A federal judge in Florida ruled a U.S. law that prohibits people from having firearms in post offices to be unconstitutional, the latest court decision declaring gun restrictions violate the Constitution.
U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, a Trump appointee, cited the 2022 Supreme Court ruling “New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen” that expanded gun rights. The 2022 ruling recognized the individual’s right to bear a handgun in public for self-defense.
The judge shared her decision in the indictment that charged Emmanuel Ayala, U.S. Postal Service truck driver, with illegal possession of a firearm in a federal building.
Now do courthouses and see how well that goes.
U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle
…specifically hers.
Restrictions on carry in court houses would likely pass the Bruen test.
I don’t see any reason why a court should be treated any differently though.
Well yeah, the Courts make up rules and tests to advance whatever agenda is on the docket. They work backwards from the result they want.
We all do that. Whether we’re aware of it or not. Some of us are more aware of it than others.
What historical analog can you point to that wouldn’t also apply to post offices?
Banks
Banks are private entities. Apples and oranges.
You know what else is public? Courthouses.
Florida is such a shit hole.
We’re not “such a shit hole”. We’re an exquisite shit hole.
Depressing notion: Florida is the shit hole the rest of the country could easily become
in Florida
surprise! ;)
Edit: Ha ha, downvoted…Florida Man is watching!
We look at Florida the way the rest of the world looks at us.
Yeah, Florida made itself such a reputation, that when there was an article that the law about financial disclosure of politicians passed it just raised questions “what’s the catch?”. People are not used to seeing anything positive coming from that state.
law about financial disclosure of politicians
I’m actually in Florida (but on an Aussie Lemmy instance); you wouldn’t believe the number of politicians, mostly from wealthy beach communities, who are vacating their offices because of that law. It’s a total shit show.
We should make sure it’s also unconstitutional to block guns at:
- Courthouses
- GOP conventions
- Political rallies
- NRA conventions
Jesus Christ. Can you imagine families of the defendant and victim along with the jury all being armed when the verdict gets read at a murder trial?
I’ve been a juror on a murder trial and even with current regulations banning guns, we got armed escorts out the back of the building after the verdict.
The NRA is not part of the government. The constitution does and should have absolutely zero say in what they can and can not bar from their events.
With the exception of the courthouse, those examples are privately owned locations which can currently not allow firearms to their whim. Courthouse gun-free zones are constitutional and reaffirmed via Bruen.
The 3 other examples are: Theaters, arenas, public events reserved via permit, etc.
Depending on the state, any private location can choose to allow firearms and some states have the rule of law in that. In states where disallowing firearms does not have the rule of law, the individual going against the wishes of the location or event can be asked to leave under threat of trespassing as an unwelcomed individual.
Opening up those locations to firearms would also negate all other laws that ban carry on private property or otherwise public properties reserved by a private party as none would qualify as a constitutional gun-free zone.
Oh I’m sure that’s coming.
I wonder how the court would respond to a petition to allow firearms in court rooms. It’s a god-given American freedom, guaranteed by the second amendment right?
It would respond that there are valid reasons not to allow guns in courthouses, which is true.
As for whether there are good reasons to ban guns in post offices, that’s debatable. There certainly were when sending money was a thing but now, I think I agree with the court now. I wouldn’t strongly disagree with keeping the ban either though.
As for whether there are good reasons to ban guns in post offices, that’s debatable
All it takes is one guy with a gun that’s pissed off about a lost package.
That’s true literally everywhere. Pissed at cashier at McDonald’s, pissed at a driver on the street, …
Maybe don’t give guns to people with anger issues.
As for whether there are good reasons to ban guns in post offices, that’s debatable.
All it takes is one guy with a gun that’s pissed off about a lost package.
That’s true literally everywhere.
Yep, including Post Offices.
Yep, which is why you can’t annul 2A by saying there is some small reason to not have them everywhere.
If you want to repeal the 2A, pass a new ammendment. Of course you can’t because most people are not irrationally scared of guns.
Cool, so the place that mass shootings in the US began, and coined its own phrase, now must allow armed nut jobs inside. What could go wrong!?
The USPS has been abused by DeJoy, another trump appointee, who filled the fleet with more gas vehicles with less efficiency than previous models. That and removing public mail boxes for “reasons that totally didn’t have to do with mail-in voting helping Democrats win elections, promise.”
It wasn’t just blue boxes, he also shut down sorting machines, slowing mail processing in another attempt to delay mail-in ballots. Luckily we weren’t sending these off to get sorted at the plant and would take them to the town hall directly which probably helped circumvent a lot of late ballots. Can’t say this was done in every office but in my local area I know we did that.
Edit: a word
It may have a little to do with voting, but it’s ultimately just the logistics lobby flexing their influence to further weaken the USPS. End game is privatization of the mail for the short term, but ideally dissolution of the service altogether to remove the public option that helps keep consumer shipping prices in check.
The timing of a Trump crony shutting down mail sorting machines during the largest mail in election in history shortly after being appointed by Trump isn’t a coincidence. I agree with the rest of your statement, though.
Quite literally all but 1 came after the 1972 ban.
Also yet another bootlicking judge leaving the guy charged with nothing but resisting arrest.
Going postal now legal in Florida.
This is a ridiculous ruling, but the reason the ban on guns in post offices makes many gun owners so angry is that unlike pretty much any other no-gun zone laws, it includes all of the property, including the parking lot.
So if a licensed person removes their gun and leaves it in the car so they can go into the post office, they’ve still committed a felony by parking there.
So instead they’ll park in the street. And if the lot is mostly empty and there’s a car parked in the street in front of the post office, it’s a bright neon sign to thieves that breaking into that car will score them a gun.
Turns out there’s a surprisingly simple way to avoid that whole situation…
Oh man, i lol’d hard at this comment–thank you! 🥂
Some people are required to carry firearms. If your job is armed security, you shouldn’t have a potential felony charge for going to the post office after work and dropping a letter in the night drop with your gun locked in the car.
Just have federal buildings follow the laws of the states they’re in regarding the definition of premises for firearms. That is - apply it to the buildings, but not to the cars in the parking lot.
You shouldnt take the gun you use for work home. That would solve it.
What’s a more secure place for a firearm? Unattended in a locker or actively in the possession of the person licensed to have it?
Locker 100%
How so? Where do you keep your wallet? How about your keys?
The most secure place to store something isn’t to leave it unattended. It’s to actively have it on your person.
Do you take everything valuable from your house and your car with you from wherever you go? Or do you just lock them up and leave them unattended? Lol
The most secure place to keep something is to leave it locked up in a safe place. A person can get robbed…even if they have a gun, lol
I don’t take my wallet and keys with me to secure them. I take them with me because there is a good chance I’ll want to use them.
See you think that. But I don’t think you know the people I know. Even the military locks up guns when they aren’t in use.
Or, and I know this is radical, lock your job weapon up at your office.
FWIW, the amount of security guardsin Florida is pretty small at 0.4032%. I don’t know the percent of those who carry for work, but the number of cops that carried (all data 20/21/22) was also small at 0.246%. Combined, that gets us to the measurable number of Job Guns at .649% of the population in 21/22.
The idea that these people’s hindrances should even be acknowledged, let alone come into consideration when making or tossing out laws, is fucking absurd.
That’s common to all federal property though. I’ve literally never been to a federal property that wasn’t posted for no guns anywhere on the property.
Not all. They carved out an exception for National Parks that has the land adopting the rules of the state in which they’re located, with the firearm bans only in place in buildings. They need to do the same with Corps of Engineers parks and post offices.
So, the exception. And it’s wilderness area.
Wilderness Area is an entirely different designation from a national park. They aren’t administered by the park service but instead by the Forest Service and they don’t typically come with amenities/facilities apart from trailhead parking lots, usually a trail system and sometimes designated campsites and the like. Just FYI. Not that it really matters in this context.
Well yeah, except all of the interior land management agencies have wildernesses they mandate. Park, Forest, BLM, and even Fish and Wildlife.
Sooooo, you just leave your gun at home since there is no good reason to carry it around everywhere?
Seriously what’s up with Americans and police? In other countries people trust the police because frankly, they can, but also frankly, because they’re not insane. Yes, insane, because the obsession people have with guns is insane,and the obsession with safety and freedom is insane as well
It’s about consistency of laws. Depending on whether you park in the lot or 15-feet away in the street you’re either compliant with the law or subject to a 10-year prison sentence.
This is the problem with having an honest discussion about firearms policies. The reason gun owners refuse to work with the other side for some easy wins (universal background checks, expansion of NICS, enforcement of ownership restrictions, etc) is because the anti-gun crowd won’t take a minor victory and jumps straight to the “You’re a fucking crazy redneck” argument instead of talking about realistic solutions and what will be most effective. They let their idea of perfect be the enemy of good, while simultaneously making arguments from a place of profound ignorance regarding firearms, and the laws we do end up with in liberal states ban things like thumb-holes in stocks or require technology that doesn’t exist.
Straw purchases are still stupidly easy because the political left is frothing about firearms that are used in fewer homicides than blunt objects, a “gun show loophole” that doesn’t even exist (an FFL must still do background checks if selling off-site), and muzzle decides designed to prevent hearing damage from firearms that are still louder than a jackhammer.
Meanwhile 99-dollar zinc guns designed and used for murder are sold in piles to straw buyers who then sell them to convicted criminals and nothing is done about it.
These people are out of their fucking minds. Nothing’s ever enough.
This whole Bruen standard is revisionist history at it’s worst too. For example states were straight up banning conceal carry in the decades after the Constitution was written and ratified.
If we did that now they’d come up with some bullshit story about Paul Revere or something.
Also their logic for everything doesn’t scale. They’ll say, “sure! post offices are a-ok!” but then be like “well obviously you shouldn’t be able to bring a loaded handgun into the cabin of a commercial flight, or attend a presidential speech with a sniper rifle.” And their gun friendly politicians definitely ban guns at their rallies and conventions.
And everybody loves being an originalist on the issue until you start talking about the whole “well regulated militia” component of the amendment.
I live in the EU now and sure we have illegal guns in this country, but the fact is that the firearm homicide rate per capita is 27 times higher in the US than it is here. And gun suicides rates are over 30 times higher per capita in the US. When someone gets shot here it’s big fucking news. You don’t have to worry about some kind of drunken social transgression erupting into gunfire.
The US is fucking ridiculous on this topic.
It’s easy to understand the US if you look at politicians like race drivers… With sponsor patches on their suits.
I need a gun when I go to the post office to protect myself from the postal workers when they decide to go postal.
Similarly, going postal is back on the table!
The case was literally about a postal worker… I was flabbergasted haha.
Do you think the people who decided to shoot up their place of work would change their mind because the government made guns illegal in their place of work? Like the only reason they’re not comitting to a mass shooting and suicide is because they may get arrested for carrying in a no carry zone? I can’t really see this making going postal any more a thing than it is currently.
Post office workers’ safety ruled uNcONStItuTiONaL
Jesus fucking Christ guys
I WILL FIGHT FOR MY FREEDOM IN THE POST OFFICE
NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO TAKE MY GUNS
/s
Bunch of scared insecure children on the right. Recommend a listen to Malcolm Gladwell 6 part series on gun violence for the history of the rights obsession with 2A.
So the reason she used in her ruling is that the law about not having guns in post offices was passed in 1972. Which is pants on head crazy. Under that reasoning it’s not about what powers to regulate there were traditionally. It’s about specific case details, like qualified immunity. The federal government has absolutely maintained an ability to say no guns in sensitive areas from day 1 of the USA. But because they didn’t get around to post offices until 1972, it’s illegal to make guns illegal in post offices.
Which is not the standard SCOTUS set in Bruen. According to their standard it would be sufficient to prove early Americans would approve of such laws by finding similar laws. Not requiring that they had the same exact law.
