• @doofer_name@feddit.de
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    836 months ago

    I hate point 2 and 3.

    I have an avarage travel of 45-55 minutes from my home city to the city I work in. By car and by train, while the train is usually on the slower end. It takes about 20-30 minutes to get from my home to the train station by taking the bus or riding the bike. When taking the bus I also have to factor in about 15 minutes between arrival at the station and departure of the train. Then there is another 20 minutes from the train station at destination to my place of work. So it takes me 40-65 minutes longer taking the train… twice a day, making it 1:20-2:10h a day (when Im lucky bc trains over here have frequent delays). One hour ish doesn’t sound like much? Well you’ll feel it if you working 11-12h a shift or a 9-10 hour a day in a normal 9 to 5 job (starting work at around 7 a.m.).

    Then there is a neat little think called night or late shifts. There is no way I’m gonna take the train here. They either take an hour longer or the bus at my home city does not drive anymore on the way back.

    Demand better public transportation. Demand functioning trains and frequent bus and tram connections. But do not tell people that need to take the car for whatever reason, that they should just take the worse option and make them feel like the problem.

    I hate cars. I hate driving. And I love taking the train or taking the bike within my city. But sometimes I just have to take the car. That is not my fault tho, since public transportation is not the main focus of politics over here. And thats what needs to change globally.

    • @zerofk@lemm.ee
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      206 months ago

      When I switched from using the bus to going by bike, i cut my commute time by more than half. If I were to take the car, it would halve again. Public transport is great, and necessary. But it will never be faster than a personal car for anything but large distances.

      • @Flumsy@feddit.de
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        486 months ago

        … where you live. Where I live (in central Europe) we have a subway every 2-3 minutes and you’re at worst 2 blocks away from a stop. It all depends on the infrastructure. A subway cant be stuck in traffic…

        • @pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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          206 months ago

          Yep. Here in Berlin traveling to my old office (when I didn’t work from home all the time) with the S or U-bahn took 30-35 minutes and by car/taxi about 40-45 minutes due to the traffic.

          • @TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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            126 months ago

            Berlin is one of the few german cities where public transport is done right. In cologne, where I lived, there are a lot of stops, but the inferstructure is just realy bad. They managed that trains get stuck in traffic too sometimes. And for some reason they trains only arrive in a 10-30min time window. So if you want to follow one line it’s relatively fine, but if you have to change trains you have to be lucky. In the city center still faster than driving though.

        • ikarushagen2
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          116 months ago

          Just say central european city.

          I too live in central europe and the bus line i could take from my town to the town i work in takes 1 hr to get there and back, at the end of my day the bus only departes one hour after i’m finished with work so i have to wait for the bus the same amount of time i need for both ways with my car.

          • @dafo@lemmy.world
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            56 months ago

            They should really say a European city with a subway. Not all cities in Europe have a subway.

            • @Flumsy@feddit.de
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              36 months ago

              It was pretty obvious from my comment that I live in a European city with a subway…

              I didnt say my comment applied to all European cities either.

        • Cows Look Like Maps
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          6 months ago

          Also, trams/streetcars in Zurich have right of way and the red lights change for them. Which is completely logical considering how many more people you can fit in them than a few cards at a red light. The problems with public transit in North America are a function of our car infrastructure.

      • Takatakatakatakatak
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        186 months ago

        If I rode my bike to work, my shift would be over by the time I got there. I’m really starting to like the idea of biking to work.

        • @chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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          76 months ago

          It sure is nice that everyone gets to live in New York, London, and Washington.

          A better solution is to reduce how much people need to travel. Instead of building trillion-dollartransit systems so people can to to the office we should be taxing the everloving shit out of office spaces for jobs that can be worked remotely.

          • Justin
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            76 months ago

            Why not both? I live in Stockholm and work from home. I have amazing trains that I could take to work, and I’ve never had a commute longer than 40 minutes. But a 0 minute commute is still shorter than 5minute commute.

            • @chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Because not everyone can live in fucking Stockholm.

              An apartment within 40 miles of my office in the city costs 5x as much per month as where I live. I can’t get a fucking pizza delivered to my house, much less a bus. And unless I want to smell like a gym at work the 5+ months a year it’s over 100° outside, I need to drive to the nearest bus station if I want to take transit. So I’m already having to drive and park somewhere. Then I have to pay to park at the bus station and pay again to ride the bus that drops me off 9 blocks from my office, where I’d have to walk the rest of the way.

              All told it’d add 2-3 hours to my commute and be more expensive than driving.

              But if 100% of the work I do is on the computer at the office. The real solution is to not have the fucking office at all.

              • TheRealKuni
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                36 months ago

                There are obviously other systemic problems. Cities being designed around cars isn’t the only one.

                But your rage shouldn’t be directed at the people who want to make public transit options suck less.

                • @chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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                  76 months ago

                  His solution isn’t to make it suck less. His just says how great it is to live somewhere that was designed around walking because when the city was established that was pretty much the only option.

                  The Southern US is designed around cars because until fairly recently it was very sparsely populated, so everything had to be designed around cars and air conditioning in order to develop. It was the correct decision at the time, and changing it now is much more difficult than simply saying “be like this city that was established before the steam engine.”

              • Justin
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                6 months ago

                Yeah that’s definitely a challenge, and I believe it is a failure of city planning.

                My condo is worth $300k and is within 15min of central Stockholm. The housing crisis is definitely a problem around the world, but European cities that don’t have the missing middle problem are in a much better place.

                Back on topic, even if you could work from home, it would still take you over an hour to go grocery shopping or buy a pizza, which is a huge problem. Both of those things are within a 15 min walk for me.

        • @Mchugho@lemmy.world
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          16 months ago

          So what? Subways requires a minimum amount of people to be viable. Outside of major urban centres they are useless.

          • Cows Look Like Maps
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            66 months ago

            I think the point here is that suburbs and cities have such dogshit public transit and bike infrastructure that people do everything by car. Nobody is telling those who live in rural areas to bike 30km to get groceries.

      • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        76 months ago

        I’m in Vancouver, while the system needs some improvement, the skytrain gets me right to the airport, with trains every few minutes. No parking nonsense. Driving, with traffic, is much longer. Bussing has some express routes so the trips aren’t so many stops also. until the system wxpands develooment the consideration is looking for a place nearer a stop or station.

      • @DrRatso
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        36 months ago

        A bike is faster in my city if you are decently fast, but a bus or trolley is faster than cars during rush hours, because we have public transit lanes, so while everyone in their tin cans is stressed yelling at the dumbass who just cut them off im breezing past, listening to a podcast, meditating or catching a quick ten minute nap before work.

    • @Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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      146 months ago

      I tried taking my family out on a weekend on transit. 40 minutes wait for a bus that had any room, an hour to travel 10km, and it cost us $10 each way for the family. I live in a major city but our transit is trash. It’s not fit for a city of this size.

      • @doofer_name@feddit.de
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        6 months ago

        That sounds horrible. Public transportation is such a vital thing for citys to function properly as a place to live and not just work in. And dont get me started on small towns or the countryside where not owning a car basically means you’re fucked. I cannot wrap my head around how politicians just fail to see this. Climate change might be the most urgent, but by far not the only argument for better public transportation.

      • @ahto@feddit.de
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        56 months ago

        It’s not fit for a city of this size.

        Tokyo would like to have a word with you. It’s not public transit in and of itself that is the issue, it’s the implementation.

        • @candybrie@lemmy.world
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          106 months ago

          I think you read that wrong. They aren’t saying public transit doesn’t work in a city that size, but the public transit in their city isn’t up to the standard it should be for a city that size.

    • @cadekat@pawb.social
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      56 months ago

      How likely is it that your home and work are 20 minutes away from train stations because your region prioritizes cars?

      • @doofer_name@feddit.de
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        76 months ago

        Its not just likely, thats the case. But living in the inner city is expensive here. And thats the case in most of the country.

  • @Stuka
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    456 months ago

    This memes community should be named 'Wannabe Activitists"

    • @sheogorath@lemmy.world
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      926 months ago

      You don’t. If you live where cars are not needed, e.g. Tokyo, you’ll just walk to your nearest small grocer and get the ingredients you need. That’s what I did when I stayed in Japan for work.

      • @waow@lemm.ee
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        26 months ago

        Thankfully, my little corner store will remain open during floods and other natural disasters as well as pandemics and such. So it will never be necessary for me to have more than 24 hours worth of food in my house.

      • Lightor
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        6 months ago

        So you have to essentially grocery shop before every meal? That doesn’t sound super efficient. Especially when cooking for a family.

        This also still doesn’t help with throwing like a big party where you need a large amount of food.

        Edit: So yes, all the responses are basically shop every day. I wish I had that kinda time.

        • @LucyLastic@sh.itjust.works
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          66 months ago

          Just walk in to the local shop on your way to/from wherever else you’re going (or just to get out of the house for two minutes if you’ve been working from home) … that way you can have fresh ingredients every day, and you’re walking a bit regularly so you don’t get overweight easily

        • @dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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          36 months ago

          I used to buy ingredients for my meals every second day while living in Europe. Always what I wanted or was on sale. No meal planning for the week and making a huge order / weekend mall spree.

        • SeaJ
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          It’s super simple. You stop there on your way home. When I was in Berlin, I would generally hit up the grocery store a few times a week. I did not have to worry about produce going bad because it would be used with one of my meals on the next couple of days.

          • @Navy@slrpnk.net
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            286 months ago

            Or, if we’re changing cities already we could make more accessible homes and public transit. If someone in a wheelchair can’t get onto a train you’ve made the train wrong.

            • @Wogi@lemmy.world
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              76 months ago

              I traveled up and down the East Coast with my dad when he was in a wheelchair. Every city was a little different but Amtrak has made their trains this way. A special ramp is needed, which has to be fetched by someone. Baltimore was the worst about it, but they did get us on just fine, and kicked a guy out of the handicapped starting. New York City was incredible. Dude hung out with us until our train showed up and made sure we got on and situated before regular boarding started. Though I think he had dealt with something similar personal and took it upon himself. DC was at about the level you’d expect and was pretty pleasant.

              • @Navy@slrpnk.net
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                36 months ago

                Great to hear, that is actually a lot better than I would have expected. It would still be ideal if you could use it as easily as someone not using a wheelchair but we do have to live in the real world and accommodating everyone is complicated and expensive.

            • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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              56 months ago

              Man. There’s a Korean drama on Netflix… I think it was All of Us Are Dead. The apartment building had a bodega-like grocery either on the first floor or connected to it. If we’re going to redesign, can it be like that, maybe?

              • @Navy@slrpnk.net
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                36 months ago

                Absolutely it could be like that, mixed use buildings are something we really lack in North America and are the lifeblood of a city

          • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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            186 months ago

            And that really worries me. The government should offer free options for people like that. Uber Eats and Instacart exploits the hell out of people like that.

              • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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                16 months ago

                No one said it was.

                See, I knew one of you motherfuckers was going to come in here and make it obvious you just don’t care about the actual facts, you’ve already made up your minds and seek to make up everyone else’s minds for them.

                Maybe instead of treating every single discussion of anything like an epic shitfight, you all should just pool your money together, buy your own land, incorporate it as a separate county, and build your own walkable cities and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

        • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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          256 months ago

          How do disabled people who can’t drive get their groceries?

          About 2 seconds of critical thinking leads you to this magical solution called “someone helps them” in both cases.

          • @PvtGetSum@lemm.ee
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            126 months ago

            I’m not like super pro car or anything but your argument in my experience doesn’t really hold up. I work at a farm and we have a lot of elderly folks come in and shop by themselves. They drive themselves and shop themselves but I doubt they could do that with a walker and if they didn’t have a car I doubt they’d be finding a different way to come out here.

            • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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              156 months ago

              Rural life is a whole different beast from urban. I won’t ever make the argument that rural living people shouldn’t have cars. So yeah, plus one for that argument.

              • @PvtGetSum@lemm.ee
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                26 months ago

                Rural life definitely, but I’m in suburbia hahaha. I just can’t imagine public transportation being able to replace what a car can do for elderly people

                • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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                  6 months ago

                  If the individual is so bad off they can’t manage to get on a (more robust than we currently have) form of public transit, I really question if they should be driving. The simple fact of life is that at a certain point, maintaining complete independence isn’t a reality. This isn’t a bad thing, we should be moving towards embracing building the systems we need for people to get help at that stage of life.

            • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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              26 months ago

              Friends. Family. Building facilities. Government programs.

              The simple fact is that at some point, people just can’t be completely independent. It’s the nature of growing old. This is only really a problem because we have such a strict independence culture, where if you can’t do for yourself, you may as well just die, society doesn’t have time for you.

              If we recontextualize this, and see growing old and more feeble not as some personal failing and instead as the symbol of a long life, if we start looking out for those around us, and if we start building up the facilities we need to allow people to gracefully enter elder-hood without stigma, we’d all be a bit better off.

          • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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            -56 months ago

            And that just shows a lack of empathy or life experience.

            You can’t always get help so you need to be able to get where you want to go on your own, and that means disabled people need cars.

            • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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              96 months ago

              I didn’t say it had to be an individual who needed to help. It could be any number of programs, services, or even yeah, individuals.

              I mentioned mixed use buildings in another part of this thread, something like an apartment complex with a bodega-like grocery on the first floor or directly attached. What about moving more towards that kind of building? There are a ton of solutions that don’t require cars.

            • @zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              6 months ago

              In what world is a disabled person able to board a car on their own but not a bus or train? And in what world are those busses and trains not staffed with people to help? Are we talking self-driving busses and cars with wheelchair driving options as a standard?

              Edit: Seems the response is for the disabled person to: JuSt SpEnD mOrE mOnEy ; but we couldn’t possibly be bothered to spend more on public transit to make it more accessible.

              • Carlos Solís
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                56 months ago

                At least in my country, bus drivers that need to help people in the wheelchair to get up on the bus are already at the edge of their patience. Don’t even talk about helping them stuff seven bags of groceries as well. That’s why unfortunately, taxis are still a necessity

                • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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                  I think the best solution, if we can redesign our cities, is to incorporate more mixed use buildings, or at least more mixed zoning. Why even have to have a bus if your building has a connected grocery and 3 other small shops on the same block.

                  These issues only really exist because everything is SO spread out. We have strict zoning regulations that mean having a grocery in a residential area is at best a challenge, and realistically impossible. This means we have to go further for the most mundane daily tasks, and this means we need more robust transportation, including cars.

                  ETA:rereading this it looks like I’m making an argument for no cars, buses or anything. I’m absolutely pro expanding public transportation, merely stating that if things were slightly different, you could eliminate the bus entirely from this situation specifically

              • @CADmonkey@lemmy.world
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                -16 months ago

                The car is in their driveway, where is the bus?

                If we want piblic transport, and I certainly do, we need better aguments than this one.

                • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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                  06 months ago

                  Sure this applies for suburban or rural life. Everyone has the space to have a car there. In a city, which is what my entire argument stems around (you can see elsewhere in this thread where I state I wouldn’t ever dream of taking cars from rural people), it’s more like “the car is in the parking garage connected to the apartments. And the bus stop is just in front of the apartments, maybe down on the corner”

        • @ShouldIHaveFun@feddit.ch
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          66 months ago

          How do disabled people who can’t drive get their groceries in a car centric city?

          If you can drive a car, you can probably also drive an electric wheelchair. This should be sufficient to take public transit or go to a nearby store.

          • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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            46 months ago

            By having specially designed cars that enable them to drive.

            Even the ones who by the nature of their disability can’t do anything mentally or visually taxing, like drive, don’t disprove or negate the need for cars because everyone else with disabilities need them to get around. Public transport simply isn’t suitable enough for them.

            Even old blind people who can’t pass driving tests use Uber or Lyft, because public transport simply isn’t safe or suitable enough for them, especially during grocery runs.

            • @ShouldIHaveFun@feddit.ch
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              06 months ago

              Even old blind people who can’t pass driving tests use Uber or Lyft, because public transport simply isn’t safe or suitable enough for them, especially during grocery runs.

              You are assuming a car centric city here. In a walking and transit oriented city, it is safe and suitable for blind people to be independent and move by themselves. Only cars make the cities unsafe and the lack of transit makes it unsuitable to use something else than a car.

              • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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                -46 months ago

                And I am assuming that because they are the norm you’re complaining about in the first place.

                If they’re not, then go move to one.

                It’s as simple as that. But you don’t get to demand other people lose their cars just because you don’t like them, especially disabled people that will always need them as no walkable city will replace the individual autonomy, carrying capacity and convenience a car provides.

            • SeaJ
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              06 months ago

              You seem to live in a car centric city with really shitty public transportation. My city has decent regular bus service and for those who need extra help, they have more handy centric busses that will directly pick people up on a schedule. I think even the tiny town I grew up in has a service that does the same because there are tons of older people that are not able to drive. We also have a shuttle service to the train station if you live too far away from one.

              There are solutions to these problems that tons of cities have had no problem implementing. It sounds like either yours is not one of them or possibly it is not a service you need so you just plain do not think about it.

            • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥
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              -36 months ago

              Public transport simply isn’t suitable enough for them.

              Ding dong, you’re wrong. Walkable cities are more accessible for everyone than the carcentric dystopia.

              • @rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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                06 months ago

                Ding dong, you’re wrong.

                I have an older retired mother who uses a cane and can easily move about once she gets into the store by using the cart to stabilize herself. Taking public transportation is a no-go where she lives, because the one thing that I haven’t seen mentioned here yet, is crime. As an older woman with a walking aid, she’s the prime target for criminals, who also know old and elderly tend to not trust banks and use cash.

                I do what I can to help and support her, however this is not always feasible, and in her words, she’d “be damned if she wasn’t able to get out of the house and do her damn shopping herself”.

                And she’s able to drive just fine. But I guess she should give up her car, her freedom, so you can feel better about, whatever the fuck you think it is that getting rid of cars will fix.

        • @LucyLastic@sh.itjust.works
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          46 months ago

          At 85 years old my Mum can’t drive or walk, she does her own shopping with an electric mobility scooter and occasionally needs the help of others … that works fine for her because she lives in what might be called a “15 minute city” these days.

        • @adriaan@sh.itjust.works
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          36 months ago

          I’m a bit floored by this being a question at all, my condolences. Depending on the disability, a bike, e-bike, mobility scooter, or microcar.

          • @pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
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            76 months ago

            So in other words, disabled people still need cars – they can’t ride bikes or e-bikes and scooters are too small for them – and you didn’t think about what you’re saying.

            • @adriaan@sh.itjust.works
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              66 months ago

              What? I said it depends on the disability. Depending on why you can’t walk to the store, a bike or e-bike might work. Not every disability is the same. I know people that can’t walk to the store but can use an e-bike.

              How is a mobility scooter too small for a disabled person? It’s literally designed for the purpose. And by Microcar I mean what you see in Amsterdam as microcars, not ‘a small car’.

              • @DillyDaily@lemmy.world
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                36 months ago

                As a disabled person who can’t drive, I ride my ebike everywhere. I can easily fit a week’s worth of groceries because it’s a cargo bike, which makes it even easier to balance and steer because of the way it’s weighted.

                Im lucky to live in an area that is becoming increasingly bike friendly. 10 years ago I barely left the house because it wasn’t safe to ride on the road, and I couldn’t afford uber/taxi, and there were no accessible bus stops near me.

                When something is more than 20km away I will take a bus or an uber - but there’s no reason that uber couldn’t be a microcar, or a light vehicle (like an electric version of the old milkman lorries) for those that need ramp access or electric wheelchair transport.

                At the moment in many places, disabled people are already forced to use paratransit systems because adaptive cars and taxi services are prohibitively expensive.

                There will always be a need for some people, and some communities to have and depend on cars. The goal is to reduce this to as few people as possible by making it easier for those that are able to choose other methods.

        • SeaJ
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          16 months ago

          Generally there is at least one bus stop or train stop by a grocery store. The amount of walking is roughly the same.

    • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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      306 months ago

      The reason you haul entire shopping carts at once is because the trip to the grocery store is a big planned deal. That’s also the reason people buy bulk items and then let half of them expire.

      The “ideal” for bikers and train riders would be easier, quicker trips to small stores to get ingredients for the next few days. I find I’m able to fit most of my needs into one pannier.

      • @BareMetalSkirt@lemmy.kya.moe
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        206 months ago

        This changes sharply if you’re buying for more people than just yourself.

        The reason I haul entire shopping carts at once is because I don’t want to waste time shopping every day. A big 2-hour haul per month vs. 1-2 20-minute trips to the local corner konbini every day. Plus some of the bigger bulk stores deliver (this is Hinode, Tokyo; rural ones probably don’t).

        Buying in bulk is far less expensive: you pay less (duh), but you spend a lot less time on it too. If I’m buying groceries just-in-time and the nearest shop doesn’t have the ingredient I need that day, I have to go to a different shop for that one item. Lots of time wasted, and a lot of stress on top. You can’t change your mind later either, because you’ve already bought ingredients for that one meal. So I prefer to have things buffered in stock, and resupply in advance. You also use far less plastic packaging that way, e.g. buying a 25-liter premix syrup canister instead of hundreds of coke bottles.

        • @JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
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          116 months ago

          Not to mention that the grocery stores that are well located are usually more expensive. The cheaper options exist in less number and so it makes it less convenient or sometimes not possible at all to get to on a normal work day.

          You can save a lot of money that way.

          And I’m in Europe FYI.

          • Kaktus
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            16 months ago

            You save the money and spend it on a car?

            My experience is different. If I go for grocery once a week I buy a lot of stuff which rots or expires. If I buy it daily I just buy what I need, and what I want that day.

            • @JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
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              56 months ago

              Yes that’s how it works. You save some money and spend it in other shit.

              Also I don’t have a car just so I can go get groceries. I have a car for a multitude of other reasons and I can get groceries. Driving 5 mins to a supermarket has an insignificant cost, and if that supermarket is cheaper then you can save multiples of that.

              Regarding the stuff expiring, that’s just your experience. I have the opposite. There’s plenty of non perishable shit that I can get when it’s on sale because I can carry a ton of it if I came by car. Meanwhile if I go shopping by foot and I need laundry detergent I’ll just have to get whatever they have at that time. You can save a ton of money like that.

              For easily perishable food yes buying regularly is better but that also means a ton of wasted time going to the supermarket very frequently even if to get only a few items.

        • @Navy@slrpnk.net
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          46 months ago

          There are ways to do this in a walkable city.

          If a grocery store is within walking distance why not make a trip of it with the whole family? Many hands make light work. Or, just because a city is human focused instead of car focused doesn’t mean no cars at all (at least in the way I would implement it) you could rent a car for a few hours every couple of weeks.

          Obviously these ideas won’t work for everyone but they’re just off the top of my head, and unfortunately there is no system that will work for everyone. We just have to try for works better.

    • comfy
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      176 months ago

      I’ve done that. You just bring something appropriate to carry it in.

      Although now that I live closer to a smaller grocer, I just walk twice.

    • @rallatsc@slrpnk.net
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      116 months ago

      I will say that I’ve been able to bring 3-4 grocery bags onto a bus, which is enough to last me around 2 weeks. I’ve done this fairly consistently (basically whenever it’s too cold/snowy to bike) for the last couple years. It might not be possible for a family without more than one person making the trip, but for an individual it can definitely work.

      • @rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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        36 months ago

        I don’t mean this the way it’s going to sound, but…

        I’m happy it works for you, and you’re happy with it. It doesn’t work for everyone.

        • @rallatsc@slrpnk.net
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          46 months ago

          I completely understand that, and I know that’s why a lot of people need cars. I was primarily responding to the parent comment claiming that it wouldn’t work for anyone because it’d be impossible to bring enough groceries with you on the bus/train.

          • @rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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            46 months ago

            Oh, I see now. Sorry about that. Yes it’s possible to use public transport in cases where you don’t need much and the time necessary isn’t outlandish. I think I was conflating several messages in my head when I responded to yours. Glad to see some people are able to be civil here.

    • FanonFan [comrade/them, any]
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      116 months ago

      I mean the idea is that good urban planning would enable shorter and more frequent grocery store trips. Rather than a supercenter supplying everyone within 30 miles, requiring long drives, you’d have things distributed by need, i.e. general food stores every couple miles, more specialist places potentially farther away. Our current layout and shopping habits are contingent on car infrastructure and massive federal subsidies.

      Would also decrease waste and increase general health, since fresher, less processed food could be purchased.

    • SeaJ
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      6 months ago

      Three or four bags of groceries is totally doable on a bus or train.

        • SeaJ
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          36 months ago

          A week’s worth for my family of four is generally two bags. Shopping for more than that just leaves a bunch of rotten produce.

    • @gareins@lemm.ee
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      56 months ago

      This is ok though, going once per 14days for that 90% of stuff and having your car for that is ok. Otherwise if you run out of something, hop to your nearest store. Also here some of my friends and family are not reachable via public transport so I use car for that. But dont use it for commute every day, going to the beach/mountains every weekend, going to the store every other day, taking kids to school and back etc. For many this is completely doable but people are lazy

    • @psud@lemmy.world
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      36 months ago

      Buses where I live have a cargo rack at the front. If you had four bags of shopping (though that’s really quite a lot - the bags are big) you would tie the tops closed and leave them in one of the racks until you reached your destination

      • SnausagesinaBlanket
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        16 months ago

        If you had four bags of shopping (though that’s really quite a lot - the bags are big) you would tie the tops closed and leave them in one of the racks until you reached your destination

        Along with the 75 other passengers doing the same thing?

        And what if it’s paper goods and raining like fuck?

        • @psud@lemmy.world
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          26 months ago
          1. It’s rare that more than three people on a bus are doing shopping

          2. Carry an umbrella, and isn’t everything wrapped in plastic now?

          • Nobsi
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            16 months ago

            It’s rare because everyone else is shopping by car
            If we got rid of cars then it woudln’t be rare anymore. Think!

            • @psud@lemmy.world
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              26 months ago

              Nope. Lots of people can walk to the shops. We have suburban centres typically 15 minutes walk away

              • Nobsi
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                06 months ago

                Can doesnt mean do. Most people drive distances that are longer than 8 minutes.
                If the argument to give up the car for shopping and to replace it with a bus is countered with the amount of bags on the bus, then your counter to that cannot be to just walk.

                • Did you forget what you were arguing?
    • @soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz
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      6 months ago

      Grocery delivery is quick and cheap to 99% of UK. Also I’ve been on a bus plenty of times with enough shopping to last two humans a week.

      Problem is the people who have 5 mouths to feed and want enough food for 3 weeks. In that case, get a delivery