• shyguyblue@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    The body tends to do that when you beat the shit out of it over the course of days.

    Blood clots at the damage point, more beatings break up the clot, platelets gonna platelet and boom, thrombosis.

    • ErC@lemmy.cryptoriot.org
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      3 months ago

      If that would have been the case, the moment the body was given to the mother we would have seen photos of his “beaten up” cadaver on every newpaper in a matter of minutes. Instead we only got minor articles saying “the body was given to the mother” and that’s it. I know this goes against the current “everything that goes against Putin is true” way of thinking, but creating conspiracy theories based on wishful thinking only helps Putin make his points against the “western propaganda”.

  • roguetrick@kbin.social
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    3 months ago

    Being unjustly confined in a prison is still a direct contributing cause to a stroke or pulmonary embolism. There’s a reason they still make folks in solitary in the US do “yard time.”

      • Omega_Haxors
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        3 months ago

        My god I Just noticed. Water has bloodbending, earth has metalbending, fire has lightningbending. Air must have access to fartbending.

          • Omega_Haxors
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            3 months ago

            Filling their belly with so much gas that they blow up and fly away with an eeeeeeeee like a filled balloon you just let go of

  • BennyHill500 [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    3 months ago

    Can’t wait for western intelligence officials, who were always a 100% reliable source to libs and chuds when saying Russia bad, to suddenly be wrong about something in their minds

    • NuclearDolphin
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      3 months ago

      You’re tripping if you think that:

      a. the media will cover this beyond an article or two b. libs would integrate this information, even if covered c. libs would ever question info from US intelligence officials

      I still get libs citing the “Chinese spy balloon” even though the military put out a press release that the balloon transmitted no data. Media never boosted it, so they never saw it. Would be curious to see how they react if they did. I’d still bet on mental gymnastics like “only because cheap Chinese junk lololol”

  • A1kmm@lemmy.amxl.com
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    3 months ago

    A blood clot doesn’t mean there is no foul play. There are plenty of poisons that cause clotting: https://go.drugbank.com/categories/DBCAT000113 - including some that are snake venom components.

    It could also be a consequence of prolonged confinement without much movement. It could also be an eventual consequence of the 2020 poisoning (there is no evidence that Novichok specifically or mild poisoning with other acetylcholinesterase inhibitors causes clots; however, severe poisoning causes respiratory paralysis which causes hypoxia, and that can cause platelet and vascular dysfunction/damage that increases the risk of thrombosis. Not many people ever have been poisoned with Novichok and survived, so the exact sequelae are uncertain).

    Now, there is a question of whether the FSB would want to do a subtle execution or an ambiguous one. They did attempt an obvious one in 2020, given it involved an agent which is clearly associated with the Russian government (although perhaps if he hadn’t made it overseas, that would have never come out). Since then, perhaps Putin and the FSB have less incentive to be brazen. If they didn’t want to send a message, they could have just kept Navalny alive. But maybe ambiguous was a compromise they wanted - it keeps would-be dissidents fearful, but provides the cover of plausible deniability for those who would criticise the killing of a political opponent.

    • lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      Clots can also be caused by injuries. I’m not saying he was beaten or anything but I would be surprised if he wasn’t at some point, probably repeatedly, and possibly recently.

  • _NoName_
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    3 months ago

    Why is this news being given by Ukraine’s intelligence chief? I would assume we’d get it from another vector.

      • vonbaronhans@midwest.social
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        3 months ago

        If a clot was formed due to a poison or something, is that detectable? Or is this one of those things that will always be shrouded in suspicion because we’ll never know if the clot was ‘natural’ or part of a more intentional plot?

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          I mean, you can always posit another hypothesis because it is very difficult to prove a negative, but if a coagulant or something was administered to him, it should turn up on an autopsy. Ultimately, given the position of Ukrainian intelligence here, the more reasonable conclusion is that people die eventually and that’s the extent of the meaning of what happened (or perhaps you could add that the stress of his situation hastened his demise, which is probably true).

    • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      A blood clot from earlier trauma is a possibility. These prisons are known for their brutal regimes, especially against political dissidents.

      • jobby@lemmy.today
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        3 months ago

        LOL. I’m not a Russian bot. I didn’t really see the ‘Ukrainian spy chief’ part.

        • Galli [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          here I am feeling guilty sometimes making a comment halfway through a 200 comment thread before scrolling on to find someone else already made the same joke while this mf making smug comments when they’ve not even read half the headline.

          • jobby@lemmy.today
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            3 months ago

            Sorry?!?! I totally support what the guy stood for. Putin is a shitstain.

            • robinn_IV@hexbear.net
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              3 months ago

              I totally support what the guy stood for.

              Navalny was a driving force in the annual anti-Muslim, antisemitic, anti-immigrant “Russian March” in Moscow. Its central themes are “Take Back Russia,” “Russia for Russians” and “Stop Feeding the Caucasus” — the latter a demand to end federal subsidies to poorer, less-developed, largely Muslim regions of Russia. He has a video ad calling Central Asian and Muslim peoples of the Caucasus in Russia “cockroaches that must be exterminated” while implying people should go out and shoot them.

              • jobby@lemmy.today
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                3 months ago

                Interesting. I guess I, and most other people in the West just assumed he was anti-Putin and therefore good.

                • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  Huh that’s weird that’s exactly what we’ve been saying the entire time and we’ve been called every fucking name in the book by you smug dipshit liberals.

                  Now take this sudden realization that you had no idea about the person until the media told you about him 6 months ago and the media intentionally propped him up as a hero despite all that and apply it to the entire war.

                • zkrzsz [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  This is the time when you should self-reflect about how the West propaganda you into this state. Governments, media lie all the time, why should you trust them when they report about their enemy’s countries?

                • robinn_IV@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  How is that spreading Russian propaganda?!

                  Putin wants to undermine everything Ukraine does and everything their officials say. He wants us to think he killed Navalny in order to boost this message to opponents of Russia, and when a Ukrainian official breaks the truth here you are clinging to Putler’s fantasies. Don’t bother KGB bot, I have personally read every word Anne Applebaum has ever written and would never fall for your underhanded slavic tricks.

                • Sasuke [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  How is that spreading Russian propaganda?!?!

                  wow, you can tell it’s an election year… don’t even bother, i know you and your kremlin bot army are just here to convince me not to vote for hillary again. for the record, it won’t work. i’m voting for her twice this year.

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  I think it’s unfair to someone this credulous, so I will let you in on the fact that they are fucking with you when they call you a Russian bot or whatever. People are just really sick of dealing with ignorant neoliberals who treat Navalny like Tank Man. The other things they said, about him being a fascist, etc., were sincere and have even been covered in overly-sympathetic sources like Atlantic.

            • brainw0rms [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              3 months ago

              I’m curious what you think Navalny stood for, which you claim to totally support? Spoilers, he was an ultra far-right nationalist piece of human garbage.

              • jobby@lemmy.today
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                3 months ago

                I recently understood that he ‘flirted’ with the rightwing many years ago, but didn’t know he still was.

                • NuclearDolphin
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                  3 months ago

                  I know you’re getting roasted in the replies, but this is absolutely what most reasonable people would assume given the media atmosphere in the west right now.

                  It’s just that western media is generally an unquestioning megaphone for the desires of the US national security apparatus because they’ll lose access to information sources if they don’t.

                  It’s always worth exploring information from other sources, especially when it’s about foreign affairs.

                  A good strategy for this is:

                  1. Pick one country opposed to the West on a given issue
                  2. Pick one country that is neither allied or opposed
                  3. Search “<country> top news sites”
                  4. Search the topic on a few of those sites. Translate pages if necessary.

                  I use an RSS feed reader, so when I find a source with English-language version of the site & an RSS feed, I add those to my geopolitics feed, tagging them by country and continent.

          • jobby@lemmy.today
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            3 months ago

            It was late. I was tired. The guy was executed. Slow or fast, he was killed for being a political opponent, and likely tortured in the process.

              • jobby@lemmy.today
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                3 months ago

                Yeah I did. It may have ultimately been a blood clot, but that was almost certainly the result of all the abuse he suffered.

                Putin is personally responsible for his death.

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              3 months ago

              What you’re doing here is interpreting any evidence as supportive of the conclusion you chose at the beginning. You’re making that conclusion unfalsifiable.

              If Russia said he died of natural causes, you’d say they’re lying. Ukraine says the same thing, well this blood clot must be evidence of torture. Why Ukraine wouldn’t jump on that interpretation if it was at all plausible is left unanswered. If he was struck by lightning you’d say Putin used him to test a new superweapon.

              • NuclearDolphin
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                3 months ago

                This situation is interesting and IMO very revealing about Western media.

                1. Russia hates this guy because he’s a fascist and collaborates with the West against the ruling order.
                2. Ukraine hates this guy because he’s a Russian nationalist and supports the war and annexation of Russian-speaking Ukrainian territories.

                So what does Western media do when those interests are at odds? Across the board, they put an enormous effort into supporting him.

                What this reveals is that the interests of Ukraine are much less important to the US & its media apparatus than bludgeoning Russia. All the huffing and puffing about lives lost in Ukraine was not because they are mourning the loss of human life, but because it makes Russia look bad. This became a lot more obvious when they refuse to cover a far larger number of Gazan deaths with the same vigor.

  • PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    What an absolutely believable conclusion announced by an absolutely credible organization that has no motivation except to publish the unvarnished truth.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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      3 months ago

      Oh please do explain to us how Ukrainian military intelligence chief is shilling for Putin. This ought to be good.