You should listen to your friend Barry, he’s really good at running campaigns
Edit: Ha ha; I knew those downvotes were coming! :)
Relying on the anti-Trump vote is pretty ineffectual with an anti-Biden vote growing.
I was going to say this, the way Biden is handling the border crisis is turning a lot of NYC, Chicago, and Denver voters off (and more, those are just hit pretty hard lately.) EDIT: Check out the mayor of NYC’s polling numbers. They are the lowest since polling began. It is the worst administration in NYC’s history because of the migrant crisis handling. I can confirm with links but not sure what good that would do if people have made up their own minds.
Really? It seems to me Joe’s support of the Palestinian Genocide is hurting him more than any made-up fox news bullshit.
Is this the border crisis coming from Canada that happens every election season? I miss when no one gave a shit.
Oh yeah. The border crisis. That’s the real kicker.
So many 2020 voters picked Biden for his border commitments.
There are so many MAGAtrumpers here with the “gEnOciDE jOe” nonsense that are seemingly unaware that their believed king will do the exact same thing, only with him- they get a side-order of bigotry, racism, oppression, tyranny, and cowardice.
I hope you will all be happy with your lateral move on this single-issue decision. Because YOU will be who gets the blame when Trump wins the throne.
Obama to Biden: “There’s room on the right.”
Exactly. People in here keep pretending Democrats “want” to move to the left. They don’t. They love being procorporate fascist light pieces of shit.
The Democrats honestly brought this on themselves.
Bernie Sanders was by far the most popular candidate in 2016, but Hillary ultimately won the nomination purely on superdelegates because the system is crooked and apparently the Clinton dynasty had to continue. It’s a substantially different world, and the Clintons have heavily fallen out of public favour, which is why Hillary failed to get elected.
Sanders had another chance in 2020, this time the party members threw Bernie under the bus and chose to counter one senile fossil with another.
Yes Bernie Sanders would’ve been the oldest candidate, but Biden hasn’t exactly aged gracefully and seems to be even more forgetful than Trump.
I don’t think Biden has a chance of winning this year’s election unless by some landmark supreme court miracle, Trump is struck off from the ballot and the Republican Party is forced to hastily select another candidate. Even then I think someone like Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Ron DeSantis or Rick Santorum would thrash Biden in the polls.
And if Trump wins, I fear the Fascist takeover that will follow.
Hillary Clinton won the primaries by popular vote by 55% to 43%. If you want to point at some shitfuckery against Sanders, you first have to look at a mass media that has historically ignored the interests and issues of working class people, promoted people and opinions that would argue against any kind of large change, and given better coverage to non-leftist candidates, because the owners to that media want it to defend their own interests, not serve as neutral vehicles of discussions in a democratic society.
Biden hasn’t exactly aged gracefully and seems to be even more forgetful than Trump.
Can’t forget if you never knew! 🤯☝️
He did know he was very openly racist
To “Keep Trump out” there are only two realistic options: either one single person, Joe Biden, changes his actions as POTUS (starting with his continued material support for the Genocide in Palestine) or millions of Americans have to go against their principles and vote for him.
It seems to me that if the members of the Democrat-tribe doing the rounds telling people they “should vote for Biden otherwise Trump wins” genuinelly wanted to “Keep Trump out” they would instead be pressing hard for that one, single man to start listenning to voters and act differently, rather than go for the much, much harder option of getting millions of Americans to swallow their principles so that this one single man can keep on acting the same way he does now.
Seems to me that keeping Trump out is secondary to Biden not having to listen to voters and continue to act freely as he feels like, even if that’s so against the wishes of millions of Americans that previously voted for him that they even find those actions unprincipled and repugnant.
Lol
Meta: Is this community for US specific news or just any news?
Yes.
Running Biden is the best thing democrats can do to guarantee a Trump presidency.
When the plan is to lose, you gotta make it look credible to maintain the theatre.
Wdym the plan is to lose?
There’s two options: either Biden is intentionally trying to lose or too stupid to recognize the people he’s depending on to win absolutely hate him
I get it. He’s old, he’s on the “wrong side” of Israel/Palestine, etc. Doesn’t fucking matter. It’s a binary choice, you got Brandon or you got trump. And if you can’t accept that stark reality, you’re probably too stupid to impose your opinion on others.
Know who else is on the wrong side of the Israel/Palestine conflict? No matter who wins, Palestinians lose, because a Trump administration will absolutely let the IDF go gloves off.
The real problem here is that the majority of voting Americans have been manipulated by narrow interests to support the wrong side. Fucking idiots and their fairy tales.
The real real problem is the millions of people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries forcing us all into this situation today. Fuck those people.
You gotta be dumber than dogshit if you think any prez from either party wouldn’t do exactly as Brandon is doing. Why the fuck do you think he’s doing this? hint: it’s because he’d lose more votes if he didn’t support Israel.
it’s because he’d lose more votes if he didn’t support Israel.
Then all the people who said we can push Biden to the left were lying and I’m not going to vote for him again.
Have fun shooting yourself in the dick.
Have fun defending people voting for procorporate trash in the 2020 primaries.
I’m voting Biden, but again, we are here because Biden is fucking old. The Democrats should have made an effort to bring in new candidates. The only reason to keep Biden in place is to keep Trump off. But also the wars happening now are all from Biden’s generation. So maybe it’s fine, he should fix those things.
We had a vigorous primary, many interesting candidates in '19-20 (Bernie leading easily until SC, Warren backstab, pandemic). Before Super Tuesday, Democrat primary voters were told to unite around Biden, and they did. So that was… weird, but maybe I can blame pandemic.
Biden’s been more progressive than I would’ve imagined, and is surrounded by decent people, so I’m not concerned about his ancient brain quite yet. The other option is… religious fascism, destruction of govt, civil war, T**** family dictatorship, etc. Let’s go Brandon, I guess.
Fuck everyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries.
…said the trumper.
Call me whatever you want. If you don’t need my vote then ignore me. If you do then fucking pay attention.
Look kid. You do what you want. It’s your vote. That’s what democracy is. But don’t get used to it. Because when it’s gone, it won’t be illegal to blame you for it.
Anybody who doesn’t like the rape apologist supports Trump 😭😭😭
Everyone seems to hate Clarence Thomas but doesn’t seem to remember Biden grilling Anita Hill.
It’s almost like the guy above you is complaining that we had many better options during the 2020 primary, but people like you voted for a dogshit candidate that is literally losing in the polls to an overt fascist.
So when democracy is gone, I personally will blame people who saw how much a threat Trump was and thought fucking Joe Biden was the best choice.
Exactly. And if you ask people why they voted for Joe Biden they’ll come right out and say it: They wanted to fight against the interests of progressives and leftists. Then they have the gall to turn around and act like we’re on the same side in the general.
Look kid.
Look Boomer. You voted for a procorporate trash candidate in the 2020 primaries. That was your decision. You’re responsible for how they do in the general election. I’m not responsible for how your garbage candidate performs.
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Then why did the democrats not impeach him based on the Mueller Report?
Hillary Clinton hired Christopher Steele to do oppo research against Trump, this became known as the Steele Dossier and contained a number of accusations on Trump. After the election the FBI started a serious investigation on if these accusations were true, and after two years the Mueller Report concluded that none of the serious allegations against Trump could be verified. This is why the Democrats (who had a majority in the house at that time) decided not to impeach, there was nothing there.
Russia did try to influence the election, but this does not mean Trump was complicit, and no proof of this was found.
“Then why did the democrats not impeach him based on the Mueller Report?”
They did. Where have you been.
They did not, they impeached him twice: once on Ukraine and once on jan 6. Never on Russia; never on the Mueller report.
The Muller Report explicitly asked Congress to investigate further. Muller stated that Justice Department policy tied his hands to look any further into a sitting President.
Barr then gets ahead of it saying “this is a nothingburger”. That becomes the media narrative before anyone outside the Justice Department can actually read it. One which you’re now repeating. Impeachment isn’t like a court case; it is primarily a political process. Barr knew this, and to this day, Trump had no clue how much Barr saved his ass.
Read the Muller Report, not the headlines. It is a damning document.
Mueller Report, vol. I, p. 173: “Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.”
What Bar said is irrelevant, I’m basing my statements on the Mueller report.
Nope, you’re cherry picking. Muller didn’t establish that because he didn’t wasn’t allowed to go further. Here’s the complete paragraph of that very quote:
"As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel’s investigation established that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities. "
So even if there was no direct collusion, there sure as hell was a deliberate campaign by Russia to support Trump. The only thing Muller was blocked from establishing was if the Trump Campaign was talking to the Russians directly, or if Russia merely saw a Trump Presidency as being in their interests and worked on their own. Again, Muller was not allowed to follow up any deeper than he did.
You can’t impeach someone who isn’t in office
The wording of the Mueller report wasn’t a slam dunk for Democrats to impeach with. There was no smoking gun, just that in all likelihood, Trump colluded with Russian agents in undermining the election. His children met directly with Russians to discuss manipulating voters, but Trump is Teflon Don and apparently was never in any of those meetings. We all believe him of course.
There’s little evidence that Russia did anything worse than any other special interest group.
But you don’t care when corporations do it.
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Russiagate is just the Ziodiac Killer coming out against Jeffrey Dahmer’s heinous actions. It’s a joke.
That’s not the joke here.
I will vote for Biden if he ends his support for genocide. That’s it. That’s all I need to vote for him. I just want that one thing, even after he let me down by breaking the rail strike and continuing brutal anti-immigration and doing nothing abiut over policing and expanding American oil and stopping peace negotiations in Ukraine.
Just this one thing.
If that’s too much to ask, he won’t get my vote.
Unfortunately the alternative is a literal wannabe-dictator. By not voting, you’re basically helping Trump.
I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s a genocide collaborator! Would Trump be worse? Maybe - it’s unclear, because at least Democrats would oppose Trump. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history, Trump inspires Democrats to actually ask for more, Trump will further isolate America (and Israel) geopolitically, it’s hard to predict.
I’m not voting for him, I’m actually voting Democrat down ticket, but if he wins it’s not the end of the world. It’s an opportunity.
In the meantime? Withholding my vote is literally the only way I can exert pressure on Biden. I have a moral obligation to oppose genocide. I won’t vote for it. If he’s smart he’ll reverse course on Israel to save his campaign and this will all be moot. Why is Biden helping Trump win?
You don’t need to exert pressure on Biden. You need to help push the entire system back to the left. When Democrats in general are in government, it allows more room for further left candidates. Just like how electing Republicans made room for the Tea Party and the MAGA crazies. If the window had been more toward the left, they’d have been outside the Republican party.
I’m voting Democrat down ticket. I’m just not voting for genocide Joe.
That’s the only way I can exert any pressure on him, and I don’t have to wait a year for that pressure to manifest. If enough Democrats had the courage to stand up to Biden he’d be forced to change his policies. Instead, you are all choosing to be complicit in genocide.
Not voting is a valid choice, one that says you’re okay with either candidate winning. And that is being complicit with genocide. If you’re not okay with that, vote.
If you don’t want to wait a year, you can call, write, protest, and donate to groups to do those things on your behalf. But to throw away your vote is incredibly short-sighted.
I’m voting for Democrats down ticket, hardly throwing it away. I’m just not voting for any pro-genocide candidates.
And if Biden is smart, he’ll see how much support he’s losing and change his policy towards Israel.
Biden is an empty suit. If the party tells him to change, he’ll change.
Alternatively, Trump wins and everything gets even shittier, and we lose even the possibility for things to get better.
The solution to our choices being a centrist and a literal fascist isn’t to push the Overton window even further right. Such thinking is beyond naive.
What centrist? All I see are two fascists, because genocide sure as fuck isn’t centrist.
You don’t have to be fascist to be genocidal. The two just tend to overlap.
Bro you understand Biden isn’t president of Israel right? This tired ass take that he somehow sets policy there shows how immature and uninformed you are.
I really do wonder how old the person you’re commenting to is. It’s very easy to be idealistic when you’re young and lack experience. Eventually you learn that you’re basically the same as the Freedom Caucus of the left if you’re acting that way, refusing to compromise and make any positive changes whatsoever.
Israel is the 51st state. This idea that Israel is a strong independent state that doesn’t need the empire is a joke, they’re wholly dependent on the US. When Reagan told Israel to back off of attacking the PLO in Lebanon, they did. Israel’s power comes from its untouchable status.
ROFL!
>By not voting, you’re basically helping Trump.
only a vote for trump helps trump
As a non American, seeing people claim that not voting doesn’t help republicans is fucking hilarious. You’d think that after Trump winning in 2016 and stacking the supreme court, directly being the cause of abortion being outlawed in red states in the fucking 21st century (along with a host of other horrifying things), would make people actually fucking vote. But no here we are. Honestly I really hope you all get the government you want, but the longer I read politics posts on Lemmy the more I’m aghast at people who’d rather let it all burn down than aim for incremental positive change.
Apologies for any bad English, just putting my thoughts out there.
I wonder why republicans spend so much time trying to get people not to vote. Purging rolls, being against mail in voting, closing polling stations, etc. Seems dumb given that people not voting doesn’t help them.
Oh well. You probably know more about elections than them. Glad we have an expert in the house.
if you have something to say, say it. what I said was true.
I think my meaning was quite clear. You are a fool if you think suppressing the vote doesn’t help republicans. They’ve bet everything knowing that people not voting is good for them.
So congrats, you are helping elect our new fascist overlords by not voting for the unpalatable, but not fascist, dude that is on offer. It sucks, but grow the fuck up. Trump winning is going to be a disaster for literally everyone, including Palestinians.
I’m going to probably be voting for cornel west, but I could still be won back by Jill Stein.
neither of those votes help Trump
Cool.
Great way to throw away a vote against fascism voting for candidates with literally zero chance of winning.
Look up why the Nazis came to power sometime. Part of it was that people refused to rally around a single countervailing force. Biden is the countervailing force that has a chance of winning. Trump is literally opening quoting Nazis at this point and people aren’t fucking alarmed. smh
Biden is most definitely fascist
Sure.
Unfortunately, center right wing democrats have been screaming this at the top of their lungs for so long, young people no longer care.
They will not vote blue no matter who, and you yelling whatever malarkey you’re on about is kind of pathetic.
Biden needs to fundamentally change a few things if he wants to get the support of young people. Supporting genocide is not going to win him the election. Not only does Biden support the genocide, he used his authority to give them more weapons and money without having to ask Congress. This isn’t going to fly with young people. And Biden needs young voters to win this election.
I get it that you’ve been voting blue no matter who your whole life and you think younger voters need to do the same thing.
But your way of thinking is a relic.
Man these libs suuuuure hate when you question their doctrine huh?
Here’s a question for the one or two thinkers in this thread. I don’t want replies, because replies will carry with them egos and snark for the peanut gallery. These questions are for you, (and no-comprendo’s). Questions i had rolling around in my liberal brain before i transitioned to full troll or whatever liberals call leftists these days, questions that take time and reflection to answer.
-
If the Democrats only campaign to stop Republicans, but DON’T STOP the Republicans (only campaign to stop them), then when do we dem voters get to vote to help ourselves? Is there a timeline?
-
It has been 12 years of presidents, 12 long years of waiting, tightening our belts, “fighting for democracy”. Why does it seem like the voters are the only ones interested in preserving it?
-
The DGA and the HRC campaign both have paper trails showing they’ve attempted to elevate extremism in the Republican party. Considering this is still a tactic in use, here’s the million dollar question:
-
If the Democratic party could, would they keep running against a candidate like Trump every single election in the future?
Edit: thank you, those of you who are thinking. We need more people out there like you doing that
It has been 12 years of presidents, 12 long years of waiting, tightening our belts, “fighting for democracy”. Why does it seem like the voters are the only ones interested in preserving it?
So you were happy with first term Obama but not second term Obama?
Am I reading this right?
Lol you’re right. I was on a roll and added a whole term, oops! Let’s pretend i meant to include bidens second term, which makes me right and not wrong
You were happy with second term Obama?
Indeed, I even voted for Obama second term. Was i as happy with him as the first time? Nah, but i was still a registered dem back then
-
You think Trump will “end the genocide”?
He will go even harder on “USA needs to support Israel defending God’s promised land”.
Remember he is the one who moved the US embassy to support Netanyahu’s agenda.
Trump did say what he would have done, but given it’s Trump he’d probably not do what he said:
Trump criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, lauded Hezbollah militants as “very smart” and sought political gain from the attacks that killed 1,200 people by claiming that if the last election was not “rigged,” he’d be the American president and they’d never have happened.
THIS!!! Omg this! I wish I could agree more!
I am astounded by how polarized the younger generation is. It’s all, or nothing with them and they can’t see how badly that is going to fuck us up.
Hey kids….
LIFE EXISTS WITHIN THE GREY AREA. There’s a thing called NUANCE.
Deciding to not vote for THE ONE PERION CAPABLE OF KEEPING AMERICA FROM BEING A DICTATORSHIP because of a single issue… is flat-out FUCKING STUPID.
Get your heads out of your ass!
It’s not one issue buddy. We’ve had lots of issues with Biden. You’re just so far into denial you’re not hearing us.
Go ahead and list the issues you think would be worse than what Trump has done, and promises yet to do.
We’ll all wait here.
Of course Biden wouldn’t be worse than Trump. I don’t care? You’ll have to do better than that if you want my vote. Millions of people had that opportunity in the 2020 primaries and they chose to vote for a procorporate piece of trash. Fuck those people. If they think they can ignore us in the primaries then we’ll ignore their shit candidate in the general. Don’t like it? That’s how democracy works.
You’re not getting how this works.
You’re not voting for Biden? YOU’RE GETTING TRUMP.
You don’t get to pretend that not voting means you nothing will happen. Right now- you either drink the piss, or you eat the shit. You don’t get to chose neither.
So either move to another country, or pick one.
You don’t get to chose neither.
Right, my choice was made for me by selfish pieces of shit in the 2020 primaries who chose a procorporate trash candidate. They can go fuck themselves.
Yeah, every president has a lot of issues. You’re just demonstrating that you don’t care about electing a dictator.
So you admit what you just said is a lie? You knew all along we didn’t have just one issue with Biden but you’re out here saying it because you’re a liar? Great. Glad we cleared that up.
With Biden, Democrats are mostly falling in line behind the genocide. It’s a bipartisan genocide, with even Bernie being unwilling to support a ceasefire. With Trump, on the other hand, Democrats would reverse course and actually support a ceasefire to obstruct Trump.
-but that’s all speculation. I don’t know, for sure, that it would happen that way. What I do know is I won’t vote for genocide, and I will withhold my vote unless Biden changes his policy on Israel. I won’t vote for Trump, I’ll even vote Dem down ticket, but I won’t vote for genocide.
You, on the other hand, are literally voting for genocide if you support Biden. You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.
This is the most naive comment I’ve ever seen in my damn life.
“When you grow up sweatie you’ll understand you need to vote for genocide to stop fascism.” 🤡
We must always always always vote for the turd in every election, for if the turd doesn’t win we’ll be stuck with turd plus vomit.
Maybe it’s time you stop voting for the lesser of two evils and rise up.
So what is your alternative? Don’t choose the lesser evil and accept the greater evil? What rising up are you doing?
rise up to…?
Rise Up!!!
(complain on the internet)
ROFL!
You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.
That’s exactly what you are doing. You’re focusing on this one issue, retreating yourself from the binary decision because neither options stands for what you (or I, or morality) would prefer. Completely ignoring that withdrawing from the choice plays into the hand of the infinitely worse candidate. So by not choosing, you do nothing to stop the situation in Gaza, but might actually make things a lot worse for people all over.
You can virtue signal that you did not compromise on your believes, while actually helping your country make a worse place.
You’re focusing on this one issue
We’ve raised lots of issues. The amounts of the stimulus checks, the way he fucked us over with the BBB, the way he negotiated down for student loan forgiveness, for fucking over the rail workers. The list goes on. Every time we mention something we get shut down. For someone who wants our votes so badly you have a really odd way of showing it.
Now imagine all of that, with a splash of military enforced laws, harder anti-LGBTQ+ laws, defunding the EPA, pulling out of many international agreements, abortion in ANY circumstance being a criminal act….
Read up on his plans before you do a thing stupid like… NOT voting.
The stupid thing was to vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries. Those people can go fuck themselves.
Ahhh… so you’re a trumper.
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Like I said, there are so many other issues that Biden has betrayed me on. This is just the red line. Here and no further.
You will let Biden do anything he wants to you and beg for more, just to stop Trump. It’s revolting.
If enough Democrats pressured Biden to endorse a ceasefire by withholding their votes, he would! He’s a politician. That’s what politicians do. This is our only leverage! This is all we can do to stop the genocide, and I really think Biden would reconsider if it looked bad enough.
Why would anyone endorse a ceasefire? Hamas is firing more rockets at Israel just today.
A ceasefire means both sides stop. If you want Hamas to stop firing rockets, you want a ceasefire.
Good job playing into the hands of the conservatives. If they can’t get your vote they’ll push arguments like yours in order to win.
Good job playing into the hands of the conservatives.
Tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on.
Good job playing into the hands of Zionists, they need you in order to continue the genocide.
This is dumb and self-righteous. It’ll be 100 times worse with Trump and we all know this.
We slide farther to the right with each passing year regardless of which party wins. You all seem fine with the direction so we’re just upping the timeline. If you want to go in a different direction tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on. And tell anyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries they’re a fucking asshole.
It’ll be 100 times worse with Trump and we all know this.
Really? Why not a million times? A billion!
🤡
I thank god I’m not this illiterate. What do you think Trump’s policy is gonna be? He caters to Republicans who WANT funding to Israel. He pushed the Overton window. What do you think he’s gonna do? Is he gonna weave them baskets and pick them flowers? 🤔
Because the population in Iran is roughly 100 times the population in Palestine.
Posting clown emojis just makes you look like a clown. Use your words.
But why did this particular flare up in the Palestine-Israel conflict be the hill you’ll die on? Why, for example, didn’t Bidens support for the Saudis against the Houthis, which is much worse by most standards, put you off?
Secondly: how do you think you’re helping the Palestinians by helping to replace Biden with Trump?
It was Biden going around Congress to give Israel more bombs blow up civilians that really set me off. He didn’t do that for Saudi, he didn’t do it for Ukraine, and he certainly doesn’t do shit like that for Americans who need him to bypass Congress.
Second, I don’t think Trump will be any better or worse than Biden on Palestine. That’s why I’m not voting for him.
But I will not vote for genocide. I’d rather die.
(and I might, since I’m a trans communist in a red state)
Are you sure Trump won’t be worse on Palestine? He was doing their diplomatic legwork all through his term. Moved the embassy to cement Israel’s claim over Jerusalem.
Biden went around congress and stopped weapon sales to Saudi Arabia thus stopping their genocide in Yemen.
Trump actually vetoed congress on the same issue so the genocide could continue.
Effectively, by refusing to stop Trump to spite Biden, you are choosing for two genocides instead of one. On top of all the other things.
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Well in the real worreldd, US voters are too weak to fix a broken democratic system. This should be addressed by, best chance, taking over the dnc from within and moving towards a supermajority that supports a better system.
But today, tomorrow,… Untill that is fixed: the trolley problem is real. To give someone else control of the trolley does nothing to fix the systemic problem. You might think so. Your gut tells you letting things explode might wake up enough people to start a revolution. But history shows it doesn’t.
You can vote to limit genocide and work towards fixing the system, without compromising the other
Derail the trolley dawg.
You’re not only supporting the same genocide with a vote for Trump, you’re also supporting bigotry, oppression, misogyny, racism, and cowardice.
And make no mistake- your stubborn refusal to vote against a tyrant over a single issue is what allows said tyrant to rule America.
We WILL blame you if Trump wins.
Look at this closely people.This is the misinformation campaign for the election.
Both sides support this war, this stance that a republican would do anything different is laughable.
This is the rhetoric that will be blasted all around social media creating a bullshit narrative of a rational liberal “taking the high ground” and encouraging others to follow by voting blue for everyone but Joe Biden.
I’ve been seeing a lot of this lately and I agree, it definitely feels like an astroturf campaign.
Most single issue voters are focused on domestic issues such as abortion or the economy. And you would think that someone who cares so much about Israel would also be worried about other aspects of foreign policy such as Ukraine.
The whole premise is ridiculous. And I think it speaks to Biden’s success as a president that this is the best campaign they can come up with.
Look at this closely people.This is the misinformation campaign for the election.
I dunno, is it that crazy to think the venn diagram of liberal voters and people that hate genocide are a near-perfect circle?
Biden doing an end-around Congress to send more weapons, while we can all see how they are being used seems like a misinformation campaign?
Frankly, why would voicing distaste for Biden or ones intention not to vote for him cause people to do the same??
Like are you changing your mind right now? Of course not. A passionate person such as yourself should be even more determined to vote for Biden knowing i will not.
I hate the bullshit shutdown tactic of calling an opinion an astroturf campaign.
It’s meant to keep voting democrats that are on the fence at home.
It’s not just voicing distaste, it’s providing a rational justification to this voter pool which appeals to a “morality of the left” mindset of not voting for a candidate because of singular issues even though the totality of the candidate is much better than the alternative.
It’s also providing a bad-faith argument. Another Trump presidency would completely back this and potentially fuel an internal racial cleansing once the cult gets new talking points on who the bad people are.
It’s meant to keep voting democrats that are on the fence at home.
Meant? My comments are 'meant to do something? This just sounds goofy. Who actually thinks this way except pollsters and astroturfers? I have opinions, wrong and right, i share all of them on the Internet.
it’s providing a rational justification to this voter pool which appeals to a “morality of the left” mindset
I want to talk to you more deeply about this. Do you believe other people on lemmy are so credulous and yet so uninformed, so lacking in morality that reading about my opinion on it will sway them? These people are also voters that definitely vote normally, but are also so easy to manipulate that my words make them stop?
It’s also providing a bad-faith argument. Another Trump presidency would completely…
Stop.
A bad faith argument would be to say that there are only 2 choices, but that really there is only one choice.
That any argument against your belief is astroturf or a lie to help the opposition.
That states a guess of what the other candidate would have done as fact.
Who out of the two of us has done these things?
Vote Biden! Vote hard, cuz i won’t. You, in the meantime need to stop talking, you do more harm than good to your cause.
Meant to do something?
Not your comments, the other’s comments.
Do you believe other people reading about my opinion will sway them?
Yes I believe that there are people who will make decision opinion based on the social media discourse they read in the coming months. I would estimate its 15% of the voting population.
A bad faith argument would be to say that there are only 2 choices, but that really there is only one choice.
It is a bad faith argument because regardless of who is president, American Congressional support for Israel will continue. The original poster implied that by not voting, genocide would be avoided.
Vote hard cuz I won’t
Cool, if you’re not voting your opinion doesn’t matter.
It matters enough for you to write a point-for-pointer debunking it, tho. I wonder why
Your thoughtless disrespect, misrepresenting of op’s position, and besmirching the intelligence of your fellow voters notwithstanding, the time you spent on your opus makes me happy, believe it or not.
I hope you have a nice night :D
Not your comments, the other’s comments.
So, my comments? Fuck off, I’m also just expressing my political positions!
Okay, then by that logic, why is Biden helping Trump get elected by playing into this strategy?
Like I said, Biden has betrayed me over and over, but like a beaten dog I will crawl back to him if he just does this one thing. That’s all I’m asking for. It would be so easy for Biden to get my vote. It’s entirely in his hands. Yet he won’t do it. Why? Why is he determined to help Trump win?
The outcome will not change regardless of who is President because Congress is beholden to the defense industry and will always support selling weapons.
So no one is helping anyone win because the outcome is the same. If this is your true opinion, get your head out of your ass and see the big picture. Otherwise, fuck you for trying to spread facism.
The outcome will not change regardless of who is President because Congress is beholden to the defense industry and will always support selling weapons.
Sounds like Democracy is already broken then. Remind me what I’m supposed to be defending here?
A broken democracy is better than a fascist regime.
A fascist regime today is better than one tomorrow. You people have no idea how to change trajectory here you just tell us to keep kicking the can as the country slides to the right. It’s pathetic.
… if that’s true, then elections don’t matter in the first place! What the fuck?
If the outcome will not change regardless of who is President, why are you crawling up my dick about refusing to vote for Biden?
Your single issue outcome is the same, not every outcome.
That’s more reasonable.
I still think you’re wrong, I think Biden can be forced to endorse a ceasefire because politicians actually do care about elections. Right now the Biden team believes that Democrats are loyal to the core and can be counted to vote blue no matter who, there’s zero incentive to endorse a ceasefire. Why bother? He can do anything he wants to you and you’ll still vote for him. They’ve basically said as much.
And do you realize what that does? That’s not a “single issue”. Biden broke the railroad strike. Biden approved the Willow oil and gas pipeline project. Biden has fought to keep Trump’s COVID border policies, despite basically giving up entirely on controlling the spread of the virus otherwise. Biden allowed Manchin to stonewall almost everything when there was a huge Democratic majority.
By voting blue no matter who, you have enabled Biden to completely ignore the demands of his own base. You’re enabling genocide.
The outcome will change. Trump wants hot war with Iran. He is supported and surrounds himself by actual Zionists.
Biden is an actual Zionist!
I guess we’ll see if we have a war with Iran by November or not. It doesn’t look good!
Yup. Ending genocide is not on the ballot. Keeping American democracy on life support is on the ballot. And if we lose it because of this childish bullshit, abstainers in 2023 are to blame. You’re as useless as the Dem voters we’re already desperately trying to activate off the couch. Worst part is you’re doing it on purpose. You’re voting for Trump. It doesn’t matter how you feel. This is a fact. We’re hanging on by a thread and you’re whining to your own comrades about your feelings and discomfort. Vote far left down ballot. Elect a democratic president. Otherwise fuck yourself, your words mean literally nothing when you’re hauled off to camp from your family or put on the wall. Thanks for your opinions.
Vote for this one person to save democracy or go fuck yourself.
Sounds like a really healthy democracy you’ve got there. 🙄
Anyway, the reason we’re in this position is because everyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries is a complete asshole who intentionally fucked over progressive and leftist efforts. Now they’re mad we won’t show up for him in the general? Get fucked.
Nobody is saying that we have a healthy democracy. In fact, just the opposite: they are pointing out that we do not and that is why we are on such thin ice.
And yet, when it came time to select the Democrat nominee millions of people were like “I know we’re on thin ice but I’m still going to vote for the procorporate trash candidate.”
People who voted for Biden in the primaries are fucking assholes.
That’s more of a DNC decision. It’s traditional for both parties to run their incumbent candidate because the incumbent usually wins.
Did you just admit the DNC primaries are rigged?
First time?
A) The incumbent party always runs the sitting president if they are eligible for another term. That’s not rigging, it’s literally how it works.
B) Yes, the DNC rigs the primaries. Did you already forget when the DNC forced Hillary on us in 2016? Hell, if you’re asking that question than you obviously already forgot 2016, so of course you don’t even remember 2020.
C) For someone with such strong opinions, you don’t seem to know much about the process. Seriously, is this your first time paying attention? Or is this your first time as an eligible voter?
After Bernie got fucked, was there ever any question?
We don’t have a choice right now. Wake up.
When will we have a choice? Tell me how many more times I’m morally obligated to vote for your piece of shit candidate?
It doesn’t fucking matter. You’re voting for your life and the lives of others. This isn’t a single issue election. Get that through your fucking head.
If that’s true then the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries are absolute pieces of shit. Fuck them for fucking over progressive and leftist efforts.
No. I will not put up with this for 48 more years.
People had a choice in the 2020 primaries and they chose procorporate trash Joe Biden. That’s on them for picking a shit candidate. Not me.
It’s totally on you. And you can trust me on this- YOU will be blamed if Trump wins.
I do not give a fuck. What are you not understanding here? What did you people not fucking get in 2016? Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to test us again by voting for Joe fucking Biden in the 2020 primaries. Fuck all of those people. They actively fought us and proved we’re not on the same side.
America has never been a democracy. 🙄
Also, I’m not voting for Trump! I’m even voting left down ballot, I’m just not voting for Biden specifically.
If Trump wins and Democrats control both chambers, what the hell can he even do? Bloviate? I guess maybe he’ll do some executive orders that the 6-3 Court will uphold, but if Democrats aren’t worthless cowards they’ll just refuse to enforce his orders and it won’t matter anyway.
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There’s no guarantee we won’t already be in WW3 before the election (Israel is trying its best) so it’s hard to game things out that far.
Also, Trump has praised Hezbollah’s military. The guy is a clown and just says whatever pops in his head.
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There are so many issues that I oppose Biden on, this isn’t single issue. After betraying the railroad workers, after betraying migrants and refugees, after betraying over-policed and hyper-incarcerated minorities, how can I just accept yet another thing to hate about Biden? When will it end? I will not lay down and let him have his way with me because Trump is worse.
This is just the red line. Here and no further. If you let Biden do anything he wants to you and beg for more, why would he ever stop?
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Translation:
Because of a single issue- I will vote for Trump who also supports genocide, but in addition- supports racism, bigotry, misogyny, and cowardice.
There’s lots of other issues. You just weren’t paying attention to what people have been saying.
Go ahead and list the issues you have with Biden that would be worse than the issues you’d have with Trump. Keep in mind, that the orange-utan has threatened to use the military once in power to keep people like you in line. Also worth mentioning, he plans on strengthening the abortion ban, more oppression of the LGBTQ+ and withdrawing from climate agreements.
So please. Enlighten us on how your single-issue is worse than dealing with a tyrant.
You can accept the truth of this, or you can pout and hold on to your vote, but I’ll warn you than the latter is a vote for Trump no matter how you try and justify it.
Do the right thing.
So please. Enlighten us on how your single-issue is worse than dealing with a tyrant.
We’ve raised a lot of issues with Biden. You just haven’t been paying attention.
Do the right thing.
Millions of people had the opportunity to do the right thing in the 2020 primaries and instead they voted for procorporate trash Joe Biden. Fuck those people.
I say again;
Go ahead and list the issues you have with Biden that would be worse than the issues you’d have with Trump. Keep in mind, that the orange-utan has threatened to use the military once in power to keep people like you in line. Also worth mentioning, he plans on strengthening the abortion ban, more oppression of the LGBTQ+ and withdrawing from climate agreements.
Know what? Nevermind. I don’t want to hear from you anymore.
I don’t want to hear from you anymore.
You never did.
Fuck off. You’re just going to be supporting someone who will be even worse about it and potentially even bring it home.
I hope your conscience feels real good when that happens.
My conscience is clean because I’m not voting for genocide. You are, and you’re mad at me for pointing that out.
By not voting, you are still, implicitly, voting for the candidate who you wouldn’t have voted for. Do you think he’s not supporting Israel?
Do you think he even has any moral standing?
That’s who you’re voting for by not voting.
And if you vote for Trump, that’s actually two votes for Trump! 🤡
And every dollar you don’t donate to Biden is a dollar donated to Trump! 🙃
So if a Republican chooses to not vote because they don’t like Biden or Trump, they’re actually helping Biden! 😱
So you’re fine if, when presented with two choices, you picked the one that made things worse? Ok.
This is such a bizarre argument to make in the context of supposedly saving Democracy. Being morally obligated to vote for one person I despise isn’t Democratic. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Me trying to convince you to vote for a particular candidate is democratic, you knob.
And me saying “no” is also.
You can construct whatever ethics puzzles you want to absolve yourself of guilt, but you are literally voting for genocide. I’m not.
This is our only leverage, and if enough of us made it clear to Biden that he will lose then he would change his policies. This is the only power we have and we have a moral obligation to use it. Instead of cowardly voting for genocide, force Biden to the left like y’all promised.
Trump is pro-Israel.
So, you’re now a Trump supporter. Be okay with that. Because you and people like you- are enabling his next presidency- and WILL take the blame when he wins.
The alternative is Trump. You’re either going to abstain or vote for Trump if Biden doesn’t pull support for Israel? You know that literally every other POTUS since 1948 has been pro-Israel right?
Ending genocide isn’t on the ballot this year, Trump is. Your choices are between probably more genocide if you don’t vote for Biden and possibly less genocide if you do vote for Biden. It’s really that simple.
Ending genocide isn’t on the ballot this year, Trump is.
Then fuck Joe Biden, fuck the Democrats, fuck this country and fuck this “Democracy”. You all can try to win the general on your own.
If you literally can’t tell the difference from 2016-2020 and 2020-2024, we can’t help you.
I don’t need your help. You need mine.
I hope you see you will be to blame for the consequences
Nope. I’m going to blame every shithead who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. Fuck those people. Fuck every single one of them.
Ending genocide isn’t on the ballot this year
Look at that comment. Really, really, look at it.
Yes, we live in America and don’t get to vote on those sorts of things generally. The choices available are shitty and limited, if you haven’t figured that out yet I’ve got some terrible news because that’s how it works here. You can vote for the lesser evil and hope to move things in a better direction, or you can empower Trump and pretty much guarantee the horrorshow will be intensified.
I won’t vote for evil at all. Not if it means this. I’ve voted that way, (lesser evil) in hopes that i could do like you said, but it didn’t pan out that way in the 25 voting years I’ve experienced. The (quite likely) fact you have closer to that many total years as i have voting years, and that I’ve been a political hobbyist for most of those means your attempt at dismissal is a sloppy one.
Your judgment is not good then, I’ve been a voter for a bit longer than you. I don’t think you really have a choice in “voting for evil”, not voting or throwing your vote away on a third party is just as much a vote for evil as directly voting for Trump because it still serves to empower Trump and the GOP.
Your judgment is not good then
I dunno, i am ending this farce :D
Ending genocide isn’t on the ballot this year,
It would be if you cowards had the guts to tell Biden that he will lose if he continues to support genocide.
Sorry but that’s not how it works and insulting me won’t change anything.
That is how it works! Politicians change their policies based on what their supporters demand of them.
What do you think politics is? Do you think we’re helpless to the whims of politicians between election cycles?
You just want to absolve yourself of guilt for actively supporting genocide.
Again, insulting me won’t change anything. I obviously don’t support genocide. I’m done with whatever you’re doing.
You are voting for genocide. You can’t escape it.
By voting against Biden, including not voting, you are voting for genocide as well. But equally importantly, also voting for fascism.
The few people on the Internet that read this or feel like you. Grow up. You’re not changing anything. You’re electing Trump. I’ve heard this bullshit for over 20 years and it’s been a slippery fucking slope.
The few people on the Internet that read this or feel like you.
Sounds like you don’t need our votes then. Go win the 2024 general election all on your own.
They really do come across as naive children, the people who espouse this kind of belief. Demonstrating a lack of awareness of how complicated global politics are while also demonstrating a lack of awareness of how, in some ways, simple American politics are. They remind me of myself as a high schooler, all full of righteous indignation and hope for change without understanding how things work.
There will only be two choices for president, no matter how much we may want it to be otherwise or pretend that it could be otherwise. That will remain the case until we can get rid of first past the post and no amount of protesting is going to change that. If you truly want a third party candidate, your focus should be on getting rid of first pass the post. Until then, we only have two options.
Yes, that does mean our democracy is broken. No, that doesn’t mean it’s unsalvageable. And as I said above, a broken democracy is better than a fascist regime.
Biden is electing Trump by alienating his base. 80% of Democrats want a ceasefire! What the fuck?!
Your cynicism is noted, but change is possible if you aren’t too much of a coward to try.
No matter how much people vote against Biden, that won’t end the genocide. Regardless of the fact that Trump would carry it out probably more enthusiastically, neither of them have the power to stop Netanyahu. And Netanyahu doesn’t give a shit what Americans citizens think. He has the military might to subjugate the Palestinians with or without the US and he has made it clear that that’s what he intends to do.
Yeah, President’s don’t care about that shit. They’re beholden to their corporate donors, who are going to be pro-Israel. Geopolitics and oil resources are a removed, aren’t they?
You’re going to give up checks notes everything because he’s continuing the same policy the US has held like forever?
Maybe you need to look up how the rail strike ended… its clear you’re exceptionally misinformed.
Joe has been a phenomenal President so far
There’s no excuse for blocking a strike. Fuck Joe Biden and fuck the 44 Democrat senators and 36 Republican senators who helped him.
It wasn’t a retail worker strike, it was a rail worker strike. It’s critical to national security that the rail lines be running. I hate strike-breaking legislation as it’s a blatant removal of constitutional rights, but there is a fine line to walk as President in the face of a transport crisis.
If you believe blocking the strike was the right call then you and I are not on the same side. Elect your procorporate trash candidate on your own.
Ah yes, The fact the workers got what they wanted isn’t good enough is it?
Fucking hate phony people like this. Pretending you care about workers but don’t actually.
Ah yes, The fact the workers got what they wanted isn’t good enough is it?
They didn’t get what they wanted. They wanted 15 days. Nobody has 15 days. I know more about this issue than you.
I really despise people like this that fake care about workers
That’s you bud.
It’s bullshit workers went from 0 sick days to 7. Fuck joe Biden, piece of shit. Amirite??
