far and how it works is interesting. If I was using Windows or MacOS I’d be paying attention but I generally wouldn’t care about the progress.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
      24·
      3 个月前

      It’s not absurd at all. People who buy Nvidia cards to use with Linux are actively supporting a shitty company that is causing them problems.

      Not helping them and recommending they return or sell those cards is turning the tide against the company, regardless of how small.

      This is not about “ideologies” or “being kind”, this is about improving the situation for everyone.

      We should not work to pick up the pieces for a shitty company that doesn’t want to support us, we should encourage people to buy from companies that do, because that will improve things for everyone.

    • scratchandgameTiếng Việt
      21·
      3 个月前

      If you are gems in this limestone community I’d suggest you to get out of Linux instead :)

      • lightnegative@lemmy.world
        310·
        3 个月前

        No way, Debian stable is completely useless as a distro unless you’re in to time machines and like the feeling of being stuck 5 years behind the curve

        • dan@upvote.au
          2·
          3 个月前

          Run Debian testing or get packages from backports if you need newer packages. It’s still more stable than a rolling distro.

          Debian stable is great if you value stability over everything else, for example on a server, or a desktop PC you want to “just work”. Major updates happen around once every 2 years, not 5 years.

        • ReakDuck
          2·
          3 个月前

          If you have a device with a specific usage, then its more than perfect as its stable.

          Only need to draw and write documents on a portable convertable? Suits nicely.

          Want to code on that thing too? Uh. Idk. Use other distro, would be much easier as debian sucks in this category.

            • ReakDuck
              1·
              3 个月前

              But it looks like it can only do Pascal? Like. Sorry but you can’t just come out of the corner and say that coding is great on debian because my special IDE for only one single programming langauge exists.

              What if I don’t want to learn a seventh programming language? What if I want to continue my C++ project in NeoVim? I dont want to rewrite something entirely. Same for PHP, Rust, C, Python.

              Your IDE doesn’t even support the most important way of editing code. Vim mode.

    • alyth@lemmy.world
      3·
      3 个月前

      CoconutOS is the one and only true OS and everyone should be using it and everyone else is wrong.

  • umbrella
    64·
    3 个月前

    Just because we suggest a better option doesnt mean we are your enemy :)