Except that Ukraine was the state that attacked its own people in the east after the west did a coup there which resulted in a civil war. Russia tried to find a diplomatic solution for 8 years while the west and Ukraine refused. Amazing how you managed to forget these important details in your story.
Meanwhile, the saddest part about your attempt to use whataboutism is that it doesn’t even make sense in this context. You continue to demonstrate just how utterly clueless you are here.
Where Russia really stuck itself in like a fly on a paper
Russia tried to find a diplomatic solution for 8 years
while keeping shooting at it, because that’s what treaties should allow us to do, besides allowing annexation of countries Belarus-style, which they hoped for.
its own puppet government of Russia, also some little green men that were also attacked by Ukraine decided to create a referendum at gunpoint with the only 2 questions of “will you join Russia?” or “will you be independent” (w/o the ability to choose to stay in Ukraine). Which frankly passed with the soviet score of 96.77%, who would’ve guessed.
That’s a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let’s take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Ukraine is clearly not some homogeneous blob, but a large country with complex cultural and ethnic situations.
And let’s just look at a few facts about Crimea from a US government study. First thing to note is that it was never part of Ukraine proper. US government referred to it as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Second thing to note is that majority of the people in Crimea do not consider themselves Ukrainian, and the biggest demographic considers themselves Russian:
Where Russia really stuck itself in like a fly on a paper
Who do you think lives in Donbas genius?
while keeping shooting at it, because that’s what treaties should allow us to do, besides allowing annexation of countries Belarus-style, which they hoped for.
It was literally Ukraine that kept shelling people in Donbas, but keep trying to pretend that black and white here.
I already know the answer. The platform they won on was to normalize relations with Russia and implement Minsk agreements. Then when they got in power they did the opposite. You should educate yourself on the subject so you don’t make a clown of yourself in the future.
There were posted images of old elections, giving the impression of a country divided by pro-europe or pro-russia when in 2019 there was a big support for the pro-EU and pro-NATO party all over the country. Just wanted to provide some context there.
Sure, I was pointing out the fact that the referendum was held at gunpoint with actual Russian soldiers and the fact that there was no question on remaining inside Ukraine (you just seem to pile up links supporting your totally different, unrelated arguments while calling me an ignoramus because I do not take them into account)
Crimea is populated by Russians and has been part of Russia until Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine which was entirely symbolic given that nobody thought USSR would fall apart back then. Claiming that people in Crimea were forced at gunpoint to be repatriated is the height of idiocy. Especially given that the US study I linked for you earlier clearly shows that most people felt that way even before 2014.
The links I provide are directly related to the discussion and provide important context. The fact that you claim they’re unrelated further highlights that you’re not arguing in good faith.
Well documented with Kremlin propaganda and utter bullcr*p. We do know how trolls and Kremlin puppets deal with such things.
Kremlin propaganda from western sources, we’ve got a real galaxy brain here.
I didn’t quite get the question, but if you were asking about “who” then it depends on who you ask, am I right? /s
Work on your reading comprehension then you won’t sound like such a 🤡.
This is really funny, because you actually think you’re winning the argument, but to everyone with more then 3 brain cells you just got utterly destroyed :D
@yogthos Sure, that’s what an attacked state does, abide by half-assed treaties imposed by their adversary
Well, thanks for trying out
Except that Ukraine was the state that attacked its own people in the east after the west did a coup there which resulted in a civil war. Russia tried to find a diplomatic solution for 8 years while the west and Ukraine refused. Amazing how you managed to forget these important details in your story.
Meanwhile, the saddest part about your attempt to use whataboutism is that it doesn’t even make sense in this context. You continue to demonstrate just how utterly clueless you are here.
@yogthos
its own puppet government of Russia, also some little green men that were also attacked by Ukraine decided to create a referendum at gunpoint with the only 2 questions of “will you join Russia?” or “will you be independent” (w/o the ability to choose to stay in Ukraine). Which frankly passed with the soviet score of 96.77%, who would’ve guessed.
Sure, if it’s for democracy, it’s a coup
Where Russia really stuck itself in like a fly on a paper
while keeping shooting at it, because that’s what treaties should allow us to do, besides allowing annexation of countries Belarus-style, which they hoped for.
Gee, I wonder why
That’s a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let’s take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Ukraine is clearly not some homogeneous blob, but a large country with complex cultural and ethnic situations.
And let’s just look at a few facts about Crimea from a US government study. First thing to note is that it was never part of Ukraine proper. US government referred to it as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Second thing to note is that majority of the people in Crimea do not consider themselves Ukrainian, and the biggest demographic considers themselves Russian:
It was literally a coup, and this is well documented in western media. One has to be utterly intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
Who do you think lives in Donbas genius?
It was literally Ukraine that kept shelling people in Donbas, but keep trying to pretend that black and white here.
You wouldn’t if you weren’t an ignoramus.
Here’s a link to the 2019 presidential election if you’re interested. Zelensky is in green.
This is the result for the Servant of the People (Zelenskys party, which is pro EU and pro Nato)
Hey, quick question there, what was the platform they ran on again?
No idea, I’m not ukranian! You’ll have to search for that yourself.
I already know the answer. The platform they won on was to normalize relations with Russia and implement Minsk agreements. Then when they got in power they did the opposite. You should educate yourself on the subject so you don’t make a clown of yourself in the future.
Why did you ask if you already knew?
There were posted images of old elections, giving the impression of a country divided by pro-europe or pro-russia when in 2019 there was a big support for the pro-EU and pro-NATO party all over the country. Just wanted to provide some context there.
@yogthos
Sure, I was pointing out the fact that the referendum was held at gunpoint with actual Russian soldiers and the fact that there was no question on remaining inside Ukraine (you just seem to pile up links supporting your totally different, unrelated arguments while calling me an ignoramus because I do not take them into account)
Well documented with Kremlin propaganda and utter bullcr*p. We do know how trolls and Kremlin puppets deal with such things.
I didn’t quite get the question, but if you were asking about “who” then it depends on who you ask, am I right? /s
Crimea is populated by Russians and has been part of Russia until Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine which was entirely symbolic given that nobody thought USSR would fall apart back then. Claiming that people in Crimea were forced at gunpoint to be repatriated is the height of idiocy. Especially given that the US study I linked for you earlier clearly shows that most people felt that way even before 2014.
The links I provide are directly related to the discussion and provide important context. The fact that you claim they’re unrelated further highlights that you’re not arguing in good faith.
Kremlin propaganda from western sources, we’ve got a real galaxy brain here.
Work on your reading comprehension then you won’t sound like such a 🤡.
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This is really funny, because you actually think you’re winning the argument, but to everyone with more then 3 brain cells you just got utterly destroyed :D
Removed by mod
Your comments are nothing but an attempt at a burn with no real reply.
#bebest