No, I’m not just talking about income/wealth improvement. I’m talking about access to housing, education, healthcare, jobs, social mobility, and so on. All these things are actual tangible freedoms people in China enjoy. What covid made clear is that China saved millions of lives while western oligarchs decided to sacrifice people to keep making profits.
That’s not freedoms per-se. in my opinion that’s access to wealth. If you’re locked up and brutalized for your belief, what freedom is that. If you can’t travel because your ‘social credit’ score is too low, what freedom is that? But i’ll leave it at that. (The EU is moving towards such regime in rapid pace as well.)
Vast majority of people living in China are happy
i agree.
brutality of US regime
i agree. Similarly, all the US lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction which got IRAQ butchered, like so many other countries under the false flag ‘installing democracy’. There are enough veterans out there warning about what is actually happening.
Regarding falun-gong. i read the 2 books and spoken to the believers and read the mainstream articles claiming it’s a dangerous cult. My impression is that negative propaganda is rampant. The books educate e.g. to always speak truth and if you’re being hurt to Not let it breed hate in you, etc. (my own words). There was actually a period of 10 years the CCP and companies suggested the book for spiritual education, but at one point the following became to big and CCP was scared for it to turn political, so they started the crackdown. The Chinese lady coworker who i spoke (who was at first shocked that i knew of it) told me she remembers that after the burning man on tiananmen-square who was portraied as a follower and used for disgrace propaganda, her mother ditched the books they once had received from her work.
That’s not freedoms per-se. in my opinion that’s access to wealth. If you’re locked up and brutalized for your belief, what freedom is that. If you can’t travel because your ‘social credit’ score is too low, what freedom is that? But i’ll leave it at that. (The EU is moving towards such regime in rapid pace as well.)
No, that’s not access to wealth. That’s freedom of self determination. Having education and opportunities in life allows people to express themselves in the way they want, and to do things they’re interested in doing. That’s actual tangible freedom.
Meanwhile, some beliefs, such as fascism, are harmful to society and rightly should be suppressed. I recommend reading about the paradox of tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
And I’ve followed covid scientific research pretty close. I actually worked at an IT department in a hospital at the height of the pandemic. I know exactly how bad things got. What China did was the sane approach to handling the pandemic, and it saved countless lives.
… That’s freedom of self determination … That’s actual tangible freedom.
Yes, same is used to portrayed how glorious the west is.
But still, here and there, you get persecuted for reasons i explained. Like in Netherlands, people trying to expose ‘pedophelia within government’ get thrown in jail for months without having a trial, and when trialed get years. Here people also think we’re free, also think that court does justice.(well they do, until you target particular issues)
I’m aware of that paradox. btw i’ve read the chapter 6 you proposed. i’m aware of (western/globalists) deceit tactics. i don’t think i have praised capitalism here…
Regarding covid, again i’m not saying it wasn’t bad. i’m saying whatever treatments were out there received enourmous organized slander. in hindsight studies find out those providing information outside msm were on to something… e.g.; 1)pneumonia treatment shouldn’t have changed. 2)hcq works preventively. 3)ivermectin works preventively and for treatment. (ps whoever comes with the horsepaste derailment wasn’t able to circumvent msm). 4)masks are vastly overrated. For 2),4) i gave some links to recent publications.
But back to why i commented in the first place; i firmly believe when people’s dignity is traumatized, most of them don’t know how to escape the vicious circle. The channel i provided is exposing the driving force behind western politics decisions.
Yes, same is used to portrayed how glorious the west is.
The difference is that in the west it’s just platitudes while it’s actually happening in China. Vast majority of people living in China are happy and support their government. There is no human society where the totality of the population is happy, that’s just not how humans work.
I’m aware of that paradox. btw i’ve read the chapter 6 you proposed. i’m aware of (western/globalists) deceit tactics. i don’t think i have praised capitalism here…
What you’re doing is creating a false equivalence. Socialist systems afford people far more tangible freedoms and quality of life improvements than capitalist ones. No human society is perfect, but the kinds of societies seen in USSR, China, Cuba, and Vietnam are a tangible improvement on the real world alternatives that are available.
Meanwhile, regarding covid, the only sane thing to do with a novel virus that’s not well understood is to control its spread. Also, n95 masks work perfectly fine, the problem is that the west doesn’t have the industrial capacity to produce them at the scale needed. However, it goes far beyond masks. China developed advanced systems of monitoring disease spread after SARS pandemic. They have rapid response teams that can do mass testing door to door. They’re able to contact trace and do targeted lockdowns. None of this is possible in the west.
it’s just platitudes while it’s actually happening in China
The west isn’t perfect and is full of propaganda & lies. But China does similar. Sure, if you stay within the confines of what’s Ok by CCP, you won’t notice the brutalities. But… i never started the first reply to go back and forth about social/capital-ism. I referred another root-problem surfacing to which i didn’t get any feedback.
What you’re doing is creating a false equivalence. Socialist systems …
“No human society is perfect” i agree. i guess you’re not referring to Cuba as it is now.
Meanwhile, regarding covid, the only sane thing to do with a novel virus that’s not well understood is to control its spread…
Oh common… the first half year i would have expected that. But 1,5 years later they were still scratching their heads about control & treatment?! i don’t buy it. Did you check the papers i provided?
I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this, but vast majority of people in China are happy and support CPC. Yes, there are people who aren’t happy, just like there are people who aren’t happy in every single human society that has ever existed. However, these people are a tiny minority. China is a well functioning society that works in the interest of the majority. That’s the reality.
Yes, I’m referring to Cuba as it is now. It’s another successful socialist society that’s thriving despite the despotic US empire having tried to undermine Cuba since the revolution.
And I’m simply not going to keep debating covid with you. The papers you provided don’t prove what you seem to think they prove, nor are they in any way authoritative. You’ve just found a narrative that you like, but the reality is that we’re still discovering what long term effects of covid are. Exposing everyone to the virus before anything was known about it was sheer idiocy, and it’s surreal that people still don’t understand that.
You’re acting as if you’re the only one not getting a point across :)
Regarding Cuba. People there are afraid to talk to tourists. Letting tourists stay overnight at someone’s house can get you in big trouble. anywhere there’s a gathering of tourists there are spies to ensure nobody ‘talks’. People dissapear without notice. That’s about 6 years ago. But Cuba people are very hospitable and pleasant people. Just too bad for the government. You mentioning Cuba as a thriving socialist example really makes me wonder where you got your information.
“You’ve just found…” Such a nonsense. i would have much more to relate if you were actually interested. Very sad the world is taken hostige by blocking of any doctor having early proof, it literally took lives! I really hope you saw that Faucci with his double masks was a sanity test.
After much typing i do have an idea where you stand. Only thing, i don’t think you actually read my first/initial reply, because i only got responses which had nothing to do with what i initially posted. But, never mind.
I get my information from my friends who are Cuban. I’m sure you know better though. Anyways, I don’t think this discussion is really productive at this point. We’re clearly talking past each other. Have a good day there.
i got my information from my wife who went on a group off-road road trip there.
But indeed we have quite different sources, and thus viewpoints, which i.m.o. don’t make either invalid.
You too, have a good day.
That’s not freedoms per-se. in my opinion that’s access to wealth. If you’re locked up and brutalized for your belief, what freedom is that. If you can’t travel because your ‘social credit’ score is too low, what freedom is that? But i’ll leave it at that. (The EU is moving towards such regime in rapid pace as well.)
i agree.
i agree. Similarly, all the US lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction which got IRAQ butchered, like so many other countries under the false flag ‘installing democracy’. There are enough veterans out there warning about what is actually happening.
Regarding falun-gong. i read the 2 books and spoken to the believers and read the mainstream articles claiming it’s a dangerous cult. My impression is that negative propaganda is rampant. The books educate e.g. to always speak truth and if you’re being hurt to Not let it breed hate in you, etc. (my own words). There was actually a period of 10 years the CCP and companies suggested the book for spiritual education, but at one point the following became to big and CCP was scared for it to turn political, so they started the crackdown. The Chinese lady coworker who i spoke (who was at first shocked that i knew of it) told me she remembers that after the burning man on tiananmen-square who was portraied as a follower and used for disgrace propaganda, her mother ditched the books they once had received from her work.
i get the impression you followed covid news via popular media outlets. Yes people died. But there’s more to it. Science (although late) uncovers the western lies which were propagated throught the media. (e.g. masks) (masks2), (more here). Also, a study finally released proving hydroxyxchlorequine to be beneficial(what so many said all along, even though fact-check squad was out to suppress them), while media and poly-tics did everything to block people’s access to it. (The hcq studies done previously were intentionally setup flawed and didn’t correct the setup while scientists did write them. By the way… the initial HCQ scare was based on a complete fraud by Surgisphere, and published by the Lancet, although later retracted). But the scare worked and got all access to HCQ banned. Similarly they did with ivermectin.
No, that’s not access to wealth. That’s freedom of self determination. Having education and opportunities in life allows people to express themselves in the way they want, and to do things they’re interested in doing. That’s actual tangible freedom.
Meanwhile, some beliefs, such as fascism, are harmful to society and rightly should be suppressed. I recommend reading about the paradox of tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
And I’ve followed covid scientific research pretty close. I actually worked at an IT department in a hospital at the height of the pandemic. I know exactly how bad things got. What China did was the sane approach to handling the pandemic, and it saved countless lives.
Yes, same is used to portrayed how glorious the west is. But still, here and there, you get persecuted for reasons i explained. Like in Netherlands, people trying to expose ‘pedophelia within government’ get thrown in jail for months without having a trial, and when trialed get years. Here people also think we’re free, also think that court does justice.(well they do, until you target particular issues)
I’m aware of that paradox. btw i’ve read the chapter 6 you proposed. i’m aware of (western/globalists) deceit tactics. i don’t think i have praised capitalism here…
Regarding covid, again i’m not saying it wasn’t bad. i’m saying whatever treatments were out there received enourmous organized slander. in hindsight studies find out those providing information outside msm were on to something… e.g.; 1)pneumonia treatment shouldn’t have changed. 2)hcq works preventively. 3)ivermectin works preventively and for treatment. (ps whoever comes with the horsepaste derailment wasn’t able to circumvent msm). 4)masks are vastly overrated. For 2),4) i gave some links to recent publications.
But back to why i commented in the first place; i firmly believe when people’s dignity is traumatized, most of them don’t know how to escape the vicious circle. The channel i provided is exposing the driving force behind western politics decisions.
The difference is that in the west it’s just platitudes while it’s actually happening in China. Vast majority of people living in China are happy and support their government. There is no human society where the totality of the population is happy, that’s just not how humans work.
What you’re doing is creating a false equivalence. Socialist systems afford people far more tangible freedoms and quality of life improvements than capitalist ones. No human society is perfect, but the kinds of societies seen in USSR, China, Cuba, and Vietnam are a tangible improvement on the real world alternatives that are available.
Meanwhile, regarding covid, the only sane thing to do with a novel virus that’s not well understood is to control its spread. Also, n95 masks work perfectly fine, the problem is that the west doesn’t have the industrial capacity to produce them at the scale needed. However, it goes far beyond masks. China developed advanced systems of monitoring disease spread after SARS pandemic. They have rapid response teams that can do mass testing door to door. They’re able to contact trace and do targeted lockdowns. None of this is possible in the west.
The west isn’t perfect and is full of propaganda & lies. But China does similar. Sure, if you stay within the confines of what’s Ok by CCP, you won’t notice the brutalities. But… i never started the first reply to go back and forth about social/capital-ism. I referred another root-problem surfacing to which i didn’t get any feedback.
“No human society is perfect” i agree. i guess you’re not referring to Cuba as it is now.
Oh common… the first half year i would have expected that. But 1,5 years later they were still scratching their heads about control & treatment?! i don’t buy it. Did you check the papers i provided?
I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this, but vast majority of people in China are happy and support CPC. Yes, there are people who aren’t happy, just like there are people who aren’t happy in every single human society that has ever existed. However, these people are a tiny minority. China is a well functioning society that works in the interest of the majority. That’s the reality.
Yes, I’m referring to Cuba as it is now. It’s another successful socialist society that’s thriving despite the despotic US empire having tried to undermine Cuba since the revolution.
And I’m simply not going to keep debating covid with you. The papers you provided don’t prove what you seem to think they prove, nor are they in any way authoritative. You’ve just found a narrative that you like, but the reality is that we’re still discovering what long term effects of covid are. Exposing everyone to the virus before anything was known about it was sheer idiocy, and it’s surreal that people still don’t understand that.
You’re acting as if you’re the only one not getting a point across :)
Regarding Cuba. People there are afraid to talk to tourists. Letting tourists stay overnight at someone’s house can get you in big trouble. anywhere there’s a gathering of tourists there are spies to ensure nobody ‘talks’. People dissapear without notice. That’s about 6 years ago. But Cuba people are very hospitable and pleasant people. Just too bad for the government. You mentioning Cuba as a thriving socialist example really makes me wonder where you got your information.
“You’ve just found…” Such a nonsense. i would have much more to relate if you were actually interested. Very sad the world is taken hostige by blocking of any doctor having early proof, it literally took lives! I really hope you saw that Faucci with his double masks was a sanity test.
After much typing i do have an idea where you stand. Only thing, i don’t think you actually read my first/initial reply, because i only got responses which had nothing to do with what i initially posted. But, never mind.
I get my information from my friends who are Cuban. I’m sure you know better though. Anyways, I don’t think this discussion is really productive at this point. We’re clearly talking past each other. Have a good day there.
i got my information from my wife who went on a group off-road road trip there. But indeed we have quite different sources, and thus viewpoints, which i.m.o. don’t make either invalid. You too, have a good day.
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