- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Sept. 30 (UPI) – Elon Musk is under fire after publicly backing a far-right political party in Germany, suggesting the current government should not be re-elected over its position on the current migrant crisis in Europe.
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Wow. He straight up just admitted he’s a Nazi. Absolutely fucking vile.
He thinks it’s controversial to not let migrants (men, women and children) drown and die, and has no problem promoting a party which is full of nazi sympathizers.
He’s a sociopath, a racist and a fascist.
And those likely aren’t even his worst characteristics, given the stories of sexual assault, links to Epstein, and the fact his father married his own daughter.
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The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
sadfasdfasdfasdf
I don’t think I want to let him off the hook with a metal disorder.
I won’t accept that he’s a sociopath until there’s an official diagnosis. Sociopaths deserve empathy and need treatment. Musk is just a reprehensible asshole.
(By the way @Hyperreality, I’m not arguing with you. I’m taking the word “sociopath” more literally than you intended. I know what you mean, and agree.)
Even a sociopath needs to want the treatment for it to work
“Metal disorder” sounds like a decent band name.
That’s why he loves the letter X so much. With a slight modification, it becomes a swastika.
All billionaires are nazis. The fact nobody sees this is the main reason why shit has gotten so bad.
You know, these are the kind of blatant lies that ensures that no one ever believes you or your “team”.
You must not know much about german politics lol go to the wikipedia page for AFD
What does German politics have absolutely anything to do with Musk admitting that he’s a Nazi?
You know who supports Nazis?
Nazis.
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Supporting a party that Nazis also support is not the same thing as admitting that you’re a Nazi. This is not complicated.
Godwin’s law is hard at work here. I honestly wonder if people know what Nazis are anymore as people just throw around the term like it’s nothing.
Supporting a party that Nazis also support is not the same thing as admitting that you’re a Nazi
Thank you for raising this point. On first glance your conclusion seems benign enough. But we can apply a bit of critical thinking and see the true nature of what you’re actually saying.
While supporting a party that Nazis also support doesn’t automatically make someone a Nazi, it does raise questions about the platform and policies of that person. If Musk chooses to use his platform to repost and then give massive exposure to extremists, it’s worth examining why that is the case. Why would Elon Musk use his gigantic, sprawling reach to give exposure to an extremist group?
This is not complicated.
Perhaps not on a surface level. Ultimately though the world is shades of grey - we can argue black and white topics all day but it won’t change the fact that the world is inherently a complicated place with complex interactions. I believe to boil it down to “This is not complicated” is likely a barrier to better understanding how the world works. If your political stance aligns with extremists, it’s crucial to critically assess why that alignment exists. Dismissing concern over such alignment without introspection sidesteps an important ethical debate. The post in question raises some concerning questions about his responsibility to understand the wider implications of his actions. I’m curious to hear from your point of view why Musk isn’t tactfully associating himself as a supporter of extremist right-wing views?
Supporting a political party is an action with consequences. Even if you’re not a Nazi, by supporting a party that Nazis also support, you are indirectly contributing to the environment where such extremist ideologies can thrive. By excusing this type of ideology and behaviour you’re giving it the thumbs up, stamp of approval to continue.
Godwin’s law is hard at work here.
I understand what you’re putting forward here but I’d like to state that the conversation didn’t degrade into talk of Nazi’s and comparisons to Hitler. It was the basis of the discussion from the get go. Godwin’s law critiques the overuse of such comparisons, it doesn’t automatically invalidate all comparisons. Some situations may legitimately warrant such references and dismissing them outright is an oversimplification.
I honestly wonder if people know what Nazis are anymore as people just throw around the term like it’s nothing.
The world has changed, so too has how fascism and Nazism present themselves. It’s a mistake to assume that because the outward appearance and methods have changed, the underlying ideology is not the same or less dangerous. I put forward previously that the world is shades of grey; so too are the followers with their levels of commitment to the core tenets and ideologies of Nazism. Just because some modern adherents may not wear swastikas or hold rallies in the same overt manner doesn’t mean they don’t hold similar views about racial purity, authoritarianism, or other facets that defined the original Nazi party. Minimising the threat of neo-Nazis or other similar groups by arguing that “they don’t look like Nazis to me” risks underestimating the danger they pose. Extremist groups often rely on the element of surprise and the benefit of doubt from mainstream society to grow and propagate.
I honestly wonder if people know what Nazis are anymore
This is a call for complacency and it’s dangerous in the global political climate at present. This statement is a perfect example of the sort of dismissive behaviours that allow the Nazi ideology to manifest in contemporary society. Some factions of the contemporary movement intentionally distance themselves from historical imagery in order to gain mainstream acceptability. Dismissing them because they don’t fit the 1940’s stereotype allows for the normalization and sanitisation of their ideologies.
So in conclusion, you’re correct! Supporting a party that Nazis also support is not the same thing as admitting that you’re a Nazi.
You don’t have to admit it, the world can see it as plain as day.
Thanks ChatGPT
Your inability to care what words mean is not our problem.
I care what words mean. This person clearly does not. That’s the problem.
Supporting a party that’s basically just the Nazis again is the same thing as admitting he’s a Nazi.
That is what it means for him to say the things he said. That is what those words mean.
Why don’t you care?
That’s not the same thing and that’s not what he said. Why don’t you think the truth is important?
It means exactly the same thing.
He endorses a demonstrably bigoted right-authoritarian party - specifically for its attitudes toward minorities and foreign nationals. Their policy on immigration is “don’t.” Their stated goals involve mass deportation. They explicitly claim “the concept of multicultural society has failed” and “Islam does not belong in Germany.” Naturally they’re also big mad about women being equal and gay people existing. They were always extreme nationalists, and then a couple years ago their old leadership split off because their own party was starting to scare them, and as a direct result these German-nationalist Christian-supremacist anti-minority nutjobs got even more blatant.
They’re Nazis. He endorses Nazis. He is loudly and openly throwing in his lot, with Nazis.
It’s not even remotely the same thing, and lying about it only hurts your cause.
How is that? Is the AfD a Nazi party? Maybe you should let the Government of Germany know, since Nazi Parties are explicitly illegal there. Or maybe you should stop throwing around terms like “nazi” to mean “things you don’t like” unless you have something specifically actionable, that would get the party banned in Germany?
There actually are motions underway in pursuit of a party ban on those grounds, yes. It hasn’t been determined yet if their statements and objectives qualify, but there is widespread belief they do.
Germany has some of the most interesting politics to view as an outsider.
That’s certainly a unique perspective, lol. The most fundamental element of political success in Germany is to promise to keep everything as is, and maybe the current social issue voters care about. German voters are more than anything else afraid of actual change.
For the most part it is a bunch of centrist parties forming centrist coalitions with varying flavors of ideological coloring, doing not much but maintaining the status quo. Now that the economic system is increasingly failing for anyone but the rich that’s not working out for them anymore because they have been blurring together more and more over the last decades, and anyone unhappy couldn’t really find someone to vote for.
This now has given growth to the far right afd, which is still the same hyper capitalist bullshit but with a strong reactionary flavor, appealing to many conservatives and generally economically left behind people, as is happening everywhere else.
They are far right wing, and the AFD state division of Thüringen is considered extremist and is under surveillance of the Verfassungsschutz (domestic intelligence services). They have a lot of proven Nazis in their ranks and the party leadership does absolutely nothing against it.
So IMHO it’s safe to use the blanket term Nazis for the AFD, although they of course don’t see themselves as such.
We had many years of a Nazi partin Germany called NPD they were finally banned a few years ago, but obviously another party filled that spot. The AFD was far right wing but not extremist and got fast more votes than the NPD ever got. After internal fights they went more far right after they thrown out their founder. Now they are even more extreme right and you can consider them a Nazi party. Banning the party is currently under consideration.
They have a ton of Nazis in their party. Not even joking, you can call some of their top ranking members Nazis. And that has been decided by court order. It’s not slander because the courts agree that the term is fitting for some of those people. And honestly in my eyes the one that runs with Nazis is a Nazi.
Is the AfD a Nazi party?
Yes.
Its a far right party that harbours nazis/fascists.
Multiple rulings have passed that its legal to call some of their members those things.
If not all of them are, they are associating with nazis. Which makes them nazis.
In Italy, the Fratelli d’Italia (FdI) party is perfectly legitimate despite the constitution banning the PNF party from being created again. Despite FdI having roots in the MSI (Italian social movement), having a fascist symbol in their logo and some of the politicians participating in far right manifestations and declared Mussolini was a good leader, it’s complicated to define what fascist, neofascist and post-fascist is. They have traits of fascism but also not, e.g. this time they are allied with US and not against them.
Elon Musk is a South African who lives and operates in the US. Why tf is he trying chiming in about any German electoral process?
How about Apartheid Clyde stays in his lane.
He’s building a Tesla factory in Germany. So that might be why. Also it’s not just a right wing party, but the most extreme right wing party in Germany that isn’t forbidden yet.
Wait he hasn’t finished building it and it’s already suffering daily casualties? Yikes.
The fact that this gets media coverage like it even remotely matters is madness. Will there be media coverage of my posts on the topic, since it’s suddenly world news when a private American citizen comments on what is happening in another country…
Because it does matter, motherfucker has millions of people listening to him and a worldwide social media that he controls. Even if his opinions are trash, he amplifies and spreads this garbage, and gives a platform for the scum of the earth who wouldn’t have it otherwise.
Fucking Henry Ford of our age.
This isn’t Tom the small business accountant from rural Ohio commenting on Germany’s immigration policy on a facebook post. It’s someone who controls more money than the GDP of multiple entire countries, and who has already shown an interest in using his companies to influence geo-politics based on his opinions in the moment.
If anything, you should be concerned that a single individual can make choices about global politics without discussion or legal safety guards - which has historically caused some issues in the place that the AfD comes from.
To be fair, this is a private American citizen with close enough ties to far right politicians he hosted the campaign launch of one, who’s whim personally controls a major space launch provider and a site that sets the terms of public conversation and normality for a terrifying large number of people, and ohh ya, in an economic system based around the idea that the person with the most capital gets to decide what to do , well he has the most capital.
Will there be media coverage of my posts on the topic
If you’re an influential billionaire then yes, there will be.
He’s a Nazi and he supports Nazi’s
Nazis. You don’t need an apostrophe to make something plural.
I wish the news would just pretend he doesn’t exist. I’m so tired of him.
Elon Musk is starting to go so far off the deepend that we may need to call in Britney Spears dad to take conservertership of him.
I’m trying my damndest to ignore Musk. I invite you all to join me
Does ignoring influential fascists make them stop trying to increase their influence? Or make them stop being fascists?
Maybe we should ask Neville Chamberlain how well that works?
Many of the worlds problems have happened because people ignored them till it was too late
Dude just admit his a nazi? Or the far right in Germany is not what I think it is. Not familiar with the party structure there.
In 2022, it was ruled that the BfV may classify and monitor the entire party as a suspected right-wing extremist group. A corresponding lawsuit by the AfD was dismissed because “there were sufficient factual indications of anti-constitutional efforts within the AfD”.[36] On 26 April 2023, the BfV, after four years of investigations into the Young Alternative for Germany, categorized that group as a confirmed extremist organization. This allowed the chief of the BfV Thomas Haldenwang to place the youth wing under even more intensive surveillance than the tapping of phone and the use of undercover agents that had been the case until then.[45][46]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany
Just summarizing here. They are right wing extremists that have taken over old Nazi talking points and are gaining popularity with anti immigration, anti climate change and populist propaganda.
BfV is the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, a domestic intelligence agency, so somewhat comparable to the FBI in the USA.
They’re also famous for very much being “blind on the right eye”. They didn’t ban the neonazi party “NPD” (for reference: the original Nazi party was the NSDAP) and their last ex boss (Hans-Georg Maaßen) is a far right conspiracy nut.
They’ve partially come around apparently as they’re now watching the AfD (which is far stronger than the NPD ever was) as well as Maaßen.
BfV cannot ban parties. Only the highest court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) can. The only reason they did not do it was because the NPD has too little meaning to be a thread to the German constitution.
I don’t think that comparison is very fitting. The FBI is equivalant to the German Bundespolizei (Federal Police).
The BfV is more like the NSA or the Dept. of homeland security. It’s an domestic intelligence agency.
He’s been cheering for nazis for ages by now. Doesn’t that make him a nazi?
They’re against immigration, Islam, refugees, gender equality, gay marriage, and Kosher food. They want the German army to bring back conscription.
They’re fucking Nazis.
He’s endorsing Nazis.
He’s a Nazi.
Perhaps the bigger news is that far right in Germany is on track to become the biggest political bloc in the country.
Russia, China and the Republicans have been propping European far right parties for the past x decades, and now the recessions and the wars are generating easy support for the populists
USA, Ukraine, Israel, Italy and certain NATO countries have been propping up far right culture across the world. Russia and China are just boogeymen for useful idiots to scream about.
Far right factions in USA support Russia only because of the anti-LGBT social alignment, and not because Russia’s politics is far right. Russia is pretty much in alignment with socialist goals geopolitically and inside their country on the social axis (ban on Nazi elements).
Lol @ “ban on Nazis”
Russia doesn’t care about Nazis.
“Nazi Winnie the Pooh banned in Russia”
Yes, seems that they’re taking it very seriously and not just calling shit they don’t like “Nazi”. Considering this is the country that cheers on the Wagner-group, a neonazi extremist mercenary group led by open fascists and literally named after Hitler’s favourite composer (as stated by Wagner’s founder), I’m sure that they’re taking the fight against Nazism very seriously and won’t ever abuse it for propaganda reasons.
I am sure that your username is not a parody, and that you have taken things into account like:
- “western expansion” of NATO and disregard for Russia’s national security
- NATO breaking Warsaw Pact in 90s
- US ex-VP Dick Cheney stating NATO’s goals are to balkanise Russia
- how CIA implanted a colour revolution in the form of 2003 Orange protests in Ukraine
- then in 2013 with Euromaidan CIA coup
- the leaked Nuland-Pyatt call
- the famous lecture by Chicago University’s John Mearsheimer
- the murder of over 14,000 people in Donbass from 2014 upto 2022 start of conflict
and so on.
People like you are the same brainwormed zombies that scream “doing X thing means same, moral and intent do not matter”.
Italy and Ukraine are on the receiving side of the propping. Israel is a good mention but probably a lesser participant than the big three (the US does most of the dirty work for them).
In addition to supporting culturally reactionary and discriminatory governments, the far right fawns over the totalitarian strong-man geopolitics.
And as it is known, it’s convenient for Russia to build fascist-aligned support in their targets to have a casus belli for their internal audience. All while following fascist doctrines themselves
Ukraine literally has a far right Nazi government and far right Nazi troops. Zelensky worships and salutes historical Nazi people both in Ukraine and recently with Canada in UN. Italy elected a neofascist party in power. They are on the giver side, not receiver side.
Russia’s goals are in line with USSR, which, if history serves me correctly, was the opposite of fascist. You are spreading an obvious agenda that flips history.
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Can you describe these ways using a proper analysis with historical accuracy and taking into account things like NATO breaking Warsaw Pact in the 90s?
Last I checked it’s the US that’s been doing the exact same thing as nazis since WW2 https://chomsky.info/1990____-2/
And what was the path which made that possible in Ukraine and Italy? They didn’t fall to fascist populists while being a power which strengthens fascist populists globally. It’s hard to see what kind of 4D chess would make Ukraine create fascist minded separatists to be conquered and then fight them with neonazi militia.
The USSR was quite aligned with their own take on fascism. That’s history.
And what was the path which made that possible in Ukraine and Italy? They didn’t fall to fascist populists
Italy elected a neofascist girlboss as PM themselves.
As for Ukraine, refer to the leaked call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt. You will know how democratic and sovereign USA wanted Ukraine to be.
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Unlike Zelensky, Putin has not banned all opposition political parties. Tells you who behaves like NSDAP in 2023. If you think Putin is an orthodox Christian fashie, wait till you meet Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau and most western governments’ heads that actually sleep in bed with church. Putin and Russia do not exactly work the way christofascist western totalitarian dictatorships, with a “neoliberal democracy” mask, do.
Ah yes, because that doesn’t happen on its own.
Russia and China don’t have to do shit when Europe’s greatest ally is as right-wing as it it’s been. In fact, there’s even a group for this: the International Democrat Union.
Would the Russia and China far right connections and actions then be happenstance in that hypothesis scenario and how could they be explained to be unrelated?
Russia and China are irrelevant because their interests in Western economies are tertiary at best: it neither affects them ideologically nor economically.
Whether Western governments buy Russian oil is entirely independent of what government it is. Whether Western governments buy Chinese manufactured products is entirely independent of what government it is. There’s this puffed up sense of Western self-importance that doesn’t really exist: Russia and China both see that the future of global economic growth will be in the Global South and are allocating resources appropriately.
In contrast, the International Democratic Union (and similar organizations) have a strong ideological reason for backing right-wing parties and a stronger personal reason to do so: it nets them more funding from corrupt corporations looking for tax breaks and decreased regulation.
I like your pondering.
I have some notes with this theory
There’s this puffed up sense of Western self-importance that doesn’t really exist: Russia and China both see that the future of global economic growth will be in the Global South and are allocating resources appropriately.
In addition to each northern superpower abusing the hemisphere, they do fight for influence between the northern smaller ones – the aforementioned propping of accelerationist and/or reactionary movements being one way amoug the trade ones you focused on.
IDU is a good example, while it seems to be just one path to the efforts
What’s the purpose, though? China and Russia hardly need to touch it, because it’s the direction that US money is flowing anyway.
What actually resulted in far right becoming a serious force in Europe was the economic war with Russia. These parties have been fringe for decades, and now they’re polling high in most European countries.
The right took a stance against the war from the very start, while the left shat the bed by siding with the liberals. Now that support for the war is collapsing people are moving to the right.
It’s the final straw (at this moment in time) yes for a situation which has been brewed for a much longer time
Saw your edit
The right took a stance against the war from the very start
This relates more to the moderate right. The far right was openly supporting Russia and against sanctions even after the Crimean invasion. Only after 2022 mobilization they’ve started to hide this
As the economy is once again in shambles thanks to how capitalism works, the voters are easy pickings for those with empty promises
Openly supporting Russia is becoming increasingly popular in Europe https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1815302/EU-split-eastern-europe-closer-to-Russia-Ukraine-war
Yes. It’s a multi-pronged effort. Ops like these really take advantage of working classes in hardship everywhere
The hardships that the working class is suffering are direct result of the policies European governments pursued over the past two years.
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Nah they were gaining a lot even before the war. Do people have such short memories?
Look at the numbers, they exploded after the war.
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AfD is mostly populism. Apart from immigration they hardly agree on anything and have a lot of internal conflict about what the stance of the party should be.
The current situation is that the established parties (and especially the media) don’t engage much in discussion with AfD and just call them nazis, which divides the country. Admitting publicly that you vote for them will also get you thrown into the corner of people everyone calls nazis.
It is not just populism. The party is full of racists and homophobes. A member in my area even admits to believing in the great reset, which is an ultra right and anti-semitic conspiracy theory.
The AfD is a cesspool of dyed in the wool Nazis. What their official positions are is entirely irrelevant to that. And yes, if you admit to voting for them, people will think you’re a Nazi.
That’s because the AfD is a fascist Nazi party and thus idiots voting for them are Nazis, too. Easy.
Fuck Nazis. Especially billionaire Nazis.
this guy’s a threat
He’s fucking with fish that are way bigger than him.
This is absolutely wrong. He is the big fish in this Capitalist planet. But besides, the fact that he is supporting one of Germany’s legal and legitimate political parties in their ostensible democracy is absolutely not something that anyone anywhere should be afraid of doing.
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The same would be true of any billionaire on earth. But since Governments exist to serve billionaires like musk, there is nothing he needs to worry about.
Someone lock him up
Or better, seize all his peoperty and money
Why not both?
I hope that if he steps foot in any country that experienced the horrors of Nazism, that the locals take to the streets to forcefully eject him from the country. He should be denied entry by the EU entirely.
Edit: I also hopes Germany does something about the AfD, who don’t appear to be congruous with Nazi anti-glorification laws.
He only wants a political party that will side with his delusions. Unfortunately his delusions sided with nazis.
No, you see, HE isn’t a Nazi, he just happens to agree with everything Nazis say.
According to an expert assessment from the German Institute for Human Rights that’s a hundred pages long, all the conditions for banning the AfD party are met. Talks about the urgent need to do so are being kicked off. If a party ban is seriously being considered, you know they are doing something wrong. Party bans in Germany are very difficult to achieve for obvious historical reasons. So far only two have been banned, one of them was the SRP, the follow-up party of the Nazi party.
Considering that recent polls show the AfD at ~30% in some states, I doubt banning it will work. The only reasons it’s gotten this big is abysmal politics by the current and former govt. I’m pretty sure banning it is only going to make things worse. And I am not at all convinced you can truly consider them ban worthy like actual Nazis, even though the current govt would very much like you to think this way.
It doesn’t matter how much money he has - every time I visualize Musk posting to Twitter, I see him as a teenage edgelord in a shabby suburban tract house, hunched over an off-the-shelf desktop PC in a room with green shag carpeting and fake wood paneling, lit only by the glow from the screen, giggling to himself.
Twitter is so easy for people to get off of. But they won’t.
Now, if any companies could give any serious competition in the US to SpaceX (launch or Starlink) and Tesla, that would be phenomenal.
Space travel isn’t profitable. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done, of course, but the way it works is that pieces of shit like musk wedge themselves in the space and then like a leech start siphoning public funding from NASA just because idiot or senile senators would rather allocate more money to private industry then fund a public good. So SpaceX get’s subsidized, and NASA gets privatized.
Regarding the profitability - spaceflight isn’t profitable yet. Some companies are trying to do manufacturing and mining that could be profitable in the future, especially if launch costs keep dropping. Moving heavy industry off planet seems like a good goal to me. That’s also ignoring different imaging and communications companies that are doing alright.
Regarding privatization - NASA has contacted out services from their literal beginning in the Mercury program. Contracting out basic/boring launch makes sense to me and lets them focus on bigger ideas. I don’t really think SpaceX is “subsidized” vs winning contracts to deliver hardware and provide services, especially when you compare to their competition for programs like ISS commercial crew/cargo and Artemis human landing system, where their direct competitors (Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Blue Origin, etc) are more expensive.
My big gripe is that no one else has launch capacity right now, so SpaceX has no pressure to get cheaper and companies don’t have a choice. Ariane 5 retired, Atlas V is booked out, and Vulcan, Ariane 6, New Glenn, Neutron, Terran R, etc. are not flying yet.
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He can make them angry, but they’re still gonna suck his dick for a Tesla plant, and kiss his ass for his political contribution.
