- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemm.ee
Israel could kill everyone left in Northern Gaza if its assault on the enclave continues, a United Nations relief official warned on Saturday
“Hospitals have been hit, and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated, and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload,”
Msuya estimated that Israel’s actions in the north had killed hundreds and displaced tens of thousands. According to Al Jazeera, an Israeli siege on the north that began earlier in October has killed around 640.
“The Biden-Harris administration must stop the flow of U.S. weapons to Israel which constitutes a necessary step to halting Israel’s ongoing war crimes,” IMEU wrote on social media Saturday. “It’s time for an arms embargo now.”
That’s been the point the entire time
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Terrifying, but also completely obvious, and somehow most politicians don’t seem to be upset at the vast loss of innocent life by state terrorism.
It’s because their families aren’t the ones getting bombed…
“But you see, it’s not me, it’s not my, family, in your head, in your head, they are fighting, with their tanks, and their bombs, and their bombs, and their guns, in your head, they are crying.”
Because to them, no lives matter. Except their own of course.
The blood of their own people is also on their hands… because the IDF and the Netanyahu government uses them as human shields; it’s a fact that they play fast and lose with Israeli lives. Remember that they had intelligence an attack was highly likely around the month of Oct… they still let that music festival continue and didn’t attempt to evacuate or even warn the kibbutz near the walls surrounding Gaza. They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.
They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.
Yes. You’re replying to someone saying Because to them, no lives matter. Except their own of course. And ‘no lives matter’ doesn’t distinguish based on nationality as listed on e.g. a passport.
That’s not true, some of them care about their kids
If Israel actually completes its mission and kills every man, woman, and child in Palestine, would that make the western powers any more inclined to call it genocide?
It took us a 100 years to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
They would start to “seriously consider the possibility that perhaps something was not right”
“We will have to think about scheduling a call to plan a meeting to start having talks about perhaps organising a committee which would make a recommendation as to how we should go about getting ready to write a sternly worded press release (in which we won’t criticise Israel too much).”
They would still call it Hamas
Of course not, because they are complicit
Probably not for a few decades at least. It’s only when today’s college aged people take power that it’ll get labeled as such. And even then, it’s not a guarantee.
Long enough they can make sad movies about it.
Just think of the profit potential!
Heh. The fact we live in a world where terrible tragedies become profitable media in a few generations is a mixed bag. It’s good that people know about it, but it’s sad that it is something to profit from.
Victors may get to write history, but younger generations get to have the last word on it.
They’ll move those goalposts. “We killed everyone in Gaza by having them starve to death but we spared West Bank!”
“We didn’t massacre the Arabs who have Israeli citizenship!”
“We just deported every Arab from Israel and all territory we control, but we didn’t kill them!”
Or they’ll say something like ‘well actually, it’s genoslaughter not genocide because israel didn’t mean to kill all the Gazan’s they just did so accidentally.’
Most probably suspect it’s genocide and know they, by not speaking out, at least support it passively. But it just doesn’t matter for their immediate or the near future, so nothing will happen. Thoughts and prayers…
I see two main culprits that enable Israel to eradicate the Palestinian people and their livelihood in manner and speed we see now. The US and germany. Many other western political elites seem far more divided on the topic but probably fear the backlash of speaking out.
70% of the weapons come from the US and they will never stop to supply their FOB. Democrats or republicans will veto everything and make it as hard as possible to even reach a clear global verdict on what happened and how to classify it.
Most of the remaining 30% come from germany.
Here the key argument is that Israel is worthy of unwavering support due to the historical fact of the holocaust and the inhumane acts inflicted on the Jewish population.
Scholz said recently that the security of Israel is a National interest of germany. As a german I feel this too, although for me the state of Israel and the global jewish population we did unspeakable crimes to are not necessarily the same. There are lines that can be crossed that limit my willingness of support. It’s not unconditional and they crossed them. Israel crossed them, not the jews.
I also feel past and present crimes the jewish people had to endure can be used to understand why Israel is acting the way it does but it can’t be a justification of their barbaric way of waging this war against Hamas.
In short, nothing will change. Sorry for the long reply, this shit really grinds my gears.
US, Germany, UK, Canada, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and many more you have to dig a bit to find the details sometimes
Edit: Here info about Ireland:
I found out the other day from an interview with Irish advocate but here some info about it:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41404601.html
Most of those make sense to me as lesser culprits.
Ireland does not. Could you explain?
I added it the comments above.
I found out the other day from an interview with Irish advocate but here some info about it:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41404601.html
Thank you for posting the links. Have a good one!
Huh? Ireland? How?
I found out the other day from an interview with Irish advocate but here some info about it:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41404601.html
I thought the Irish were the champions of the Palestinian cause in Europe so this is… disappointing, to say the least.
Should have given them a part of Germany then, instead of having the Palestinians pay for your nation’s crimes
It was not ours to decide after the war but its an interesting thought. I’d like to see the outcome of that alternative timeline.
Many of the administrative positions were still filled with former Nazis. Most germans in denial of what happened. Also the winning powers seemed far more interested in the spoils of war compared to a just but self-limiting gesture of goodwill.
Sketchy ground for such huge undertaking that would have made german willingness and acceptance paramount.
Also the first thing that comes to my mind is that this decision would jave encaged the victims with the perpetrators. Tough deal to sell to the world.
I think germany is still in denial, i think part of the reason why germany is so opposed to even acknowledge palestinian genocide is because, to acknowledge it, is to acknowledge that the “israel solution” was inadequate.
On its core, the rise of hitler and persecution of jews were a result of racism. The economy fell and people started to blame the jews, it could just as easily have been another minority group.
You can actually see a similar behaviour in modern day germany, The economy went downhill because of a series of bad decisions before covid (over reliance on russian oil, closing all nuclear plants etc.) And the german population started to align themselves with neo nazi (like AfD), as evident from the last election. Neo-nazism now blames immigrants for all the german troubles.
Clearly whatever steps Germany (and the west in general) took, including the creation of israel, were not enough.
Feel free to correct me if i am wrong about anything.
it could just as easily have been another minority group.
nope.
These asshole didnt give papers to holocaust survivors. They were apatrides until 1955.
Yeah and now our industrial gas tanks are filled with non-russian gas, we got one of the most stable energy grids in Europe, we import 2% of our energy from other countries (0.5% from the nuclear power france) and export some of it on good days and energy prices & inflation rates are on a pre-2022 level. Thanks to the Green party.
Then we got rich populists like Merz, Söder, Linnemann, Spahn or Schäffler who are in close ties with the fossil fuel industry (The Republic, BlackRock, Heritage Foundation, Atlas Network, Heartland Institute, Koch Brothers) whose only target during their electoral campaigns are the Greens, immigrants and people on welfare payments. Blaming the Greens for political decissions they supported themselves while they were in power for 16 years (nuclear power exit, end of combustion engines, heating without fossil fuels and fricking bottle caps). Instead of working together with the progressives against the neo nazis from AfD they proclaim they’re the solution against their uprising by fighting against the progressives. Weimar Republic reloaded.
All while our political imbecile citizens are believing their talking points and the smear campaigns of “Welt” and “Bild” (funded by above listed networks) that the Greens will be our downfall. I would leave this stupid country if I had the money.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1842811627994759358.html
https://x.com/Tentoads4truth/status/1822625100979397011/photo/2
Right-Wing Parties are only a concern in the low populated Eastern German parts. I assure you, in Bavaria we have not forgotten Munich 1972. When Israel took care of the heads behind it pretty much every German applauded.
na klar, wofür haben die Freien Wähler bei der letzten wahl nochmal so viele punkte dazugewonnnen? iirc waren das inkl. AfD am ende +10% für verkappte nazis. bleib mal locker im Hofbräuhaus.
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The real reason is that Zionists and Western powers wanted to use Israel to colonize and subjugate the region and also solve Europe’s “Jewish problem”, a new iteration of the Crusader states.
“We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” – Theodor Herzl
Quote source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-jewish-state-quot-theodor-herzl
The belford declaration was signed for 3 reasons:
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the christians at the time thought that by sending jews to the holy land will bring forth their messiah and the world will end.
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europe (including britain) had a lot of anti-semites, and the creation of israel meant that there would be less jews in europe.
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britain wanted a buffer state/intermediate state between themselves and india so they can influence and subjugate those regions more effectively.
The only jew in the british parliament opposed both the declaration and herzl’s idea of zionism. In fact jewish community themselves opposed zionism but then hitler came to power which caused many jews to change their opinions.
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This is so disgusting. I never wanted to visit Israel even if it was for $free, but now I have even less respect for those Zionist assholes, and I had low respect for them before.
The colonization power couldn’t say the word ceasefire. I don’t think the can say the word genocide.
That is what “genocide” means.
And no political consequences.
In fact it’s anti-Semitic to investigate or charge these war crimes.
You forgot a ‘not’ in there — German government
remember Joe that the average Fritz laid the bar high when it comes to genocide.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
“It was self defense” The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
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I would not be surprised if they did that - and then continued their way south. Israel is clearly out to exterminate the Palestinian people by any means possible, from outright shooting and bombing them to starving them and killing them by witholding medical services.
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If they would nuke Gaza, they could not occupy it to the Israeli settlers, which are already distributing that land among themselves.
Pushing them around like that keeps them from accessing food, rest, shelter, and medication. It is a tried and tested method used by evil governments all over the earth. Look up “Trail of Tears”. Gaza is the same, just with a forth and back movement. Any Gaza inhabitant that dies of these conditions saves an IDF bullet, and they can claim “it wasn’t us!”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
“It wasn’t or isn’t ‘genocide,’ because …” They may enter definitional or rhetorical argumentation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
“It was self defense” The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
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that is your fantasy.
Ask people in Gaza whether this is fantasy or reality.
i don’t doubt that Hamas and affiliated terrorists unleashed a terrible war with its progrom on October 7th also for the people they hide within. but Gazans are not being exterminated. there are currently estimated less than 43,000 combat and civilian casualties from a population of more than 2 million people. that would be a very inefficient extermination and i won’t calculate how long it would take eventually for that non-existing plan to succeed.
Well, they voted Hamas in and got war, now they should remove Hamas and peace would be upon them.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
“Often, cash was delivered in suitcases by a Qatari official who was escorted by Israeli intelligence officers. According to the New York Times, Netanyahu continued backing the payments in response to Qatari questions as late as September 2023”
Please listen to “Jung & Naiv”, Episode 733. Tilo interviews an ex-IDF soldier, now peace- and anti-occupation activist. You got a very skewed view about the goals of Israels far-right zionists.
The majority of the dead aren’t even of voting age.
If it only was that easy.
As a (very ashamed) person living in Israel (I find it hard to call myself Israeli) there is no maybe or what ifs about it, Bibi wants to kill every single Palestinian and the Kahanists (ex: Naftali Bennett) want to kill every Muslim. There is no excuse, Israel is a genocidal apartheid state. If I as a person living in Israel can acknowledge that then yall .world users absolutely have no excuse.
For this reason there is the “it’s antisemitic to criticise this war”
Heck even Jews have been accused to be antisemitic for criticising Israel.
We live in a post-facts era
At this point it’s like saying “Wait, you want to STOP the Holocaust? Do you just hate Germans or something?”
- It is not antisemitic to not support Israel
- It is not against the Israeli people to be antizionist
- Its especially neither to not support the Israeli government
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial * “Hardly anybody died”*
@jordanlund@lemmy.world @Tenthrow@lemmy.world
Your ass are legally liable for spreading denialism
Water is wet, UN Official Warns.
What the hell do you think 155mm artillery shells will do to a civilian population? Gaza is also being used to conceal Israel’s expansion in the West Bank.
They are not trying to conceal much anymore
That’s what the in situ mass graves are for. They don’t want the Israeli population to see all the bodies.
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Please don’t do that. Just report the post.
Both interpretations of the word “may” are applicable here.
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That’s being charitable. They’ve completely fabricated a statement and attributed it to Msuya. No wonder their “fact check” score is so low.
How? The title is not in quotes. The quoted statement is equivalent to the title, it simply highlights that it is Israel doing the killing. The only difference is passive vs active voice.
“The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying,” Msuya said. “Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop."
OP, your post was great, and this comment was great. Thank you.
I don’t get it. MBFC is not credible so their opinion doesn’t matter.
The entire population in northern Gaza is at risk of dying according to a UN official. They are at risk of dying because Israel is besieging the north of Gaza, denying food and medical supplies, is bombing them in their shelters and hospitals, is arresting medical staff and killing civilians in all sorts of other cruel ways. That is, if they don’t starve to death or die while giving birth or from curable diseases or minor injuries.
They are dying because of Israel’s genocide. If you die in a genocide it’s because you’re being killed. So yeah the entire population of Gaza is at risk of being killed by Israel.
Using the premise that Israel is committing genocide you can see that it’s very easy to show that the two statements are equivalent.
Thank you for saying this.
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous.
That isn’t how journalism works. If you say someone said something, they had better have really said that thing. You can’t twist and rephrase it willy-nilly. For example, I could twist your reply to say:
“Caring about factual reporting is ridiculous”
— SamvegaThe entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous. Fuck anyone who pretends this isn’t so bad.
Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all. The other side can and will point to this as manipulation of the facts and use it to discredit the actual truth.
Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all.
It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”. Especially when the context of ‘at risk’ is “What Israeli forces are doing…”.
If I say your whole family is ‘at risk of’ being poisoned due to contaminants in the food in your house, a headline of “whole household may be poisoned” is completely accurate.
Unless you think ‘What Israeli forces are doing… at risk of dying’ means something else?
It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”.
Of course it is, when you’re claiming that somebody else actually said those words. If somebody tells you “XYZ” and you write that the person said “WXY” you don’t get to put their name on it and attribute those words to them.
With the full support of your government.
This is what I always say about Russia vs Israel.
Russia gives Ukrainians Russian citizenship and resettles them away from warzone with all the social security preserved.
Israel just wants to murder all Palestinians.
How can some people even see conflicts as the same category? Israel is doing straight genocide again stone age level opponents.
Isn’t that literally the Nethanyu plan?
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Trump would kill them twice /s
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Without wading into morality, one thing I think is lost on people is that Israel is seen as the “big fish”, and while they certainly have more advanced weapons, they’re just a little dot, surrounded by countries that host millions of people that openly want to commit genocide against them. 2 billion muslims overall vs. 20 million jews. The number of muslims who would openly state they would murder every jew by their own hand if they could outnumbers the amount of jews that would say the same by a vast margin, so… its complicated. If you were encircled by those who were potentially able, and motivated to erase your existence you might make some very questionable decisions too, its easy to judge those decision from the other side of the world while not facing any danger.
That’s not true, that’s only a narrative used by Israel to justify it’s history of ethnic cleansing, and now a year of genocide. Zionism is not Judaism. Not are Muslims antisemitic, which is an incredibly racist sentiment. Ethnic Cleansing has always been fundamental of Zionism and is the root of the conflict.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
- The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Historian Works on the History
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Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
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Israel chose this. They can move any time.
no, they didn’t choose Hamas and its terror. no, they can’t move at any time.