- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
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Culture war issues will never go away until people figure out where the real source of their pain comes from. It comes from the 1 percenters. It’s a class war. It always has been.
It’s far, far less than 1%. It’s more like the 0.0001%.
64 billionaires divided by 38 million people times 100 = 0.000168% of the population. I like where your head is at but 1 percenter is an old and inaccurate term.
Well yeah, but it’s easier to say 1%. Then explaining it’s actually fewer we have to eat that’s just a bonus.
Yeah but it’s wrong. The 1% don’t control all the companies and real estate, the billionaires do.
However The 1% are all a part of the bourgeoisie.
380 million, if you’re talking about the US.
While I think the rich are one of the most influential sources of it, I’m not convinced they’re the only or even the majority. Like, of the rich stopped using bigotry to divide people, would people stop being bigoted? I don’t think so at all. I think there’s something wrong with humanity that makes it easy for bigotry to evolve even in the absence of power and perhaps worse, for people to want to be bigoted.
If sapolsky is to be believed we have the natural inclination to view in- and out- group as part of our brain. Everything else is learned or a coping mechanism. I guess this is why people propose lived multiculturalism especially during childhood as a solution to xenophobia.
No matter if he can be believed or not on this fact the book is fun wiki
If the culture war is the class war then the class war is the culture war. Dealing with the culture war is often many many times more actionable. We can and should deal with both.
Culture War is used by the Ruling class to distract from the Class war, the only way to win the Culture War is to win the Class War.
Ok but I don’t have to not defend trans people to be anticapitalist. It isn’t a “distraction” it is a front, to extend the war analogy.
The attitude arguing the culture war doesn’t exist doesn’t mean you are above it, it just mean you are abandoning your comrades who are under attack.
class war is way more fun, just look at tf2!
Now I want a team based FPS game where classes are the economic classes.
And you can decide to revolt and switch around the teams to make it proletariat versus bourgeoisie. (The French sure have weird spelling btw)
What ever team that can hold the most strategic points/means of production long enough wins.
tbh English isn’t that much better than french at that. Just in this sentence there are a bunch of syllables that don’t sound like they should. Y’all can’t even decide if color has a u in it 💀
approves in Romance language
no language is perfect, the other guy was just saying french has weirder spelling than english
German is perfect. Everyone will agree how to spell Schifffahrkarte the moment they hear it.
Of course, but english is in the weird spelling side of the spectrum. For (maybe an extreme) example Japanese spelling bees must be boring af cause words are spelled exactly as they are said, and with few exceptions (in kana) every sound has only one character associated with it (two cause there’s a second alphabet/syllabary with them)
On the flipside they also have literally thousands of characters in yet a third alphabet because reading only the phonetic ones is a pain in the butt and there are so many homonyms oh my god
“Culture war” = “issues that don’t affect me personally”.
Yeah, class reductionism will only ever lead to more oppression of those already marginalised.
If your leftism doesn’t include intersectionality, you’re doing it wrong.
(to be clear - “culture wars” are a right winged distraction, but they are based on very real and massively impactful systems of oppression that they are trying to maintain, ignoring this only enables them, and guarantees those systems will remain even if we get economical change)
If your leftism doesn’t include intersectionality, you’re doing it wrong.
Similarly, if your intersectionality doesn’t include leftism, it’s literally worse than useless because it functionally works to maintain the underlying material conditions that served to create whatever social injustice you are fighting.
This also is true, yes.
This is the right take, IMO. Labelling race, gender etc issues as “diversions” has the same flavour as “I know the slaves are oppressed, but freeing them doesn’t end capitalism, does it?”
The diversion is the idea of rainbow capitalism. For example: fighting for the right for people of any identity to own slaves is not a valid goal and also won’t “free the slaves.” Ending slavery is the goal. Rainbow capitalism acts as a shell game to divert energy toward token concessions and labels them victories. Anti-racism and feminism should be (and I would say, are) at the core of any coherent flavor of leftism, but diverse oppression is still oppression and a rainbow flag on a Raytheon missile is not a win.
Edit: should have read the comment further down. Said what I meant but with gooder words.
I definitely don’t equate intersectionality with culture war, but I think it’s important to understand why capitalism has adopted intersectionality in the specific way it has. A lot of the debates about it on the left seem to be rooted in conflating intersectionality with how it’s commodified. Like you can think Robin D’Angelo is ridiculous without throwing intersectionality out the window.
All the big names I’ve seen labeled class reductionists are basically involved with diversity and intersectionality at some level, and openly express their support of those sort of initiatives, or have actually benefitted from them and admit it. Adolph Reed had a great example of when they were negotiating their collective agreement the EDI commitments were one of the first thing signed off and agreed to, but it took them a year of arbitration to get more sick days or something like that. It’s the same with my union as well. It just shows how capital is not against EDI or intersectionality, they’re against exploiting people less.
Issues that don’t alter economic arrangements yet are the focus of mainstream politics, or issues amplified and masqueraded as politics for this specific purpose. The idea that people you resent being treated worse than you is a political achievement, is the foundational mechanism of culture war. As the basic economic arrangement is no longer on the table or negotiable politically, politics increasingly becomes focused on individual resentments. The right is fueled by culture war right now more than any other political faction.
It does seem like a good diversion tactic to blame a completely unrelated minority for a completely unrelated problem when you really want to protect billionaires from raised taxes.
I mean just move the discussion as far away as possible from them.
They want people to punch down, blame the person scraping by on welfare or the person who’s identity is maligned for what is actually caused by massive wealth disparity. MLK Jr didn’t advocate fighting a vague notion of racism, he convinced black and white unions they were stronger together and that economic equality as a class program was the mechanism to combat the issue, with specific laws and legislation and job action as the tools available. In a certain context, the biggest advocacy group for the rights of gender non-conforming individuals in the world right now is the AFL-CIO.
I don’t even think this is even that complicated.
The TEXTBOOK playbook for bringing people together to find peace, is to start by finding some common ground. On LITERALLY anything. Then you build on that. “Maybe, given enough time, we can grow to understand to have enough the same that we can work together”
Culture war is the simple inversion: find something, ANYTHING that you can disagree about. Then you build on that. “Maybe, given enough time, we can grow to understand others to be different enough that working together is impossible”
That’s a nice thought, but what comes across is “Your current problems aren’t important, now support my fringe political view”
What would be a better way to frame it?
I think I meant to reply to the OP, sorry. Your comment is great, and I like it much more.
The right is way more hooked into the culture war, but plenty of leftist communities cannibalize each other via “no true Scots”-ing each other with intersectionality. I see very little patience or compassionate education on intersectionality, and instead see a competition about how quickly one can scold. Regardless of whether that’s valid, it sure as hell makes it difficult to build bonds with other groups or onboard new folks to leftist ideas.
Definitely agree and I think sometimes people conflate intersectionality with the way it’s been commodified and adopted by capital and it causes debates because it’s not precise about what the problem is. A lot of left scholars have been a lot more pointed about the “problem with diversity” not being about “diversity” or inclusion etc. It’s just important to recognize why it doesn’t threaten capitalist institutions, which doesn’t mean it’s bad, it means it’s ineffective for that purpose, it’s like being nice to people at work. Education on intersectionality that a lot of people are exposed to is often mediated/coerced by employers through business relationships with HR/diversity industry consultants. They’re presenting very specific notions of the topic that they’re able to sell to employers, and employers are being sold on it as basically a branding/marketing thing to “make the company look good,” but leadership might even be personally invested in it and genuinely want people to feel included at their company, it’s not a radical notion at all. The problem is the inherent conflict between employers and employees and how it dictates what notions of intersectionality or EDI are presented in that context.
Yeah as a culture war target I don’t have anymore choice in being a part of the war than Ukraine does. I don’t get to opt out, and people can say, “Just don’t fight the culture war, fight the class war,” and it’s like, dude, you’re telling the majority of your potential allies to fuck off and die so you can charge a pillbox solo. It ain’t gonna go well.
Its our job to turn the Culture War into Class War by showing how the Cultural injustices are caused by Class Oppression.
“Culture wars” = divide and conquer
The funny thing is you’re both right.
Working class can have little a culture war. As a treat.
Why don’t they
eat cakefight amongst themselves?
Rich people have always had the freedom to be who they are. You think wealthy gay men were beaten up in back alleys? Maybe they couldn’t announce it to the world but they pretty much got to live their lives in peace. When you don’t have to work to survive and when the world bends to your will it’s amazing how culture doesn’t seem to effect you so harshly anymore.
It’s not that culture isn’t important. It’s that the ability to live in peace for who you are tends to come automatically when you have your living taken care of.
Hm… When I woke up this morning I did not expect to see a Diebels-Alt-bottle in a meme today…
NWBTCW?
No war but the class (culture) war.
The culture war is a distraction from the class war being waged on working class people.
Thanks!
unexpectedly based
No war but class war.
Somebody has got to fighting the War on Christmas (on the side of warring against Christmas).
If locking up short people in green uniforms and making them work in my toy factory for life is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
It would help if leftist identitarians weren’t constantly purity spiraling.
They are the ones that coopted and undermined Occupy Wallstreet back in the day.
OWS was run by anarchists. They had zero goals or leadership, and they actually seemed proud of that fact. It’s kind of mind-boggling that they thought they could accomplish anything by simply camping out indefinitely.
In view of that, I really can’t blame the identitarians for trying to co-opt. If they had won, there would’ve at least been goals and an agenda, instead of…sitting in tents all day.
Identitarian goals are lib goals, it would have changed nothing the same way Rainbow Oreos change nothing
It would help if people would stop being deliberately obtuse for the sake of sounding intelligent while making a political statement. Wtf does your comment even mean, lol
Maybe if you used google or maybe even chatgpt, you would be able to decipher my “obtuse statement”.
Man, if we’d stop fighting culture war issues, we’d have won the class war. But on the Left, we always take the bait.
I always think of it like, would we rather the North fought for abolition or should the North tried to rally around universal suffrage, gay marriage, trans rights and abolition, have no states join them and have the confederacy be almost every state and slavery not stop. Like, yup, it’d be nice if everyone was on the right page right away but cultural progress takes time. And Fox news goads the Left into fighting fights that the mainstream isn’t quite ready for yet.
Reconstruction was pretty royally bungled by the Andrew Johnson presidency as well, and the Populists who fought with racial solidarity after for what was in essence a class mission were dealt with by the capitalist class.
In your head, what was the relationship between what I wrote and your response?
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