Boomers say that shit because back when they were young, you could actually advance by working hard in a shitty job. Of course, they pulled the ladder up once they got to the cushy positions.
Back then it was called “a fair days work”.
It hasn’t been “fair” for a long time.
What’s that I hear, you don’t want to be on call after hours for no extra pay?
Sounds like you’re not much a team player. And only team players get to work here.
We’re a faaaaaamily here.
“It’ll show us that you are super committed in the work you do”
“We WoRk HaRd AnD pLaY hArD”
Where does the play ever come in and wtf does this even mean.
Being on call with a random schedule AND winning the company softball game? No can do, chief.
We should change the saying to “Work hard, Pay hard”
If I get a PhD (which I have to pay for) and work for twenty years in my job, my salary caps out at ~60k.
What field? That’s wild to me, and horribly unjust.
Teaching.
I’m sorry to hear that, education is absolutely criminally undervalued by society.
And boy oh boy, does it show. :(
If you’re that qualified you should look at immigration as an option. Where I live, the base salary is $78k for a bachelor degree qualified teacher and goes up to $140k if you take on head of department roles. If you don’t it caps out at a few grand less. We’re currently in a teacher shortage too.
Be warned though, this is in Australia so the cost of living does suck a bit. You still are probably not affording buying a house on this.
Well that’s a valid point. But as a boomer myself, for some reason I had this ingrained into me, to work hard just for the sake of working hard. So I went to college and had a straight A average, then graduated in the top 10% of my class and all that.
However it never meant that I had a great career. I worked in healthcare and I never made more than just a living wage and I spend a lot of time mentoring others coming into the field. So I don’t think I ever wanted to yank the ladder out from anybody. That just isn’t me.
Yup. The guy who came to america to mow lawns is definitely killing it because he had it easy. Or maybe the guy who came to work in a field… or in a car auto manufacturer… wait that went out of business… hmmmm oh yes the guy who is now a manager at your local burger king, yeah he had it easy. Fuck him. The median wage across the US is 54k though so maybe its only some select people.
54k is barely a living wage these days. You CAN live on it, but you can’t expect to start a family or buy a house or achieve anything resembling The American Dream.
Depends on where you live. Some parts of America are dirt cheap, including housing. Although those areas typically have shit wages too.
Shit wages, shit school systems, shitheel neighbors. Like I said, far from the “American Dream”.
Yep you definitely answered it right there.
Sure it’s cheap, but there’s no local opportunities and might be a desert for quality food. Much of rural United States is still not covered by (reliable / affordable) broadband, either.
Dirt cheap places have dirt cheap wages.
Im replying to your blanket comment that boomers in general have it easier which they absolutely dont. You like to cherry pick the happy ending stories where boomers sit on their manegerial high chairs like crying babies and choose to ignore that MOST people are struggling right now, boomer or not. Dont discredit hard work.
The boomers had everything easier than we do today aside from the ability to gather information. This ability, by the way, is how we know they had it easy. They’re the true participation trophy generation, and honestly it’s hard for me to tell the difference between a boomer and a high end projector, since they both only do the same thing, it’s just the projector has inherent value.
You want to live the official lifestyle your grandparents had? Move to Mozambique and dont look at the internet for 30 years. They are just starting to move to first world status (50 years ago) can get that good old fashioned projector/participation trophy you dream of. I am sure you can easily work your way to the top.
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I’m sorry did I miss the headline where Mozambique’s previous generation came out on top after a globally devastating world war, and they had a bunch of fat happy peacetime babies, propelling their now-boomed population to an economic superpower status where there’s so many jobs and hard work is rewarded with fair pay for a balanced family life? Are they about to invent another Internet?
Are their families just trying out and starting up businesses? Can their kids save up for a brand new car by working at the local factory or restaurant?
Wowee it’s amazing the gems you can find on this planet if you look hard enough!
The only notable Mozambique that comes to mind is the one that would make sure these neo-gilded-age crapbags stay down after selling all of us out, generation after generation, including poor boomers who didn’t get so lucky.
Oh, Mozambique? The Mozambique that is “disappearing” journalists who try and investigate the dirty “counter-insurgency” operation happening in the north of the country because the Moz government is intent on allowing Total to loot it’s energy reserves at the expense of the local populace?
Yeah, Clyde… that sounds totally 1st world to me. Totally not a country still at the beck and call of the Global North’s exploitation at all.
Im replying to your blanket comment that boomers in general have it easier which they absolutely dont.
Maybe some boomers don’t now, but relatively speaking they absolutely DID have it easier when they were my age.
Dont discredit hard work.
I’m not discrediting hard work. I’m simply stating the fact that “hard work” 50 years ago was apparently worth more than “hard work” today.
The person you’re replying to used to be named PatFussy.
I wouldn’t engage with them if I were you. They cleaned up their act a little bit with the new handle, but they still just routinely say dumb shit.
Lol wow i say things not in your dickass b cluster club and so i should be avoided. Congratulations, you have officially had your first dialogue with someone outside of your bubble. I bet you would rather I name myself xXx420KillAllPolice69xXx am i right? Smash that bell icon for more racist bullshit takes.
I had a colleague who loved to opine on a bit of everything including “millennials”. He was talking about “soft resignations” and explained them succinctly as “it’s when you’re annoyed that you’re overlooked at work so you don’t put any extra effort in don’t work any extra hours and only do the minimum and then wonder why you don’t get promoted”.
It was hilarious but sad how he could just so utterly fail to grasp the point that to me was just staring him right in the face as he struggled to explain. He’s an okay guy really, and it’s just a shame that his penchant for everything to fit in to nice neat stories with conveniently stupid straw men to beat in each of them really gets in the way of him having any more than the shallowest understanding of the people and world around him.
Some people just don’t want to climb the ladder anymore. I’m not soft resigning or quiet quitting by doing exactly my job description and nothing more - I’m settling and content.
I wish this wasn’t such a foreign or bad concept to those in business.
My experience in the corporate world has been that working hard, overachieving, and putting in long hours only results in getting more work assigned and those extra hours to become expected. No rewards or recognition or anything beyond more work, and getting negative reviews scores when you stop putting in extra hours and just work 40 a week.
i’ve never understood the corporate ladder, my goal in life is to work as little as possible while having enough income to live as enjoyable a life as possible.
I wouldn’t put it that way. Seems overly pessimistic. I enjoy my work. That’s part of the reason I don’t want to climb the corporate ladder. It doesn’t take long before your day is less work than meetings.
But if you don’t set some boundaries, they’ll gladly consume your entire life and not even notice. If you have to tell them a reason you can’t be available at 6pm today, there’s already an issue.
You don’t climb the ladder by working hard these days.
Honestly, this is just contracting 101. If we squint really hard and imagine our W2’s as 1099’s, the problems practically leap off the page.
So that they can take their kids to the doctor.
Medicare For All would go far to stop that.
It is time to stop letting your boss hold your child’s healthcare hostage.
Amazing how everyone gets so mad at the government providing it instead of only having it because your boss felt gracious enough to not provide the worst possible options for insurance
Narrator: Nobody realized it WAS the worst insurance until they required it in an emergency
Nah they knew, just was their only option. At least aca forced them to actually cover things instead of it being insurance in name only.
Not that it’s better now but it was so much worse
Or the insurance company fucks up giving you the wrong plan and do a switcheroo last minute. Right before the short enrollment period, your boss is looking into why they are paying more for employee insurance than expected and find out more than half of the staff is on the wrong plan. Then the insurance company tries to recoup the cost from providers putting the employees on the hook for the difference even though it wasn’t their mistake to begin with.
The problem here is that the employer somehow likes this specific insurance company(coughkaiser) and they seem to like punishing people going out of their network.
America needs to face the mess that is employer provided insurance.
You could stick around and try to start a union at your job
Weird fantasy I have is joining a really crappy job and just causing trouble.
Like I have a full time job. But I wonder if I should apply to Walmart, work incredibly half-asssd, and then just actively push a union.
There are unions that have hired folks in the past to do exactly that. I believe it’s called “salting.” Either way, it’s doable.
As unethical as that sounds, it also sounds amazing.
Less unethical than the union busting. So I wouldn’t worry one bit.
Ok c’mon let’s have some fun.
How would you cause trouble and balance it in a way that doesn’t get you immediately fired (or arrested)?
I share the same idea hahaha. If only you weren’t forced to keep it up for entire 8+ hour shifts…
I wanted to do this, but they literally kept me so separated from coworkers, we barely knew each other. The only other person in my dept was my supervisor, and across the room you could feel him tremble at the mention of “management”, and could smell the boot polish on his breath.
Tell me THAT wasn’t on purpose.
There are some people complain, very loudly, when others fail to validate their life choices.
I’ll add that the pandemic did a lot to change baselines, priorities, long-range thinking, and more. Basically, a watershed moment for millions of people. The kind of thing that causes a lot of change, social, economic, and otherwise. The kind of thing that scares people who can’t cope when society seems to change shape overnight. The article is one of those things.
I think a lot of the people sticking around at one job are the ones with pensions.
You need portable pension plans that move with you job to job and accumulate nonetheless, as we have in the Netherlands
In the US, people working up through the late nineties got pensions specific to whatever company an employee works for. Now there just aren’t pensions for any workers.
But hey at least they came up with this brilliant retirement plan where you can gamble your salary on the stock market instead /s
I think it’s shit that it’s like this however not being tied down to a job you hate is nice.
I’m confused as to how that works. Different pensions can promise different benefits. How does that work when switching jobs?
I am not sure about the Netherlands but where I am you have superannuation which is completely independent from your job and you control who it’s with yourself. When you change jobs you just let your new employer know where to send your contributions to.
We don’t rely on super/pensions for benefits before retirement age and have universal health care too.
So the US has three retirement systems.
For virtually all US workers, there is social security. This is roughly equivalent to the national pension system of other countries. You and your employer both contribute a fixed percentage of your paycheck. Upon reaching retirement age, you then get a defined contribution.
Then there are employers based pension plans. The same basic principle applies. Put money in, get money out upon retirement. It is considered a bad deal for employers, because they have a ton of financial liability on their books. In terms of monetary compensation, it is good for employees. However it takes a ton of time to be eligible, which means they can’t increase their salary by job hopping and are vulnerable to layoffs. Most employer pensions are gone outside government pensions.
Finally, there are defined contribution accounts. You contribute a certain percentage of your paycheck into a tax advantaged brokerage account. You then invest these contributions, typically in a target date retirement fund. it is also common for an employer to match contributions.
We got two (three, if you count buying homes as a form of pensions scheme).
The state gives you 18,1 % of your yearly salary to your future pension. This will be the largest part of your pension payouts.
Then you have obligatory pension schemes your employers have to set up for you. If you work in the private sector, the percentages are minimum 2 % and max 7% of your salary. If you work in the public sector, you will get 5,6 % of your salary put away for pensions. You will also get around 4 % to what is called AFP. So technically working in the public sector gives you up to 9 % of your salary.
The third one is what you do on your own. Buying homes is a big part of our economy here. If you are lucky, you can sell your home for a huge profit when you retire and move somewhere else/scale down.
So I think ultimately the biggest difference here is the US defined contributions scheme that runs through the stock market and the minimum requirements.
I don’t know the answer. The US system is super flawed, but a lot of nations are having issues with their national pension systems due to demographic changes. Ultimately I’ll be more confident that I’ll be able to rely on my 401k brokerage than Social Security.
Likewise, the US housing system was built in a way that allowed lower income people to buy homes. However that system has now been abused to raise the price of housing to unsustainable levels. I still don’t think demphasis one home ownership and rent stabilization bandied around is really a good solution though.
Holy fuck that’s a thing?
Holy fuck you guys don’t have that?
Where I live, it is mandatory for employers to start a pension scheme for all employees. The scheme is controlled by the employer until you quit. Then it is up to you to find it a good home and make sound investing strategies. You can’t access the money until your are at least 62 years old.
If you find a new job, your new employer will assume responsibility over it and make sure payments are made into it on your behalf until you quit/retire.
Mandatory monthly payments your employer have to make are minimum 2 % and up to a maximum of 7% of your salary.
It is a part of your terms and conditions when you apply for a job. The employer can’t take the percentage out of your salary. They have to take it from the business itself.
- One step further : Unionize
- One step further : Kick your boss out
- One step further : Kick every boss out
As unfortunate as it is, some people really don’t have a choice. My dad, for example, gets paid something like 30 an hour, but his job absolutely sucks. He wants to quit, but he knows he can’t find a job that will pay the same, especially with how old he’s getting.
Unionize, don’t be alone, get support, and be supportive
This is where I am in life also. Trust me, it sucks.
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My wife and I were discussing how she has worked hard all her life and tried to be a model employee everywhere only to be accused of embezzlement when others stole from her till (and were eventually caught) and casually dismissed and insurance cut off after a lifetime of paying into it. I have dealt with the same sort of treatment when working for others. We’re both honest people and naively thought that work was rewarded. It is not.
Either work for yourself or dont work at all. Also, disability insurance and SS are a fucking farce so cover your own ass and quit giving the government your money.
Either work for yourself or dont work at all. Also, disability insurance and SS are a fucking farce so cover your own ass and quit giving the government your money.
How is any of this optional?
I think they assume that you follow their advice and are now “working for yourself”, which I assume to mean create your own business such as a consulting company, a store, etc. With that assumption, and this is obviously not legal advice, I believe, in the US, you don’t have to contribute to social security if your business has under a certain number of employees. I also think not all states require disability insurance under similar business size limits (this one I am less sure of).
the real solution is to unionize
Also, disability insurance and SS are a fucking farce so cover your own ass and quit giving the government your money.
Yikes. For anyone looking into it. https://ssabest.benefits.gov/
In 2023, an average of almost 67 million Americans per month will receive a Social Security benefit, totaling about $1.4 trillion in benefits paid during the year.
PDF Warning: https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/basicfact-alt.pdf
Yikes Fun fact: not enough to survive, and applying without being denied and being forced to hire law firms is the norm, not the outlier. By contrast that same government blew nearly 20 trillion on principle and interest for wars with no benefit to any American people. Meanwhile one party is actively working to eliminate all SS and disability insurances since it’s already crippled this far.
Yikes Fun fact: not enough to survive
It was never meant to be. It’s supplemental income. The government has always expected people to be able to ‘save’ somehow or also pay for injury insurance. Hence supplemental income. Unfortunately the vast majority of disabled people often never had great resources to begin with.
The maximum payout is also loosely scaled to Federal Poverty Levels which can be woefully low depending on the Cost of Living in most areas. It was also not meant to support an entire family, it was meant to support 1 person.
In 2023, the estimated average Social Security disability benefit for a disabled worker receiving Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is $1,489 per month
They say that with the same energy that a slasher villain has when he cusses you out for hiding from him
I’ll lick boots for a living if it allows me to afford my own home and support a family on a single income. I imagine I could get very into it.
“I see master is wearing their black versache dress shoes today, excellent choice sir! I will lick them clean all over. Oh, is that shoe polish? You shouldn’t have!” slurp slurp
My wages only cover literal boot licking.
I’ve seen those YouTube videos too
Whiney voice: “But I want my workers to worship me!!”
– some boss, probably.
It’s better to leave, when you can, if you need to.
Image Transcription: Twitter Post
Yugopnik, @yugopnik
Calling this generation soft or weak because they are actually quitting toxic jobs was always hilarious to me. How is staying and licking your boss’s boots every day for the rest of your life a show of courage exactly?
It’s not a show of courage to stay at a job you’ve committed to working, nor is it boot licking. It’s plain and simple economic necessity and whether you like it or not you’re going to end up working for someone else no matter what job you have, whether it’s in healthcare, education, science, or even as an independent artist.
It IS weak and soft to quit a job just because it places demands on your time and expectations that you’ll actually do the job during the required hours with the required professional attitude. You’re most likely never going to find a job where you have total control, can come in whenever you want, do whatever you want, don’t have to do anything to earn a paycheck… that’s a fantasy and not the reality of the world we live in.
The tweet explicitly talks about Toxic Jobs though. If you still don’t understand than you have never worked for a toxic employer, so consider yourself lucky.
That’s truly a different matter and I do realize that toxic jobs do exist. And yes I have worked my share. One of my jobs was at a company where they had 34 people (all friends) who hired each other to be managers, and then hired me and two others to do the actual work of answering phones, taking orders, sending mailers, shipping products, doing repair work, manning the warehouse, restocking, etc etc.
And all the managers did was order personal stuff off Amazon and have meetings about ways to motive us to work harder. So yes - I’ve been there. Most jobs are going to have elements of unfairness in them, I don’t disagree with that. That’s just a stark reality these days.
Nice false dichotomy. There’s a whole spectrum of “being fairly compensated for your labor in a safe and reasonably flexible workplace” in between “barely subsistence” and “Jeff Bezos”.
I’m just asking, not trying to be a dick. I realize there’s a whole spectrum of being fairly compensated for your labor, but fair compensation does not equal being paid the same as Jeff Bezos just because you’re coming in on time and doing what you agreed to do in your job acceptance offer. A workplace does not have to flex to accommodate every need of the worker, nor can it if it hopes to survive.
I’m just asking, …
I don’t see a question.
… they are actually quitting toxic jobs …
There’s a qualifier there. Toxic jobs are, in my understanding, those which underpay, overwork, eschew safety, fail to respect the humanity of employees, or demand that workers put their jobs ahead of anything else. Employers all too often make far greater demands on employees than were “agreed to in [the] job acceptance offer,” unless you’re in a union, where labor is able to collectively bargain for contracts.
By your definition, ALL jobs are toxic jobs. If you ever find a position that doesn’t expect those things of you, let me know.
While I disagree that not all jobs are toxic by that definition, even if they were, the implication that workers should just shut up and keep their heads down about it is the problem, and you are the hilariously wrong person being referred to in the post. Keep licking those boots, and being grateful for the taste.
I like the taste, it’s kind of like your mommy’s cunt, only much healthier. You can delude yourself however you wish, but it’s obvious that you are the one who is ignorant in this situation. Have a nice life, scumbag!
There it is.
weak
Meh my last job was pretty much exactly what you just described.
In terms of having to be on time and do what you’re expected to do, or in terms of coming in whenever you want and doing nothing and getting paid? And if it’s the latter, why would you ever leave such a job?
As for why i don’t work there anymore, they realize they had a bunch people like me on the salary
that they were paying way too much to do way too little, and the semiconductor markets downThe second one, I had two hours of work, and those hours of work. Literally part of my job is stay in there and play on your pho until the machine is done. All I did to the machine was press a button and move it about 10 feet it was hand held.
To me that sounds kind of ideal, just stay there and do nothing but press a button and get paid. I did have an office manager job where all I was required to do was show up - because all the other employees there were part-time and most were students who went to school during the day.
So while I was there, I did run the office (payroll, answer phones, keep the filing system, format the monthly newsletter) but most days there was nothing to do but play games on the computer. Occasionally my boss would come in and she’d take me to lunch, then tell me to go home early.
I loved that job! But then the Board of Directors decided to dissolve the company - so - all good things do eventually come to an end.
what’s wrong witth being soft
Go ahead and be that way and see how far you get in life. If this was a fantasy world made of unicorn farts and marshmallow fluff, being soft would make perfect sense. But it isn’t, and the real world is full of demands, unfairness, and expectations. You don’t have to meet any of them, but don’t complain about your life in a cardboard box under the overpass - because that’s on you.
how do you know
Go ahead and be that way and see how far you get in life.
Better things are possible. We create our world, there is no reason it has to be as uncaring as it is. And the only way to make a change for the better is to abandon your way of thinking.
The idea that your create your world with unfettered freedom and no restrictions is a false notion. This isn’t a world where you can do whatever you want however you want, and people will throw money at you for being that way. As nice as it would be to live a totally free life where you get paid just to be you - that isn’t the reality of human societies.
I’m not one to balk at the notion of rocking or shaking up the status quo - god knows I’ve done my fair share of that, just today I had a volatile (and very angry) letter printed in our paper condeming book banning and the idiots who condone it - not that that will change anyone’s mind.
But I’m saying you also have to be realistic and face the fact that no one is going to pay you to sit on your bum and play video games all day (in all likelihood). The world you want to live in is bounded by the stark facts of economic necessities and social pressures.
The idea that your create your world with unfettered freedom and no restrictions is a false notion.
Good thing I didn’t say that then.
But I’m saying you also have to be realistic and face the fact that no one is going to pay you to sit on your bum and play video games all day (in all likelihood).
Who said anything about that?
The world you want to live in is bounded by the stark facts of economic necessities and social pressures.
Except economics is not “facts”, it’s a way of organising that we have the power to change. Specifically referring to economics, the world is the way that it is because some people want it to be this way, it is not a fact of nature.
I really could not care less, you think whatever you want to. I’ve got better things to care about.
I really could not care less
Clearly, because you didn’t even care enough to read what I originally wrote.
I’ve got better things to care about.
Go do so then.
