- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Suck it micro USB, mini USB, and lightning! 🪫🔋
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Only suck it lightning. It still allows standard chargers like micro USB and mini USB
Are you sure? The EU parliament explicitly mentions USB C as the new mandatory standard.
Can we bring back the charging as well, and not just the USB cable… Oh, and while you’re at it, screws instead of glue, to replace batteries would be awesome.
Thx!
There’s a rule coming into effect in 2027 that enforces user replaceable batteries for devices in the EU. https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
while 2027 is better than nothing, I still wonder why it took them so long. Glue in smartphones has been around for probably a decade now.
Also, I think, anything that has a battery, should be user replacable… even teeny-tiny earbuds.
Totally agree! It’s seemingly gotten worse recently too. My phone is 5 years old and I was still able to replace the battery at home but it took special tools and a hair dryer. The newest Pixels and Galaxy phones look impossible to do with my current skillset.
Things like Fairphone and the HMD Skyline should be the norm going forward.
There’s always an implementation period with these things, also with the USB thing, to allow companies to build and sell phones that are already in the pipeline. Expect, just as with the USB thing, replaceable batteries to become a common sight quite soon and ubiquitous by 2027. You can already get quite decent smartphones with replaceable batteries but it’s the usual suspects Fairphone, Gigaset, and (at least one model of) Samsung, those would also exist without the regulation. The “oh shit they actually passed it we’ll need to re-engineer things” models from everyone else still aren’t on the market.
And before anyone brings it up: Yes, you can make them waterproof.
Sadly, it still allows to glue batteries with very little requirements.
no keep the glue please. I love that my phone’s back just came off on its own just because it was hot outside and the glue melted away. it was fun and exciting!
While this is good news, the likes of Apple will still find ways to be “compliant” while still being total assholes about it. e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones. And they’ll do the same when mandates about repairability come in - all of a sudden the battery will have a bunch of expensive DRM’d up the ass circuitry attached to it that will cripple the phone if its not recognized or registered by one of their techs and means Apple can kill old phones by being “out of stock” of the battery.
e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones.
Just so you know, there are others who have slow speed on USB Type-C already. My mother’s Galaxy A52 has a USB Type-C port that has only USB 2.0 support for data transfer, but with USB PD 3.0 PPS charging up to 25 W.
To me it’s legitimate to use USB Type-C for better power delivery even if the chipset runs only at USB 2.0 speeds for data transfer. But hobbling a fast chipset just for product segmentation would be shitty. It is something I could see Apple doing though.
Honestly, people who still buy apple phones are dumb fucks. No way to say this nicely.
There’s a weird discrepancy where Mac Laptops are decent machines despite being on the expensive side, but iphones are just overpriced hot garbage locking you into an ecosystem.
I was honestly on the fence of getting a MacBook recently as my first newly purchased Laptop, but ultimately decided against it.
Got a fully decked out ThinkPad P14s instead for about 1800€. Meanwhile the new M4 MacBook Pro starts at 1900€. But I agree that Macs still are good value compared other Apple products.
Then the Apple Max which are decent machines for a while and then need an upgrade (which cannot be done because Apple) necessitating an entire new device.
The benefit is that by being standardized, there will be less proprietary cords and adapters. And the capability of USB-C should be adequate for sometime with the power and data transfer.
One issue, is that not all USBC cords are of the same quality. I found this recently when trying to find a cord that can be used for an external SSD, and video for a monitor. Some cords worked, the rest did not. All the cords could be used for charging, but after that, all bets are off.
The problem is that USB-C is a plug not a standard even in charging some cables won’t do as much power as others (though at least they communicate that to the power source).
I do however fully support the total USB-C rollout. In my everyday carry there’s now only one plug (2 USB-C one USB-A) and some cables that I can charge everything with, my laptop, my phone my Powerbank and even those few devices that are still USB-B micro (I just carry one USB-A to micro cable).
USB C cables have been all over the shop since the beginning, and chargers. I remember even 5 years back the problems they had. Part of that is the cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality between either end and if one end is dumb or doesn’t respond properly you get the 5V 2A default. On the other hand if you have a USB C 4.0 lightning cable and two compliant devices then potentially you could be powering 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, wifi, a graphics card even AND charging through one cable. It’s actually incredible when it works properly.
cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality
Just so you know “active cable” already has a separate meaning: They repeat the USB signals somewhere in the middle for a longer transmission distance.
I think the better idea is to pick up the terminology from the USB-IF, they speak of electronical marking, or e-markers in the cables. It’s usually a small chip integrated in one of the plug assemblies.
Funny how recently as this was unfolding, USBC chargers for certain devices only work for those devices. So yes now we will only have USBC but ones that will only work with the assigned brands
Main reason I left OnePlus is because i couldn’t use any PD chargers. Highly impractical.
Now if only we can standardize cables or at least labeling. We went from everything working wherever it would plugin to everything plugging in but who knows if it will work
Imo they should at the very least standardize some color coding and labeling. All charging-only cables are yellow, data cables are blue. Something like that.
Eu once again doing more to improve my life than my own government (tax holiday).
Canada?
The very same. I saved a few dollars here and there which I would be more than happy to trade for some decent regulations on the things I buy.
What’s funny is that I still got taxed for the expensive stuff I bought, just not a few take out orders and one toy I bought. Success?
will ti 84 calculators have to follow this?
“Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,” the EU Parliament wrote on social media X.
seems like probably yes!
yay
I haven’t read the legislation, but I get the thrust of it. They want to standardize cellular devices and also cut down on electronic waste. If it’s specifically for cellular devices, then no it won’t affect TI products. If it’s more generally to cut back on electronic waste, then yes it will affect them.
Good 👍 I just hope nothing replaces USB-C anytime soon
It’ll probably happen by the time, most of my devices will be USB-C.
USB-CDE
It’s like micro-USB-AB, but USB-CDE
USB-CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Sometimes Y not usually though
USB-C Gen. 2.4 rev. A²*
USB-C Gen 2.4 Strive is where it’s at. Pretty limited when it first came out, but it’s really great after all the updates, and apparently it’s getting a switch port next year.
Definitely didn’t expect them to add Lucy from Edge runners as a crossover though.
Hell to the yeah!
Don’t celebrate until the next version of USB comes out. Will this force everyone to adopt the newest version always or cling to the oldest?
Why are you bringing this up like it hasn’t been discussed thousands of times? Like it hasn’t been stated (and cleared) in this very post?
As long as it uses the physical type c port it’s all good. Not that I care. USB got faster and faster and I use it less and less over the years.
We transitioned from USB Micro B to USB-C.
that was before this law, so quite irrelevant to the question.
It’s very unlikely that the C-type port is changing anytime soon. Most devices will stay on whatever underlying USB version that the manufacturer deems adequate for that device.
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My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
How fast is the wireless charging these days? I’d be surprised if it’s anywhere near the higher USB PD 3.1 modes.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD, and the commission is required to review the landscape every 5 years to see if a new technology is better than USB-C that should be adopted in the future
Awesome! I knew by commenting someone educated would come along. Thank you very much.
It’s like when I make it rain or snow by washing my vehicle! I’m giving you part of the credit for it being future-focused…
⛈️
And they’re using recommendations from the USB consortium, which is comprised of all the large manufacturers in the world, so it should always be up to date during the review process.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD
Controversial opinion: I wish this wasn’t the case. So many different proprietary protocols, most of the time you’ll still need a specific adapter, and in some cases even a proprietary cable to utilize the full speed, and nowadays most devices come without the adapter.
And there’s even PPS in the PD spec allowing to request for a specific voltage rather than something in an existing list.But I do also have some personal grievances here:
-
Mi TurboCharge - This may be something based on PD, but still being something separate. I don’t know, but I do know it requires more pins than USB-A has. 5 pins. Somewhere I read this is connected to a CC pin in the USB-C connector. But no, they did not use USB-C, they used USB-A, with an extra pin. Only shortly before the phone died I finally figured out why it wasn’t charging as fast as expected - I wasn’t using their proprietary cable.
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My current phone’s interference (?) with Qualcomm QC 2.0 - Somehow when using a cable with non-perfect connection on QC-compatible adapters, when I move the USB-A connector, it starts triggering 12V mode until it finally shows overvoltage error and slows down to 7W. QC 2.0 is how my USB tester identifies it. This is a MediaTek-based device, so I don’t think it would support QC. The original adapter uses PD and some 11V 6A thing with unknown protocol. Perhaps that is where the problem originates, I don’t know what data it sends down. But testing with OTG adapter on the original brick it seems the protocol needs the extra pins of USB-C to work properly.
I’ve had 3 phones that supported some fast charging, so far 2 of them made it into a confusing mess. Had they all used just PD it would have been a better experience.
I agree, but at least requiring USB PD, as it’s written, will at least give you 240 watt USB-C charging if they offer higher than 240 watt charging through a proprietary standard
If you have a cable that supports it, which is not usually obvious. And if you have a charger that supports it, which tends to be easier, but again, not always obvious. And don’t even start on transfer speeds or whether or not it’ll support lower usb standards like keyboards and mice. (I have a fairly high end cable that supports the highest speed data transfers but a keyboard will not work on it)
Micro was the worst connector I’ve used, and I’m happy for its demise, but at least I knew what I was getting when I plugged it in.
Transfer speed isn’t part of this regulation, but yeah, making it clearer on the box the max power output on chargers and cables would be a good continuation of the requirements
at least I knew what I was getting when I plugged it in
Mostly. There was some nonsense about fast charging if the data lines were shorted together that made things weird from time to time.
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USB-C doesn’t have speeds, it’s just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.On the downside, you can’t tell what the port supports by just looking at it.
Was wondering about thunderbolt. Found this, which I interpret as
usb 4 40 = thunderbolt 4
Wow what a marketing
scumtrick to show all compatible older generations as separate products
Even with this graphic, I still don’t know what they support. Is circle-20 also 20gbps? What is the speed when there’s no number? Do the non-DP ones not support displays at all? And there appears to be no such thing as USB4-DP?
And good luck getting your grandmother to identify any of this over the phone. “Is it marked SS-subway diagram-20, or circle-20-subwaydiagram? Yes it’s etched gray on slightly different gray, go put on your strongest glasses first, grandma.”
Also, who’s at reading distance from a USB port half the time? Sometimes they’re on the front of a device, but they’re just as often hidden behind something or in a hard-to-reach place. Monitors and PCs come to mind.
It’s not like they’re going to change when you’re not looking.
USB4 supports DP and TB3.
My phone doesn’t have any kind of marking anywhere on it so I’m guessing it’s USB DP
I liked the magnetic apple connectors.
I hate Apple though.
The original MagSafe is great. I still have it on my laptop.
You can have both, like MacBooks do
Very much in favor of the mag induction charging! That should be a standard for wall plugs as well
MagSafe/Qi2 is definitely convenient, but you have to be wary of its downsides. 2 of which are:
- wireless induction wastes a good amount of energy being transferred
- wireless induction additionally heats up the battery and reduces its lifespan
But the good news is, it’s basically the defacto standard. Since Apple opened up this standard it pretty much killed all the competition. The adoption is expected to increase in the coming years.
I wouldn’t have even known what to google to learn this. Thanks for sharing! I actually love the C form factor I didn’t realize that was kinda what made it C and not what it could do. I appreciate your response.
Wikipedia is a good resource
What I don’t understand is what was wrong with mini-USB.
Too thick? Just why do people want a portable computer to be thinner that their wallet, or their notebook, or their damned pen, or that Snickers bar in their pocket which nobody made thinner. Who the hell told them that “miniaturization being the future of tech” has anything to do with the box inside which that tech is mounted being just a bit thinner? I mean, were it thin enough to put computers into printed magazine pages, maybe (I think I’ve read that someone did this, with a computer kinda as powerful as ZX Spectrum). Why do they specifically need it? Not to appear “modern”, but really?
The question is, because for me personally mini-USB was very convenient. It held well, was easy enough to stick the right way (and not ruin it trying to stick it the wrong way).
Now, I guess USB-C is fine if it can do the same and go both ways. I actually like it, except RPi 4 is the only device I have needing it.
It’s just … how can one try so many connector types for one group of standards?..
At the risk of sounding like Blizzard, don’t you have a phone? Even my previous phone, Galaxy S8 had USB-C. Or do you have an old iPhone?
Pretty much all electronics that came out in the past 4 years use USB-C. Just an example, here’s a non-exhaustive list of things that I charge with C:
- MacBook (2020)
- iPad (2018)
- Galaxy S10e (2019)
- Steam Deck (2022)
- Nintendo Switch (2017)
- Kindle (2020)
All of these are, on average, at least 4 years old. So I’m pretty sure the average consumer has already switched to primarily USB-C
When I think about it, my phone is like 2 years old. Micro-USB.
Mini-USB sucked, big time. Not so bad as micro, but yea it was bad.
The main advantage of C over all previous versions is that it’s reversible, you can’t plug it in wrong. The shape is also… “flat”?, so it’s easier to fit into the socket, mini had that wavy like thing going on.
My data source is my small kid: he’s broken 3 (and counting…) usb-mini connectors by tugging the charging PS4 controllers, and he has to ask me to connect the cable to charge them, he’s unable to do it himself yet. With his tablet, 0 usb-c connectors broken and he can plug it in himself.
I think you guys are taking about micro USB. PS4 controllers have micro, PS3 controllers had mini USB.
USB micro (not sure if you’re getting micro confused with mini, but doesn’t really matter) only supported data transfer, not video transfer (like HDMI). Some USB-C ports are data only, but it theoretically supports more than USB micro was ever capable of.
For example you can buy a USB-C to HDMI cable for a few dollars, which could theoretically plug your phone directly into your TV (if your phone supports that). But a USB micro to HDMI cable was called an “MHL adapter” and was expensive and only worked on specific MHL capable phones like this one. It has a separate box that requires its own power cord in order to work, it’s not just a simple cable. USB-C should, in theory, eliminate the need for such a thing.
If I were to guess, it would be the additional pins. USB-C PD is capable of decent power transfer while also having enough data transfer capability simultaneously. USB-C docks are a good example, seeing that you can hook up a display, charger, other USB devices, ethernet, etc and have it all go through a single cable and (compact, convenient) connector. The reversibility is an added bonus
If you bothered to read the article, you’d notice that the charger was chosen by the manufacturers a decade ago in a summons by the European commission. If Apple had complied to do what they agreed to do back then, this law wouldn’t exist. But they got whiny and litigious. So, instead of an at will standardization program, the EU decided to make it mandatory by law, to shut Apple up, and anyone else who wanted to forcibly refuse to comply. The cool thing about European law is that nothing is written in stone. Not even constitutions are considered sacred, unlike in the Americas, and can be changed at any point or amended as long as proper procedures are followed. There’s nothing, ever, preventing the EU from calling another commission of tech companies to choose a new charger, if a better one ever shows up.
I did read the article but didn’t know anything about EU law. Someone else shared an excerpt of the law and kindly explained how it worked. Thanks for your response though.
You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).
What happens if the better technology is invented by a company not part of that chosen tech club? They get to block it’s adoption?
If it’s really that much better, it’ll be used for other things and catch on, then they’ll be a part of the group.
How can it be used for other things, if this law makes that illegal?
The new law allows you to have more than one charging connector provided that either the USB-C one is the best one, or the USB-C one is as good as the spec allows. If the new connector’s genuinely better, then it’ll beat a maxed-out USB-C connector, so devices will provide it in addition to a maxed-out USB-C connector.
uh huh and when the company is sued into oblivion proving their tech is better then what? the problem with laws like this (and I generally support it) is that they give bad actors ways to club others to stifle competition.
Sued for following the law and making sure the required connector is present and functional? Unless I’m missing something, the law doesn’t require the port be exclusive. I mean, if it did, they’d have to stop including wireless charging, and I don’t see that happening.
What would they be sued with?
There is no requirement to prove that a different connector is better. They simply have to provide it and then it can be better by obvious design. Although it’s irrelevant anyway because no company is going to come up with a better adapter than the USB consortium. Practically every manufacturer is already in it.
It doesn’t. It only applies to “smartphones, tablets and cameras”, according to the article.
Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,"
Source: the article
[…] have to be equipped with […]
That does not mean only equipped with
Well now I don’t know what to believe. Anyone have a link to the legislation?
Fair. I only use cables, but my assumption would be that they would adapt to new standards. Which is effectively what this is doing to standardize it, IMO.
USB-C isn’t the best option at all because USB c isn’t USB c. It only standardises the port and connector but there are many different connectors.
https://hackaday.com/2022/12/06/usb-c-introduction-for-hackers/
This is an interesting article, but I think that this standardisation is exactly for port being the same, not for pinning specific implementation of the 600+ pages long standard.
Thanks for the article, cool read!
It’s crazy, isn’t it? But it’s not a single article… I think there are ten more.
Completely fair to assume that the complete fucking idiots who create these laws have the faintest fucking clue about what they’re doing. Don’t be so sure! This law certainly doesn’t anticipate advancement. And why would it? That would require competent people to have power to legislate, and we already know that’s impossible. Great question!
If you don’t know the answer it is of course perfectly acceptable to just not provide one.
I don’t think that will occur, because what’s the point of developing USB-G if you’re not allowed to use it in a product?
Why wouldn’t they be allowed to use it?
Computers have room for multiple ports and is where a new standard would crop up anyway even without the law, just like where USB-C started out.
Please do this for things like rechargeable electric shavers and toothbrushes as well.
Those, especially the toothbrush, need to be more water resistant. Electric teethbrush should be entirely waterproof, and I don’t think USB-C can do that.
I have seen toothbrushes with USB-C, they just connect to the docking station. Which makes sense IMO, you wouldn’t want to plug and unplug your toothbrush every time you want to use it.
If only you didn’t have to pay royalties for using USB.
Not actually true. Probably something made up by Apple so they could continue to charge you extra for their proprietary chargers
But you do need to pay for a Vendor ID, you can’t just YOLO it?
That’s probably what I heard.
I think what bugged my memory was that you have to pay for a Vendor ID.
You do‽ I had no idea. And it’d be great if the standard for USB-C was more than form only.
about time
