Both of these regions voted popularly to join Russia, the people there WANT to be part of Russia. As a result, Ukraine’s government has carried out terrorist actions against the regions (bombings of Donbas, shutting off water to Crimea), which is what Russia’s reacting to.
so, let’s flip this into a hypothetical. Let’s say Taiwan is currently a part of China (not as the 1C2S system that exists today, but as a fully integrated part), and the people of Taiwan voted popularly for independence. Would Taiwan be justified in fighting against the mainland for independence?
Most liberals who are supporting Ukraine in this conflict would say that, yes, Taiwan would be justified. But, because we’re talking about Russia, and because their only framework of the world is from the lens of NATO propaganda, they refuse to accept that it’s more-or-less the same thing. These two regions voted to be part of Russia, Donbas is justified in rebelling against Ukraine’s terrorism, Russia was justified in the invasion of Crimea. You can’t support the hypothetical without also supporting the real world current events, it doesn’t work like that.
Also, because I don’t wanna make another standalone comment, Russia backed/supported the Texan successionist movement like a decade ago (i’d post the Texan Nationalist propaganda video RT made, but youtube dabbed on RT’s channel). I’d gladly fight for Russia in a hypothetical Texan succession war, at this point anything would be better than Washington, even Texan Nationalists.
The first time around, Texas went bankrupt in 10 years. I doubt they’d manage to last half as long on a second attempt. I dislike Washington myself, but the bumblefucks here in Texas could only be worse at diplomacy.
Then, there’s the issue of nuclear deterrence… a Texas without nukes would be subject to being steamrolled by whoever decides they want to try, and a Texas with nukes is scarier than the invasion that would end if as a republic.
Oh, and let’s not forget that in such a climate, Texas would just let the Russian intelligence agents in to do whatever they like. Zero institutional knowledge of counter-intelligence and a big “fuck you” attitude towards the only government that has any capacity at all to do something about that. Which I suppose, is the entire point of the secession instigation coming out of Moscow.
Both of these regions voted popularly to join Russia, the people there WANT to be part of Russia.
Even were that true, how can she know that? For instance, if a new poll was somehow produced that showed fewer than 10% wanted to be annexed by Russia… would you believe that?
It’d be far easier to believe that instead, someone went in and manipulated it somehow. You’ve got plenty of villains already picked out who could be responsible for it. The CIA. The EU. Anti-Russian terrorists. Obviously, they cooked up some scheme to make it look like something other than the honest truth which is that they all love Putin and want to be part of his country.
If you would believe that, then how can you hold it against her that she believes differently? And because of those beliefs she has reached conclusions that differ from yours.
and because their only framework of the world is from the lens of NATO propaganda, they refuse to accept that it’s more-or-less the same thing.
This is little different than the bizarre and dangerous logic traps that the religious fall into. If the Devil is out there making up evidence so damning and so convincing that you’ll stop believing in God, then the only way to be a good Christian is to believe in God no matter what evidence you ever see to the contrary.
It must always be “NATO”. (A strange choice, is this now a stand-in for the United States, which should really be Russia’s villain, or are there circumstances where that just doesn’t pass the smell test even for the true believers?) No other explanations make sense. It can’t be that in other places in the world where people actually want to live, thousands of immigrants go there and tell everyone about how Russia likes to move the border markers farther south in Georgia 5 or 10 meters every night. That people go to sleep in a bed in Georgia, and wake up in the same bed which is mysteriously now in Russia.
It must be NATO. And their insidious propaganda.
All of this for what? It’s not even to defend the precious Soviet Union, but some zombie version of it which is the worst form of capitalism imaginable.
this logic is just bad.
Both of these regions voted popularly to join Russia, the people there WANT to be part of Russia. As a result, Ukraine’s government has carried out terrorist actions against the regions (bombings of Donbas, shutting off water to Crimea), which is what Russia’s reacting to.
so, let’s flip this into a hypothetical. Let’s say Taiwan is currently a part of China (not as the 1C2S system that exists today, but as a fully integrated part), and the people of Taiwan voted popularly for independence. Would Taiwan be justified in fighting against the mainland for independence?
Most liberals who are supporting Ukraine in this conflict would say that, yes, Taiwan would be justified. But, because we’re talking about Russia, and because their only framework of the world is from the lens of NATO propaganda, they refuse to accept that it’s more-or-less the same thing. These two regions voted to be part of Russia, Donbas is justified in rebelling against Ukraine’s terrorism, Russia was justified in the invasion of Crimea. You can’t support the hypothetical without also supporting the real world current events, it doesn’t work like that.
Also, because I don’t wanna make another standalone comment, Russia backed/supported the Texan successionist movement like a decade ago (i’d post the Texan Nationalist propaganda video RT made, but youtube dabbed on RT’s channel). I’d gladly fight for Russia in a hypothetical Texan succession war, at this point anything would be better than Washington, even Texan Nationalists.
The first time around, Texas went bankrupt in 10 years. I doubt they’d manage to last half as long on a second attempt. I dislike Washington myself, but the bumblefucks here in Texas could only be worse at diplomacy.
Then, there’s the issue of nuclear deterrence… a Texas without nukes would be subject to being steamrolled by whoever decides they want to try, and a Texas with nukes is scarier than the invasion that would end if as a republic.
Oh, and let’s not forget that in such a climate, Texas would just let the Russian intelligence agents in to do whatever they like. Zero institutional knowledge of counter-intelligence and a big “fuck you” attitude towards the only government that has any capacity at all to do something about that. Which I suppose, is the entire point of the secession instigation coming out of Moscow.
I mean wouldn’t a Texan republic just be like Texas today but without being part of the USA? So literally nothing would fucking change.
Even were that true, how can she know that? For instance, if a new poll was somehow produced that showed fewer than 10% wanted to be annexed by Russia… would you believe that?
It’d be far easier to believe that instead, someone went in and manipulated it somehow. You’ve got plenty of villains already picked out who could be responsible for it. The CIA. The EU. Anti-Russian terrorists. Obviously, they cooked up some scheme to make it look like something other than the honest truth which is that they all love Putin and want to be part of his country.
If you would believe that, then how can you hold it against her that she believes differently? And because of those beliefs she has reached conclusions that differ from yours.
This is little different than the bizarre and dangerous logic traps that the religious fall into. If the Devil is out there making up evidence so damning and so convincing that you’ll stop believing in God, then the only way to be a good Christian is to believe in God no matter what evidence you ever see to the contrary.
It must always be “NATO”. (A strange choice, is this now a stand-in for the United States, which should really be Russia’s villain, or are there circumstances where that just doesn’t pass the smell test even for the true believers?) No other explanations make sense. It can’t be that in other places in the world where people actually want to live, thousands of immigrants go there and tell everyone about how Russia likes to move the border markers farther south in Georgia 5 or 10 meters every night. That people go to sleep in a bed in Georgia, and wake up in the same bed which is mysteriously now in Russia.
It must be NATO. And their insidious propaganda.
All of this for what? It’s not even to defend the precious Soviet Union, but some zombie version of it which is the worst form of capitalism imaginable.