They will detain you. I know the US procedure because i was instructed as i worked there as a representative for an overseas company in Europe.
If you’re a national of the US they will detain you and hold you in detention to ask you questions. During this time your phone will either be cloned or confiscated to be decrypted at a later date. You will be released after a few hours. They will likely not bruteforce it, but rather attempt to use security flaws present in your device/firmware. They will do the same to your laptop.
If you’re not a national of the US, you will be denied entry and flown back to where you came from. This is common practice in a lot of western countries.
What you should do is not carry sensitive information across borders, by using a cloud service to sync at your destination or use hidden encrypted containers in your device. Unless you’re involved in terrorism, white collar crime, CSAM or drugs, they will never have people smart enough to find out hidden containers on you.
Even if my phone is empty, I’m not going to give them a password out of principle. And I’m not saying anything in detention. No questions will be answered.
Again if I really need to get into the country, then I’ll try again at a different port of entry. Usually land crossings are easier.
You’re free to do that, but seems like a good way to be put on a list to be harassed more in the future. You make a cop/border agent feel stupid and he/she will make sure to make your life harder.
The records will show you’re trying different ports of entry and if a border guard doesn’t like you, you will be selected for investigation and getting off that list may take years. Worse, you can be banned from entry for no reason and good luck appealing that.
Personally i like to treat the customs agents real nice. I call them sir or ma’am, i follow their instructions and i show them a squeaky clean phone and they let me off with a smile at the first port of entry. Being combative with an agent will not change the laws. Moreover if you have obligations to a company, they will not look kindly to this sort of attrition causing delays and will pass you over next time they need someone. This of course means you won’t get paid as much (or, depending on circumstances, at all).
I agree with the other poster, picking battles is the way to go.
I guess your company trains to different standards than my company then. A multi national globe operating company can never afford to fire employees for refusing to cooperate with authorities during border checks. At most it can train them to secure data during border crossing.
If the company i work for did what you suggest, they would fire all their employees in the space of a week or have them all detained or refused entry to countries. They’d lose billions in business. Only a domestic or low volume company can afford having their employees routinely detained at borders in such a manner.
It just doesn’t make any sense what you’re saying, but you do you bud. All the best.
Well most recently this year i crossed US borders at the Texas point of entry. I was told expressly to always provide them with my devices, as if i said no thank you i would be denied entry to the US and it would go on the record for future visa applications, which could be denied on grounds of that, thus affecting future assignments. When you get a work visa, you have a time limit to enter the US and if you miss it, you need another. I was told i was completely responsible for any data that third parties could obtain and i would be fired and legally prosecuted if sensitive data was seen by people who did not have security clearance and NDA clearance for the data i was carrying, which border security does not have, even though some US government personnel do have those clearances.
Fortunately my company provided cloud space for any personal or company data i would be carrying and i wasn’t asked for anything because i came from Europe and i guess they weren’t too suspicious about me, so in the end it wasn’t an issue. Nevertheless, i had to take mandatory corporate training to prepare for any immigration interviews and had to sign specific liability agreements for the data i carry since it is highly sensitive.
I don’t just work as a liason in the US, but this was the most recent. For the industry i work in, this is pretty standard.
You can say no, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be consequences, in my case I’d lose my job or lose assignments, which would probably mean I’d be put only on European assignments or demoted to a domestic only position, which would be paid substantially less. So in essence, i can’t really say no nor slack on opsec. Being able to feed my family is more important than protesting on grounds of principle for me. Also i could have issues getting to the US in the future, for any reason that may be, since getting a work visa requires grueling consulate interviews and they check literally everything. It’s one of the most annoying places to get work visas to, even coming from Europe. It took me one year of scheduling and attending interviews to be cleared for it. I was even asked to provide all my personal social media account handles.
They’re trying to pressure you. Cops do this. You have rights though.
I always say no thank you, even if they don’t ask my permission. At worst they spend 5 minutes typing on their computer and then they let me through.
It does catch them off guard, but they know your rights. Exercise them with a smile and a thank you. You’re making assumptions that cause harm to you and your peers.
if you’ve flown for 12 hours with all that entails to go to the US (for a reason) and are presented with the choice of unlocking your phone or be denied entry, you will cooperate. Especially if you moved all your sensitive info beforehand.
They will detain you. I know the US procedure because i was instructed as i worked there as a representative for an overseas company in Europe.
If you’re a national of the US they will detain you and hold you in detention to ask you questions. During this time your phone will either be cloned or confiscated to be decrypted at a later date. You will be released after a few hours. They will likely not bruteforce it, but rather attempt to use security flaws present in your device/firmware. They will do the same to your laptop.
If you’re not a national of the US, you will be denied entry and flown back to where you came from. This is common practice in a lot of western countries.
What you should do is not carry sensitive information across borders, by using a cloud service to sync at your destination or use hidden encrypted containers in your device. Unless you’re involved in terrorism, white collar crime, CSAM or drugs, they will never have people smart enough to find out hidden containers on you.
Even if my phone is empty, I’m not going to give them a password out of principle. And I’m not saying anything in detention. No questions will be answered.
Again if I really need to get into the country, then I’ll try again at a different port of entry. Usually land crossings are easier.
You’re free to do that, but seems like a good way to be put on a list to be harassed more in the future. You make a cop/border agent feel stupid and he/she will make sure to make your life harder.
The records will show you’re trying different ports of entry and if a border guard doesn’t like you, you will be selected for investigation and getting off that list may take years. Worse, you can be banned from entry for no reason and good luck appealing that.
Personally i like to treat the customs agents real nice. I call them sir or ma’am, i follow their instructions and i show them a squeaky clean phone and they let me off with a smile at the first port of entry. Being combative with an agent will not change the laws. Moreover if you have obligations to a company, they will not look kindly to this sort of attrition causing delays and will pass you over next time they need someone. This of course means you won’t get paid as much (or, depending on circumstances, at all).
I agree with the other poster, picking battles is the way to go.
Dude, if you willingly gave your company phone to a border agent, we’d fucking fire you. We train employees not to do that.
I always say “no thank you” when they ask me to do something I don’t want to.
And, yes, protest does work to give us rights. History shows this. Ffs resd the article
I guess your company trains to different standards than my company then. A multi national globe operating company can never afford to fire employees for refusing to cooperate with authorities during border checks. At most it can train them to secure data during border crossing.
If the company i work for did what you suggest, they would fire all their employees in the space of a week or have them all detained or refused entry to countries. They’d lose billions in business. Only a domestic or low volume company can afford having their employees routinely detained at borders in such a manner.
It just doesn’t make any sense what you’re saying, but you do you bud. All the best.
which borders are they crossing where that’s mandatory? Very few countries require this. In most you can just say “no thank you”
Well most recently this year i crossed US borders at the Texas point of entry. I was told expressly to always provide them with my devices, as if i said no thank you i would be denied entry to the US and it would go on the record for future visa applications, which could be denied on grounds of that, thus affecting future assignments. When you get a work visa, you have a time limit to enter the US and if you miss it, you need another. I was told i was completely responsible for any data that third parties could obtain and i would be fired and legally prosecuted if sensitive data was seen by people who did not have security clearance and NDA clearance for the data i was carrying, which border security does not have, even though some US government personnel do have those clearances.
Fortunately my company provided cloud space for any personal or company data i would be carrying and i wasn’t asked for anything because i came from Europe and i guess they weren’t too suspicious about me, so in the end it wasn’t an issue. Nevertheless, i had to take mandatory corporate training to prepare for any immigration interviews and had to sign specific liability agreements for the data i carry since it is highly sensitive.
I don’t just work as a liason in the US, but this was the most recent. For the industry i work in, this is pretty standard.
You can say no, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be consequences, in my case I’d lose my job or lose assignments, which would probably mean I’d be put only on European assignments or demoted to a domestic only position, which would be paid substantially less. So in essence, i can’t really say no nor slack on opsec. Being able to feed my family is more important than protesting on grounds of principle for me. Also i could have issues getting to the US in the future, for any reason that may be, since getting a work visa requires grueling consulate interviews and they check literally everything. It’s one of the most annoying places to get work visas to, even coming from Europe. It took me one year of scheduling and attending interviews to be cleared for it. I was even asked to provide all my personal social media account handles.
They’re trying to pressure you. Cops do this. You have rights though.
I always say no thank you, even if they don’t ask my permission. At worst they spend 5 minutes typing on their computer and then they let me through.
It does catch them off guard, but they know your rights. Exercise them with a smile and a thank you. You’re making assumptions that cause harm to you and your peers.
if you’ve flown for 12 hours with all that entails to go to the US (for a reason) and are presented with the choice of unlocking your phone or be denied entry, you will cooperate. Especially if you moved all your sensitive info beforehand.
Nope. Definitely won’t violate my standards, even if they throw me in prison.
We are proud ofyour, but your sacrifice will be in vain and not make it to the news. Pick your battles.
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