That does it for me. I’m changing my voter registration to independent. This party no longer represents me.
As a young voter, I’ve always been Independent because I knew Democratic party was shit.
I did mine the day after they lost to trump again. This party needs to die so a real oligarch opposition party can take it’s place.
A 74-year-old who is dying of cancer was chosen over a 35-year-old rising star at the insistence of an 84-year-old woman (who is currently undergoing hip replacement surgery) just months after an 81-year-old Presidential candidate was forced to drop out of the race because he showed sever symptoms of cognitive decline during a debate. If this were a satire about a gerontocracy, I would think it was too over the top.
And a 78 year old is president elect
Unfortunate, but it’ll give her more time to work with Bernie and labor leaders to organize a general strike
They will never let her. She’ll get the Bernie treatment time and again.
“Everyone sort of made the case that they would be the best to help change the message across the country. … He’s a very good communicator,” said Beyer.
Oh yeah that’s exactly what’s going to fix the problem Democrats have. Electing another old ass Clinton era Democrat to a position of power. It’s not like everybody’s pissed at them for losing the Presidency, the House, and the Senate all in one go.
See it from their perspective. They are doing their hardest to be as useless as possible and people still vote them.
At this point, how pissed everyone is matters jack shit because they know their public loves outrage for the sake of outrage, and the very same public that votes them, is totally neutered and incapable of choosing or voting for anything else
They are using the fact that people can’t go anywhere else and are weaponising that to do absolutely nothing.
It’s not like everybody’s pissed at them for losing the Presidency, the House, and the Senate all in one go.
With their amazing communication skills.
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Gerry Connolly more like Gerry Atric.
If AOC sticks with the Democratic party instead of going independent she proves the DNC was right to deny her power. Why bother caving to AOC’S demands if she will keep sheepdogging people to the party and get nothing in return?
She lost to a 74yr old…yeah that guy needs to retire. Get out of the fucking way.
Democrats running out of foot to shoot themselves in
AOC runs several investigations that lead to results.
Connelly… Is old and has seniority.
Great fucking job Democrats. Getting my seat warmer ready for
20222026 already!AOC should abandon the Democratic party. She should join Bernie as an god-damned Independent.
She and Bernie should start a progressive party.
I’m tired of Democrats bowing to oligarchs.
I read that as Democrats blowing oligarchs… Same feel tho
Look up the spoiler effect to learn why they don’t.
That’s a false worry.
As a Canadian with multiple political parties in our house of parliament, numbers don’t change.
If one left party gets 100 seats, the second left party gets 20, and the right leaning party gets 115 (for example) The right leaning party, yes technically, gets to say they’re in charge. But they can’t really do anything without cooperation from the left.
115 < 120 regardless of the number of parties.
Parties matter less than right vs left matters.
Yes, but if one left party gets 100 votes, the second left party gets 20 votes, and the right leaning party gets 115 (for example) The right leaning party gets the seat.
I’m sure you’ve seen examples of Liberal and NDP votes combined outnumbering the Conservative votes on a riding but the Conservative still won.
Yes. That’s my point. It’s called a minority government and it means no one side can do anything without collaboration from the other side no matter who’s nominally “in charge”.
I’m not talking about total seats, I’m talking about in one specific riding. Whatever district you are in, if the Conservative MP in your area gets 40% of the vote, and the liberal and NDP MPs each get 30% of the vote, the Conservative wins the seat and the other parties get nothing in that district, despite 60% of voters voting for left leaning parties.
I think it’s awesome that Canada is able to support more than 2 parties, but that doesn’t mean the spoiler effect doesn’t exist.
Worrying about the spoiler effect is why were here in the first place.
Make the DNC the spoiler… I think Bernie and the squad could pull enough Dems away, plus get enough new people, to actually have a bigger party than the DNC
We’re already spoiled due to a fucking useless DNC. A complete replacement is warranted at this point.
Replacement takes years, during which it’s spoiling every race and letting us slip into fascism.
We’re already in the age of an authoritarian oligarchy.
Do you think this is the worst it could get?
Republicans have the majority in all 3 houses and it’s 4 years until the next presidential election. When should they be trying to reform things?
Democrats have been spoiling every race and letting us slip into fascism, so we might as well try something different, right?
Doing the same thing they are doesn’t seem like it’s doing anything different…
They can worry about the spoiler effect… Or they can worry about the massive amount of people who don’t vote because they feel it’s pointless or barely muster enough care to do it.
The fact that these experienced politicians whose judgment you appear to trust, have both decided to work within the existing system should probably sway your opinion of what the optimal strategy is at least a bit more.
There are usually two parties because the game-theoretic dynamic of this electoral system has a significant channelizing effect on the likeliest outcomes. Once you’ve accepted that reality, the (admittedly unsatisfying) optimal strategy becomes apparent.
I say this all with zero rancor - I do not like these arguments either, but the logic of it is difficult to see past. I would prefer the system be overthrown entirely but, and this is key, you go into the revolution with the populace that exists - and they’re going to have their own ideas for what comes next. I’m not so sure I’d like what they bring to the table.
The fact that these experienced politicians whose judgment you appear to trust, have both decided to work within the existing system should probably sway your opinion of what the optimal strategy is at least a bit more.
I like them but would I don’t think I would consider them that successful in respective of their peers. This system is literally against them being successful.
That’s so.
A career in politics hasn’t attracted much high quality talent in general, I think they’d be more successful if there was more of a sense of politics being a good option for good people. It mainly attracts scum these days.
Unfortunately, you are correct. Politicians [in general, not all of them] suck.
Nobody needs to worry about people who don’t vote.
“You don’t vote” is what Democrats say to anyone they don’t want to listen to, regardless of whether they actually vote.
Democrats need to listen to people who vote.
But the person I replied to said they also need to worry about nonvoters. They don’t. Nonvoters don’t matter.
If they follow that logic they’ll never win, because the number of people who will unconditionally vote Dem is demonstrably not enough to win an election.
They don’t care about winning if it means lowering themselves to the level of trying to court voters.
Democrats won over 200 federal elections last month. Believe it or not, Harris was not the only Democrat on the ballot.
When it’s time to decide on policy, they don’t. When assigning blame, they’re the only thing that matters.
But they are always conveniently whoever the party doesn’t want to listen to.
The vast majority of nonvoters are politically disengaged, and there’s no evidence that their opinions differ significantly from those of voters.
The spoiler effect will work in the short term, but if a progressive party can oust the DNC in even a few states Congress should look a lot different to how it is now. A bit of pain is worth it to escape the slow death promised by the DNC.
We’re not really in a position to sacrifice the short term to fascists right now
Stares at the election results I don’t think they needed to wait for anyone to sacrifice anything.
My point is we shouldn’t also be sacrificing the short term, because the wealthy elite in the dnc don’t care, they win either way. We don’t. Ousting them is less destructive than ignoring the biggest flaw of first past the post election systems
My point is we shouldn’t also be sacrificing the short term, because the wealthy elite in the dnc don’t care, they win either way.
That’s preferable, but it’s nearly certain that a strong left wing party would result in more Republican victories due to the spoiler effect. As far as I understand you can only have one or the other (or neither) here.
Yeah… That’s what I was saying
I’m glad congressional Democrats are finally taking steps to deal with their sclerotic, ineffective and increasingly out-of-touch leadership and building a future with younger—oh wait.
The thing that made me so pessimistic about the future of this country was when I learned that the people who advised Hillary’s 2016 campaign were still advising Harris’ 2024 campaign. They failed multiple times and the consequences have been catastrophic, but they held on to their positions anyway. I have no reason to think they won’t be back in 2028, because the people who have a say in who gets party leadership are people selected by the old leadership. We need a borderline hostile takeover of the Democrat party, and after Trump did it to the Republicans, the existing powers in the Democrat party only entrenched themselves further.
The mayor from Jaws 1 was still the mayor in Jaws 2.
They failed multiple times and the consequences have been catastrophic,
They succeeded in the only thing that matters to Democratic leadership: They kept a progressive from winning the nomination.
the people who advised Hillary’s 2016 campaign were still advising Harris’ 2024 campaign.
And still running the DNC.
Biden and Kamala inherited everything from Hillary, the people behind the scenes are the same, and are still likely listening to Hillary
She’s like our Dick Cheney
I’d almost believe that Hillary ordered her people to sabotage the campaign if it wasn’t the exact same “centrist” message the establishment Dems have been pushing since Carter.
She wouldn’t have needed too.
The party burns money at an insane rate, and only gets money thru the “victory fund” which (I’m not even exaggerating) is money laundering.
They’ve been doing it since 2015, it’s the status quo now.
Whoever has the keys to that donation machine is the DNC, because they control the money. And because the reason the VF can take so much,his it’s taking the limit for state parties they defacto control the state party. If a state doesn’t join the agreement, the DNC doesn’t support that state. We only have numbers for 2016, but those states average less than 0.5% of what the DNC was supposed to have paid.
We’ll see what happens at the 2/2/25 DNC chair election, there’s actually a decent chance we keep someone good. But if they get another money hungry neoliberal in there, we have to accept the people who run the DNC no longer represent Dem voters and they’re unwilling to listen. We’ll have three years before the next primary starts winding up, and it may be finally time to push a third party.
It’s almost as if the gop pays the dems to be stoopid. That would explain a lot.
Replace “GOP” with “corporate oligarchy” and you’re getting it!
same difference amirite
But if they get another money hungry neoliberal in there, we have to accept the people who run the DNC no longer represent Dem voters and they’re unwilling to listen.
You still haven’t accepted it?
The future of this country is not in the hands of the Democratic party if this is the way of things.
Leadership Democrats: Fumble the ball for three downs, then throws an interception
“Well, its no longer my fault if the opposition scores.”
The democrats still think the populace is smart enough to look at the alternative and choose the less-worse option.
The country proves them wrong at every turn.
The democrats still think the populace is smart enough to look at the alternative and choose the less-worse option.
The problem is this attitude and the literally brain dead take that this is in any way strategic voting.
Democrats are a “barely, sometimes maybe not, less-worse option”. And they get to stay that way by constantly being presented as the “less-worse” option. But they aren’t. They are the enablers of the “more-worse” option every time. They sell out their base at every turn.
Follow the money.
The last guy was in his 80s…
Shit like this (Pelosi putting her thumb on the scale) is why people are questioning if they’ll ever vote Democrat again.
Shit like this (Pelosi putting her thumb on the scale) is why people are questioning if they’ll ever vote Democrat again.
Yep, 100% this is at Pelosi’s feet. Fuck Nancy Pelosi, and honsestly fuck every D Boomer in congress who won’t get out of the way for the younger generations. You are actively holding us back.
if trump keeps his promise- and this is one time I actually believe him- we won’t ever have to vote democrat again!
(because he’ll fuck over democracy and make that illegal.)
You can add me to the list. I voted democrat this previous election in an effort to prevent *gestures around* this, but I didn’t want to for a number of reasons. I don’t trust the green party with Stein. I have no idea what I will do next election. I always vote for the most progressive “local” (I’m an overseas voter, but as long as I have to file taxes and get fucked by the IRS by not being able to use retirement accounts here, I’mma vote) candidate, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything other than D and R in my district except maybe an I once or twice.
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I don’t see an alternative and it’s making me hate democracy.
I don’t see an alternative
I want to point out how this (and I’m not doing this to single it you out, but you offer an example example of how a) lack of imagination about what is possible, is the precise kind of lack of vision that brought people to the conclusion that we “had” to support Biden in the primary, because you “can’t challenge an incumbent”: they were wrong. His brain was melting out of his ears and the establishment was telling you to not believe your lying eyes and ears. Authority takes advantage of this cynicisim and abuses you with it.
Its the kind of mindset that results in “Kamala has to be the nominee”, because she’s the only viable option; turns out, she wasn’t viable. We were told she had to turn to the right, to “get centrists”; turns out, there were no centrists. We were told her campaigning with Liz Cheney was 8d chess because she’ll get “never Trump Republicans”. How’d that work out.
We’ve been conditioned into a cynical fatalism, one that is truly not borne out by reality: it does not predict the future. I can not make that point any more emphatically. This toxic fatalism is in-opposition to the results we have on hand. New ways are possible, constantly. I have no problem with either cynicism or fatalism. However, I do have a problem with a world view being expressed which doesn’t predict future states of the world. BNMW, Blue Maga, the cynical fatalists who had elevated themselves into moderators of the Democratic process this election cycle: their cynical reductive fatalism is why Democrats can’t do better. Not because it isn’t possible, but because they refuse to ask for it, and for MONTHS they refused to allow the kinds of conversations necessary to carve and change a candidate like Harris into one who could get elected.
If anyone, here there or elsewhere, was suppressing speech challenging the narratives or strategies of the Harris campaign or Democratic party, challenges that would have led to a more viable candidate had they addressed them: these are the true enemies of democracy. There is a reason why Free Speech is the first amendment. It goes beyond what the government is allowed to do or not do: its about what we’re allowed to say or not allowed to say. Its about who has power, and who is allowed to challenge existing narratives. We can absolutely change this world, but first, we have to work on ourselves, and the communities we are a part of. This cynicism is a cancer we need to stamp out.
You have all the power you need to already to make the changes. If you need inspiration: Actions speak louder than words. You have to decide if you are part of the resistance or part of a costume party. Which is what some people, recently in the news, have decided.
The future is undefined. Pretending it isn’t is giving in.
we “had” to support Biden in the primary
What primary?
Exactly.
That’s an awful lot of words to say absolutely nothing. What’s your suggested alternative that will get the 70+ million votes you need to stand a chance at the presidential level? Because encouraging people not to vote obviously didn’t work it this time. Unless a Trump win was your goal all along.
Only if your goal is to (as Blue Maga does) continue to ignore the functional reason why Democrats lost this election.
Why are you focusing on the presidency? Oust the dems in Congress in even a few blue states and you’ll be able to do a lot. Hell, start local and gain legitimacy before going after federal office. There a lot of options other than voting democrats for everything all the time.
Because other than the libertarians in Grafton, they aren’t trying to build up any kind of legitimacy. The greens show up every four years as a spoiler but don’t do anything in the off years. Their list iof elected officials has ~150 people nation wide and half of those are things like “parks committee member”. If they were actually building legitimacy from the ground up like you suggest there would be far less criticism.
This is a problem with the greens, but it doesn’t mean the only option is to vote Democrat. If you don’t like the existent third parties, the answer should be to make or participate or one, not keep doing the same thing and hope the corporate stooges don’t drive the country into the ground.
It’s a problem for the greens who are a distant fourth place in numbers behind the libertarians who are trying to go the wrong direction. I’m not sure further splintering of third parties is going to help anything.
The far right has spent several decades dragging the Republican party to the right. Progressives can do the same to the Democrats if they actually show up.
There was no more viable candidate out there in the wings. Dems lost this race before it even started, we just didn’t know it yet, because the vote is decided by how folks in swing states feel about the sitting President’s economic performance—a performance, by the way, which was stellar when compared to other countries. Everything besides the economy is theater.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about one thing, though. Vote for change in local elections. Not necessarily other parties, but the most progressive candidates within the Democratic Party. Change the organization from the bottom up. Reshape it into a more progressive institution.
Honestly the party sounds like more fun.
Unless the resistance has guns.
No more. Independent from here on out.
I did that for years with nothing to show for it. No one ever (metaphorically) came knocking on my door asking how they could win my vote away from a third party. None of the candidates I voted for even came close, except Ross Perot and if he couldn’t do it, I guarantee no one else can. That dude’s whiteboard presentations were watched by 16.5 million people in an age where there were three channels and everyone watched TV. You can’t replicate his success today and he only got 20%
You want to change things, you have to change a major party from within, and that’s the effort of a lifetime, not an election cycle.
I’m never voting Democrat.
edit: It would be election interference on account of being not American.
Ha!
And unless they do much, much better in the future, you shouldn’t. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the philosophy of accelerationism, its clear thats the kind of environment we’re in. On the bright side, it might actually be the opening we need to truly break up the two party system.
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We just tried the whole “not voting” thing and look what happened.
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Well I guess I didn’t try that. Because I’m not a dumb dumb.
Then you’ll just get the idiots voting in fascism eventually so you’d be as well to join them to speed it up.
More like Americans should just not vote anymore.
Its not a popular take, but I agree that voting probably the least important thing any American could do, politically. Its a misattributed quote but its still a good one:
Voting is the least important thing you can do, politically. There are somethings that have happened recently in the news that have vastly more impact, politically.
Voting does change things. That’s why Republicans are trying to suppress your vote. So yes people do want to make voting illegal because it does change things.
:shakes head:
Voting has such a negligible effect on policy it can basically be ignored. Its a “thing” you can do politically, but its the “least” thing possible. So minor relevant as to be largely ignorable.
HEADLINE: AFTER SEVERAL BEATINGS, DEMOCRATS LEARN NO LESSONS
More the stupid us for thinking things would be any different this time.
Let’s not forget that AOC voted to protect the rail corporation from a union strike.
kindly take your scarecrow to another field.
What they’re saying: Rep. Don Beyer (D-Va.), a Connolly ally, acknowledged Connolly’s greater seniority likely played a role in his win but argued “it wasn’t just that.”
It wasn’t just that. He also has a penis
The only thing that mattered was that his opponent was a progressive.
AOC loses key vote in House Oversight race to Gerry Connolly
an Old. White. man.
Seriously. It’s pissing me off; more so the republicans doing it. we need minority voices. We can’t expect the republicans to do it- lets just be honest here. and I doubt very much if Connolly will be able to push back nearly as much as AOC can and will. (never mind, whether or not he’s willing.)
An old white man with cancer that he announced a month ago. He should be focusing on his treatment, not adding more to his plate.
What the fuck? This is a special dipshit cherry to put on top of just automatically choosing the oldest option. Even if the leadership still hate AOC, choose someone who’s definitely going to be at the top of their game, not award important positions to so he can be proud while taking time off for his pressing health needs.
What the fuck? This is a special dipshit cherry to put on top of just automatically choosing the oldest option.
He won because Pelosi wanted him to win. That is literally the answer.
And give up all that juicy government funded healthcare?
Don’t they get it for life as a perk? All he’d lose is the power
For the moment, maybe.
but I’m fairly certain he’d get better healthcare as a serving rep over a ‘former’ rep.
Gerry Connolly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Connolly
The Congressman’s Congressman. He represents the district right outside DC. Also, prior to running for office he worked as an aide to the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations where he managed committee oversight of international economic issues, international narcotics control, and United Nations and Middle East policies, and published reports on U.S. policy in El Salvador, Central America, Israel, and the Persian Gulf region.
So, expect a guy who will toe the line on all our accumulated foreign policy blunders while banging a gavel to silence another generation of anti-war protesters.
It gets worse than that, of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Connolly#Legislation_sponsored
Sponsoring legislation with Darrell Issa - a shameless, virulent Silicon Valley shill of a politician - as Trump lards up his cabinet with Friends of Peter Thiel is a bleak sign for the future.
Dude is probably already in diapers. Old as fuck
Apparently diagnosed with cancer, on top of it all.
Democrats would rather nominate a corpse to high office than a Millennial.
Yeah, the cancer diagnosis should have been enough for him to be out. What a shit-show.
