I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down

  • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.

    • fern@lemmy.autism.place
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      They were banned when reddit cracked down on any leftist thought, not because they were especially bad from what I saw.

      • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        They were banned around the same time as The Donald because everyone was tired of the shit both groups were doing.

        • fern@lemmy.autism.place
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          I do remember that, and I remember them half-assing the Donald by just letting them make a new sub (or overrun conspiracy irrc)

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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            Yeah they immediately took over Conspiracy and consolidated the hold on Conservative. Made me really sad as conspiracy used to have some incredible rabbit hole posts. Then one day it was just TD all over again.

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              IIRC, the fun conspiracists moved to r/high_strangeness or something like that.

              • imaqtpie@lemmy.myserv.one
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                4 months ago

                That sub is trash also. I think the whole conspiracy theorist subculture has been taken over by the alt right and is highly politicized at this point.

                • cass80@programming.dev
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                  The days of mild and fun conspiracy theories are over. The entire community has been fully consumed with qanon/maga/antisemitism insanity. Their minds are irrevocably broken.

                  It’s a shame. I grew up on xfiles and loved all the lore around the culture.

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                  I was afraid of that (which is why I phrased it less definitively than I could have). Good to know!

        • BakerBagel@midwest.social
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          The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical “both sides” bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists

        • TheOubliette
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          4 months ago

          They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.

          Sounds pretty cool to me.

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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            While true there was a lot more behind the decision than that final post. They had been fighting with the admins for a long time.

            • TheOubliette
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              There actually isn’t any such logic presented for the decision. Mostly just allusions to celebrating violence, the only examples of which were the anti-slavery posts I referenced.

              • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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                Maybe because you didn’t observe it happening. Reddit admins were busy as hell cleaning the place up. All kinds of rightwing subs like some of the incel gathering spots. Some for straight up Nazis like frenworld or whatever it was where they were using honk honk as code for heil Hitler. When the admins made site changes due to complaints about right wing subs, Chapo made the list because they engaged in similar activities with the main complaint being brigading other subs. Their mods refused to change to meet the new rules. The admins eventually removed some of the mods. They still refused to change afterward. Which eventually got them shut down.

                • TheOubliette
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                  Maybe because you didn’t observe it happening.

                  I did, actually. I made some of the John Brown posts lol.

                  Reddit admins were busy as hell cleaning the place up. All kinds of rightwing subs like some of the incel gathering spots. Some for straight up Nazis like frenworld or whatever it was where they were using honk honk as code for heil Hitler. When the admins made site changes due to complaints about right wing subs, Chapo made the list because they engaged in similar activities with the main complaint being brigading other subs.

                  Brigading is not an activity similar to supporting incels or Nazis.

                  I remember the subreddit mods sharing their attempts to communicate with admins on this, offering to make whatever changes would be needed, and getting stonewalled. The subreddit itself adopted a no-brigading policy and included it with an pinned automod comment on every post.

                  But this is neither here nor there because the ban announcement said nothing about brigading. Instead, they said it was about content violating their new anti-hate policy and a vague statement about mods not “reining” in users. Prior communications and the timeline suggested the only content violations were anti-slavery posts.

                  Their mods refused to change to meet the new rules.

                  How so?

                  The admins eventually removed some of the mods.

                  Which ones and why?

                  They still refused to change afterward

                  Such as?

                  The reality is that most of this was actually opaque.

        • alcoholicorn
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          The Donald had largely abandoned the sub well before it was banned though.

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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            Largely because they moved to different subs.

            The Chapo crew didn’t want to calm down with all the threats of violence and other ridiculous antics. So they left completely.

            • alcoholicorn
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              4 months ago

              Threats of violence against confederate slave owners.

                • alcoholicorn
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                  When the sub was put on probation, the post Reddit cited was justifying violence against slave owners. As far as I can tell, you just made up that they threatened Reddit admins.

                  • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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                    There were other things that went down to get them on probation. I can tell you’re gladly defending them though. Which is ridiculous so have a nice day.

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                  Huffman has been a frequent attendee at Burning Man, the annual, clothing-optional festival in the Nevada desert, where artists mingle with moguls. He fell in love with one of its core principles, “radical self-reliance,” which he takes to mean “happy to help others, but not wanting to require others.” (Among survivalists, or “preppers,” as some call themselves, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, stands for “Foolishly Expecting Meaningful Aid.”) Huffman has calculated that, in the event of a disaster, he would seek out some form of community: “Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.”

                  Spez pretty openly fantasizes about owwning slaves

        • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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          No, The Donald was encouraging political violence and was becoming a legal liability for Reddit to continue hosting. But they needed to ban a major left wing subreddit at the same time to do a “both sides bad” thing and preempt the fascist talking points about social media having a liberal bias.

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      4 months ago

      Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.

      As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

      But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

      Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.

      edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.

      • would_be_appreciated
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        But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

        I’ve never seen this - not just from that instance, but literally anywhere on the internet, even back in the forum or bb days. But I’ve been looking for something like that for years, and I’d be interested. Do you know of any specific examples of this happening?

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          The best example I’ve experienced online is hexbear’s process to derive forum ruleset with respect to their minority of GLBTQ+. The consensus was that many understood and that those that did not would follow in faith, assuming that they would soon understand. The second best online example was the GME subreddits’ cultural response to initial scaling. The consensus was that each should individually choose and the collective’s purpose was to educate, this strengthening individual wisdom.

          But, my guidance would be to first pursue such things in real life. A leftist’s best work is almost always grassroots local.

        • alcoholicorn
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          Notable struggle sessions:

          Pronouns End result: Transphobes outed themselves and were purged)

          Veganism End result: Vegans who couldn’t stop stoking the fire and anti-vegans who wouldn’t stop trolling or using indigenous people as a shield were purged, CWs were required for meat, vegans generally chilled out

          Stacking rocks End result: White guys using indigenous tribes they aren’t a part of as a shield were heavily mocked)

          Outdoor Cats End result: outdoor cats bad

          AES countries End result: For each country, there are/have been significant issues, but nearly every western criticism is worthless for understanding them due to being false or lacking the historical context.

        • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
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          I also haven’t seen this but it seems to make fun of the authoritarian excesses in Mao’s China (struggle session).

          The Three Body Problem show features this, leading a character to go mad and wanting to destroy humanity.

          The funny thing is that this post is sort of a struggle session, an attempt to build consensus against socialists.

      • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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        As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

        Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.

        F them and f you for defending them.

        This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.

        https://lemm.ee/post/4543536

        Above screenshot is from said thread.

        The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!

          • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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            Perhaps now is the time.

            No, Time for condoning class war and murder is never and nowhere.

            Go back to hexbear, you poor, uneducated, lying, bolshevik piece of shit.

            But thank you for showing anyone who may have not had an experience with you before what type of people you are.

            One can always count on that, you morons just can’t help yourself.

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            Your portrayal of them just being made into regular peasants seems to me viewing the whole affair with more than rose colored glasses.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

            All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]
            Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals, or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts.

            By most people’s reckoning in most of planet earth they stole the lawfully earned property of kulaks and either murdered them or otherwise destroyed their lives. Treating them worse than most developed nations treat burglars and thieves.

            If someone shot your grandpa and your uncle, send half your people to Siberia to die out there, and sent the other half to prison locally of course you would flee with whatever you could carry and of course you would at that point be an enemy of the regime that destroyed your life.

            So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.

            I don’t understand your justification for what is ultimately pretty horrific treatment foisted on people ultimately just participating lawfully in society up until that point.

              • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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                America didn’t go from legally sanctioning a behavior to murdering the people today who were behaving lawfully yesterday even if they were immoral fucks. If you don’t understand that then you don’t understand how normal societies run.

            • alcoholicorn
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              You don’t get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.

                • alcoholicorn
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                  The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It’s not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.

                  Would you say it’s constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          Yes, please read what the .ee admin says about where the bigoted users originate and the actions of the hexbear mods in response. It certainly speaks for itself.

      • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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        Yeah they kept being able to back the most ridiculous claims and then suddenly I was like “oh no they were right all along” and got radicalized 🤷

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              That’s the whole point of an echo chamber yes. You can say whatever you want without being challenged by other viewpoints and make anything seem plausible.

              • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                but they are linking a lot of outside sources. That’s what I mean by “backing their claims up”, studies about covid, about the ukraine war, about Israel, it’s not just someone making a claim and then everyone is nodding along.

                What I am saying is they were able to completely upend the way I see the world and you just can’t do that by claiming thengs and linking to some other claims you make.

                • AmidFuror@fedia.io
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                  Wait until you hear about Scientology! Not the criticism from haters but the really mindbending stuff they have figured out.

                  • alcoholicorn
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                    Hexbear is not able to curate who is allowed to post in other instances

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                    I was on lemm.ee when I got radicalized, all my life Ive been exposed to people claiming all sorts of things. I was a pro-NATO pro-Ukraine anti-ussr anti-china average reddit lib that they were able to convince otherwise.

            • Kaboom@reddthat.com
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              It’s surprisingly easy to backup horrible ideas, but that shouldn’t be your only concern. You also need to think about the morals and what happened last time it was tried.

              The ends do not justify the means. The means are the ends.

              • TheOubliette
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                The last time what was tried? This sounds like historical “knowledge” derived from memes.

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          I don’t think they really helped with the financing

          All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must’ve been free.

          I’m surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

          Identity politics from .ml?

          If you’re surprised at such small acts of individual praxis, you’d be amazed at what we’ve accomplished in groups.

            • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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              when I see financing like that but looking at like that isn’t incorrect

              None of the devs got paid. There are no other expenses.

              I normally expect people who hold sympathies towards hexbear to use an account on like lemm.ee so they don’t have to use more than one account to browse everything they want to see

              You expect the convenient implementation of MLK’s white moderate. But, my content should give no indication of that stereotype.

              I’ll answer your previous question: I’ve personal accounts on world, ee, ml, and hexbear. The fediverse doesn’t limit viewing content from multiple accounts concurrently. One must only choose an account to post. The only obstacle to such a tool is a means to avoid burdening the fediverse with duplicate responses to content requests. We solved that problem in a few hours.

              If you want actual insight communicated properly then you should ask in the correct venue. For example, I’d have no issue explaining in nuance on hexbear because the majority has a strong understanding or conversion of theory to praxis. I’m not even needed. Others would adequately explain on my behalf.

      • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.

          It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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            If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he “loves the gays”

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              Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It’s his implementation of those idealistic principles that’s unethical.

              The rest of what you’ve said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they’re all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.

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                  Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn’t fit the shallow narrative you chose.

                  • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                    The “facts” are things we both agreed are posted there. That’s all I need. If they’re a stalin apologist / stan then the shows over.

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          Hello, low effort neolib troll. Thanks for the opportunity to continue to speak truth.

          There’s a cultural similarity to what 4-chan was prior to the LOIC. But, they’re definitely not tankies. Sincere expressions of authoritarian means are soundly defeated and usually result in permabans. The principle and practice is consistent for MAGA, neolibs, and other authoritarians.