• queermunist she/her
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    72
    ·
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s a genocide collaborator! Would Trump be worse? Maybe - it’s unclear, because at least Democrats would oppose Trump. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history, Trump inspires Democrats to actually ask for more, Trump will further isolate America (and Israel) geopolitically, it’s hard to predict.

    I’m not voting for him, I’m actually voting Democrat down ticket, but if he wins it’s not the end of the world. It’s an opportunity.

    In the meantime? Withholding my vote is literally the only way I can exert pressure on Biden. I have a moral obligation to oppose genocide. I won’t vote for it. If he’s smart he’ll reverse course on Israel to save his campaign and this will all be moot. Why is Biden helping Trump win?

    • SheeEttin@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      34
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      11 months ago

      You don’t need to exert pressure on Biden. You need to help push the entire system back to the left. When Democrats in general are in government, it allows more room for further left candidates. Just like how electing Republicans made room for the Tea Party and the MAGA crazies. If the window had been more toward the left, they’d have been outside the Republican party.

      • queermunist she/her
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        28
        ·
        11 months ago

        I’m voting Democrat down ticket. I’m just not voting for genocide Joe.

        That’s the only way I can exert any pressure on him, and I don’t have to wait a year for that pressure to manifest. If enough Democrats had the courage to stand up to Biden he’d be forced to change his policies. Instead, you are all choosing to be complicit in genocide.

        • SheeEttin@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          11 months ago

          Not voting is a valid choice, one that says you’re okay with either candidate winning. And that is being complicit with genocide. If you’re not okay with that, vote.

          If you don’t want to wait a year, you can call, write, protest, and donate to groups to do those things on your behalf. But to throw away your vote is incredibly short-sighted.

          • queermunist she/her
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            11 months ago

            I’m voting for Democrats down ticket, hardly throwing it away. I’m just not voting for any pro-genocide candidates.

            And if Biden is smart, he’ll see how much support he’s losing and change his policy towards Israel.

            • SheeEttin@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              11 months ago

              Biden is an empty suit. If the party tells him to change, he’ll change.

              Alternatively, Trump wins and everything gets even shittier, and we lose even the possibility for things to get better.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                11 months ago

                I like how you found yourself being down voted the moment you acknowledged what a piss poor excuse for “Democracy” this is.

                • SheeEttin@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  Yup. But in the choice of who to vote for president, there’s the establishment candidate, or the “dictator for a day” candidate. Or there’s not voting, which is saying “yes, either of those are okay”. One of those things has the chance of making progress, and it should be obvious.

              • queermunist she/her
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                And the Party would tell him to change if the Party knew they’d lose the presidency.

                Do you think the Party would rather Trump win than stop supporting Israel? I doubt that.

                • SheeEttin@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  They know they’re not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome. Again, you’ll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.

                  • Drusas@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    They may actually lose on this issue. Democrats rely pretty heavily on younger voters and a lot of the really young voters, Zoomers, are making this a do or die issue, even though both of our only two parties with any chance of winning will support the genocide regardless.

                  • queermunist she/her
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    11 months ago

                    They know they’re not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome.

                    Okay, so my vote is irrelevant, got it. I’ve asked elsewhere and I’ll ask it here: why are you crawling up my dick about it? If my presidential vote doesn’t matter because “they’re not going to lose on this issue” then I can comfortably just leave that spot blank.

                    Again, you’ll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.

                    Which I’m doing.

                • SUPERcrazy3530@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  I don’t understand why people think the democrats losing to someone farther right would make them move left. Doesn’t it make more sense they’d move to the right since that’s what more voters wanted?

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    11 months ago

                    So you admit Democrats are just fascist light? Sounds like the fight is over then. We lost.

      • queermunist she/her
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        What centrist? All I see are two fascists, because genocide sure as fuck isn’t centrist.

        • Drusas@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          You don’t have to be fascist to be genocidal. The two just tend to overlap.

      • Drusas@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        I really do wonder how old the person you’re commenting to is. It’s very easy to be idealistic when you’re young and lack experience. Eventually you learn that you’re basically the same as the Freedom Caucus of the left if you’re acting that way, refusing to compromise and make any positive changes whatsoever.

      • queermunist she/her
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        Israel is the 51st state. This idea that Israel is a strong independent state that doesn’t need the empire is a joke, they’re wholly dependent on the US. When Reagan told Israel to back off of attacking the PLO in Lebanon, they did. Israel’s power comes from its untouchable status.