• u/lukmly013 (lemmy.sdf.org)@lemmy.sdf.org
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    11 months ago

    A highly compatible design with no ads, unnecessary images, videos, animations, scripts that goes straight to point delivering you exactly the information you need and nothing else? Something that’s easily accessible even with old feature phones allowing older people to get information easily?
    Simply something that loads instantly and just works?

    Who would want that?

    • Norgur@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Found the backend dev. “CUT THIS AESTHETICS NONSENSE! GIMME THE VARIABLE CONTENTS ALREADY! WE’RE 3.54 NANOSECONDS BEHIND!”

      • Dasnap@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Frontend: “Come on, this needs at least some flair. This isn’t the 90s.”

        Throws React at it

        • voxel@sopuli.xyz
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          11 months ago

          yeah, just css is enough.
          you don’t need js unless you need to fetch data dynamically.
          you can do all of your animations, dropdowns and transitions in css.
          like this menu i made. no js in sight.

          https://streamable.com/4ba0gg

          also fully accessible and you can tab right into it without clicking enter or whatever
          (and respects prefers-reduced-motion)

      • ErwinLottemann@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        basic responsiveness to support most devices

        Dude, that is the mother of responiveness. It literally supports all the devices.

      • tetha@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        Entirely true.

        I’m currently working on a little project that’s interesting to me (a low-spoiler walkthrough system for adventure games) and after a lot of back and forth, I decided to cut all of JS out of the picture. Just get rid of all of it, and do good old 90s server-side rendered HTML with modern CSS placed on top of it.

        And that’s, honestly, a joy. The first draft of a page looks like the first screenshot, then you add some semantic classes to the html and throw some simple CSS at it and it looks acceptably neat. And I could get rid of so much janky toolchain I just fail to understand.

    • chorkpop@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      No one who is going to pay you wants that. All they care about is user engagement.

  • ghariksforge@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    The page at the top looks perfectly fine. It’s useful, it gets the job done and it’s lightweight.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Shorter lines are easier to read because it’s easier to find the beginning of the next one. Rule of thumb is indeed a maximum of about 80 characters, go take a random printed book and see how long the lines are they’re like that for a reason. (Newspapers are shorter because smaller print, also, more opportunities for headlinest).

            The contrast and line spacing stuff – debatable. But adjusting line-width is pretty much a must. Not doing anything somewhat worked on 4:3 monitors but it’s definitely awkward on 16:9 and on 21:9 your head is definitely on a swivel.

            Oh and those large margins are very useful for things like footnotes, btw, or meta-information about the text (like those textbook “this is an exercise” stylings, just move the marking over to the margin). There’s also plenty of place for a hierarchical list of contents, always on screen, and various other nav stuff. None of that will degrade loading or runtime performance to any noticable degree.

            Also of course note that that’s for text-heavy content, stuff you read as in reading an article or book, not stuff you look at in the sense of “reading” a poster. In this case you can e.g. turn those bullet-points into rectangular areas (also come up with a sixth one, then) and display them in a grid, each containing, well, what they contain now but also a link to further information. You see that pattern all over the place on the modern web and it’s a good one. Would need quite a bit more content than is present on those websites, though, otherwise you have more navigation shenanigans than content. You don’t need a fucking library index for a post-it note.

            Source: My HTML is rusty as fuck but I know TeX.

            • Pxtl@sh.itjust.works
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              11 months ago

              Counterargument: if you need narrower text, you can adjust the size of your browser window. If I want wider text, you’ve capped it.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                That is absolutely horrible UX: User interaction should not be required for your site to be legible. If you are one of the 0.000001% of people who wants all line breaks to vanish configure reader view yourself and hit that button, but don’t force 99.999999% of users to make that extra click.

                …also, nothing whatsoever is stopping you from making line width adjustable within the page itself.

        • zaphod@feddit.de
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          11 months ago

          Hate it, fuck that low contrast bullshit that makes me think my glasses are dirtier than they actually are.

          • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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            11 months ago

            I’m on mobile and the only difference i see is the lines of text on the “better” one are spaced more so I have to scroll farther.

            Is it more legible? No, I’m not a fucking donkey and I can read a block of text like a normal person.

    • grue
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      11 months ago

      It’s almost fine. It needs to include units for the measurements.

    • MarinaDiamandis@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Oh thank goodness my browser doesn’t have to download hundreds of js and assets just to use a damn calculator

  • Square Singer@feddit.de
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    11 months ago

    Good, that we have specialists for both and nobody is advocating that everyone should be doing full-stack work… oh wait.

    • HiddenLayer5OP
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      11 months ago

      Full-stack development and devops: When you need an entire IT department but only want to pay for one person.

    • Venator@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      As a full stack developer I can assure you I can easily produce the result displayed in both those panels in the image 😏

    • lockhart
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      11 months ago

      “Full-stack” is just a term invented by stingy employers who try to get 2 for the price of 1

    • UnknownCircle@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Specialists, ah I wish I could experience that. Maybe then I would be able to see my long lost love c++ again. Instead, I must give my love freely. Javascript, Java, Kubernetes, Go, many names flit through when profit is the goal. Someday maybe, hopefully, ChatGPT will end my tired soul.

  • vera@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    what is wrong with this frontend? not enough ads? loads too quickly?

  • DharkStare@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    As a backend developer who occasionally has to work on the frontend, that top image is pretty accurate although it requires bootstrap smeared all over to pretty things up a bit. After that it will have the “Good Enough” seal of approval.

  • PowerCrazy
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    11 months ago

    God I wish weather pages were more like that first one.

    • HiddenLayer5OP
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      11 months ago

      Honestly you don’t even need to make the text field visible. If they can’t touch-type that’s on them.

        • HiddenLayer5OP
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          11 months ago

          Pfft just go there and feel the air yourself. Knowing the weather in advance is bloat anyway. If medieval sailors could launch ships without weather info and survive 30% of the time, you can too.

          • suodrazah@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Imagine having to rely on physical senses to determine the weather, how pathetic. Honestly if you can’t infer weather patterns from learned data then better get back to that CSS.

    • BlackRose@slrpnk.net
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      11 months ago

      It’s meant to be used like this:

      
      curl localhost:8000/?city=Paris | grep Temperature >> TemperaturesOfTheWorld.log
      
    • oldfart@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      You can see the programmer used Copilot, who in their right mind would want to type <?php echo htmlspecialchars($city); ?> four times

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    11 months ago

    I can make HTML look alright if I have to and it’s simple enough requirements.

    The real hell is making it look good in an email. Oh, you used something from the last 20 years of HTML/CSS progress? Well fuck you.

    • lichtmetzger@feddit.de
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      11 months ago

      But that’s mostly because Outlook is still holding us back. Come on, Microsoft, please let it die in peace already.

      • tool@r.rosettast0ned.com
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        11 months ago

        Never going to happen, same for Excel.

        Whatever future iteration of ChatGPT that eventually enslaves the human race will be using Outlook and Excel to keep track of the genocide.

      • Anticorp
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        11 months ago

        They actually made it worse in the latest version! They went from using the CSS2 standard, which was already like 20 years old, to using MS Word as the rendering engine. I would like to find whoever was in charge of that idea and slap them with a large trout. My guess is that they got a bonus by laying off whatever team was in charge of the CSS2 integration and saved a bunch of money by utilizing another program attached to some other team’s budget. MS employees are always trying to shift their costs onto other teams.

  • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    After some time toying with CSS I have decided to fuck it and whenever I need to make a website I will just either:

    • Make a plain website with no virtually no styling.
    • Use bootstrap or some other similar shit.
    • ElectricCattleman@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I used to like bootstrap. Still do. But it has some faults… Depending on your needs you’re loading a lot of CSS you aren’t using.

      Bootstrap 5.3 is 59kb before gzip. 6700 lines of code. That’s a lot to just apply some simple styles.

      There are a ton of lighter weight alternatives nowadays.

  • N3Cr0@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    From my experience, devs be like:

    Backend, yay! Frontend, nay! … and I the end, not even the backend works properly.

    • preciouspupp@sopuli.xyz
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      11 months ago

      “Hey Bob, you did add a retry when you added that call to service X?

      Umm, no?

      Oh for fuck’s sake!”

      All the fucking time.

      • tool@r.rosettast0ned.com
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        11 months ago

        This is why I got all of our devs to start building with the target of a Docker container in mind.

        And for the ones who still won’t or can’t wrap their brains around Docker, I run their shit through a Github Actions workflow that spits out their ugly baby as a Docker container. In the end, I don’t give a shit what it is, your Rube-Goldberg piece of shit is getting stuffed into a Docker container.

        “It works on my machine!” Yeah, well, your machine is now everyone’s machine thanks to the magic of containers. Now fix your broken shit so PagerDuty doesn’t call me at 3am again. Fuck.

    • JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      I much rather frontend that backend, I like making things that people actually see.