Saying Jews are awesome is not a valid statement, because just like every group some of them are awesome, some are neutral, and some are awful. It should say something like “Jews are regular people”
Replace it with two lines:
JEWS ARE PEOPLE
PALESTINIANS ARE ALSO PEOPLE^Nailed it.
Don’t forget to put back the hammer.
Lets remove the Holocaust is happening again too.
Right wings idiots have been using that shit for too long to water it down.
Genocide does not equal holocaust.
Genocide has happened and been happening somewhere new almost every 5 years and continuously all over the world so let’s not pretend it’s something new with Israel and Palestine either lol.
Some people are also people
JEWS ARE PEOPLE PALESTINIANS ARE ALSO PEOPLE
I feel like - while well-intended - the “also” here is kind of accommodating the belief of dimwits that this is somehow up for debate.
What about everyone else? This sign needs to be perfectly neutral. I won’t sleep until it is reduced down to one word: “People”.
PEOPLE ARE
IN THIS HOUSE, WE BELIEVE:
PEOPLE.
IN THIS HOUSE, WE BELIEVE:PEOPLE.
Fixed
ALL
LIVES MATTERPEOPLE ARE AWESOME
if you can say “Humans are awesome”, which you can whilst everyone knows the caveats to that, you can say Jews are awesome.
Humans suck. Worst sentient species I’ve ever met.
I love humans. Or anyway, I try very hard to. But they are very near the bottom of my list as well.
Still, it was an excellent rhetorical point.
Presumably, the ones committing war crimes are not awesome.
the ones committing war crimes are not doing so “as jews” though, they are doing so because they are horrible humans who happened to be born jewish.
That’s not what “valid” means. This is an opinion, so you don’t get to declare it invalid. You are free to disagree, though.
“Jews are like everybody else”
“Jews are non-monolithicaly awesome”
I’ll let it slide honestly, underscores like “the Larry Davids of the world are lit” given the rest makes clear “any genocidal maniac is evil and neither religion nor past atrocities against their ancestors will shield them from criticism”
And people, in general, are awesome ergo…
I feel we’re really ratfucking this, but how about just “Many Jews Are Awesome”
Doesn’t that cover most if not all of the various objections?
Saying Jews are awesome is not a valid statement
It’s a statement of opinion, which is perfectly valid, you just needed to say something because you don’t like Jews…
I don’t know about that. I can say “humans are awful” without any apprehension…
Damn what a blast from the past
Oh, hey Chuck Tingle, nice to see you here
So glad to see another chuck tingle fan in the wild
He is the worlds most wholesome purveyor of dinosaur porn
Oof, sorry, I think I’ve got the wrong address.
me and bigfoot will fuck
Smell my finger
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Ok, now do one for the Uyghurs.
Edit: 23 people down voted so 23 people ITT support genocide.
Did you just pop in here with “All genocides matter”?
They dont?
Edit: No answer? Just curious, what criteria are we using to pick the Genocide we are hot about?
Hey now, we’re focusing on the Palestinian genocide here.
Not the… let me check notes… anywhere that isn’t Africa, Asia, or non-Israel Middle-East.
RIP Native Americans too.
More like, “It’s a great thing to oppose the genocide of Palestinians but you’re doing it while buying shit tons of cheap trash being manufactured by a slave class that is currently being slowly tortured and genocided by the government you get that cheap shit from.”
Nobody is stopping you from doing it.
I kinda just did.
Or do you need the big flashy colors and all caps text?
You seem like a big flashy colors and all caps text kinda guy.
You’re the one who needs that, since you asked for it.
No u
That genocide doesn’t matter for…reasons.
It’s not that it doesn’t matter. It’s just were not going to talk about it because there is a sexier genocide in our favorite conflict torn region.
Or actually because the US is intimately tired to Israel and its military while having nearly nothing to do with the Uyghurs? Leverage and culpability are relevant factors here
You just hit my bingo
You’re wacking It hard enough
What should we be doing about the Uyghur genocide? What are you doing about it?
What should we do about whataboutism? It seems to be a popular alternative to engagement.
Like the what aboutism associated with distracting the electorate from every other issue on the ticket to focus solely on Gaza?
Like that what aboutism?
How is it what aboutism to confront the people most concerned about Genocide with another Genocide getting zero attention? I detect hypocrisy and this whole adversarial discussion we are having now is only proof of its existence.
Edit: How about this one? How does me commenting about another Genocide; which is seemingly forgotten by most gaza advocates; in a thread strictly about supporting oppressed people; take away from the message of the thread?
hey maybe we should stop the fucking genocide. maybe, if you’re a fucking human being with basic capacity for compassion, you could consider that SORT OF IMPORTANT, and the only other thing that could be considered more important or urgent is climate change, which there is no hope of any elected politician doing jack shit about within our (and humanity’s) lifetimes.
also tho, yeah, wish we had serious action to take to protect uighurs, kurds, armenians (FUCKING AGAIN!), etc
Never seen someone so angry about something so not controversial.
thank you for assessing my emotions and deciding that the genocide that is still ongoing and nobody has intervened in, and in some cases made BDS illegal to do, is uncontroversial.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be angry I’m saying most people agree with you. We are all captive to things beyond our control. Let me know if you want help reconciling that.
When the US is funding the persecution of the Uyghurs, the situations will be equivalent. Oddly enough, citizens of a country tend to be more occupied with the actions of their country than situations that they are not invoked in
Got it, you support genocide.
FFS. Learn to read
Lol, frustrating, no?
How about the same questions to you regarding the Palestinian genocide?
Before you answer, the US withdrawing aid would not stop the genocide. Israel has enough on hand to completely level Palestine. So what do you suggest should be done? Also keep in mind that withdrawing aid means that Israel completely stops even pretending to listen to the one country in the world that can talk to them. Also, also keep in mind that Israel has nukes.
I write to my elected representatives to request that they do something. I realize that it’s of limited value, given that the representative for my House district, Mark Pocan, agrees with me and has already voted ‘no’ on aid, and stated that he would be thrilled to personally hand Netanyahu over to agents of the ICC; Sen. Fuck Ron Johnson makes it very clear that he does not wish to hear anything from constituents; Sen. Tammy Baldwin still supports Israel, so maybe I can influence her. I wrote to Biden and said that I could not in good conscience vote for him in the primary. Bigger picture, I think that the state of Israel needs to be abolished for the long-term good of all of its citizens.
What do you want your representatives to do? Again, withdrawing aid will not stop the genocide and will only make the problem worse.
Would it?
Who right now can at least talk to Israel? Who can at least try to bring them to the table? Only the US. If the US withdraws support, there is no one else.
Plus, its like everyone keeps forgetting that Israel has fucking nukes. Given how their leadership has been acting, do you think they’ll refrain from using them if they run out of other options? How about when, not if, Iran invades? Something that’s practically a given if they don’t think the US will retaliate?
… you answer these questions, first.
I feel like there’s nothing that I can do, because my (U.S.) government already has an adversarial stance on China. It has no leverage over Chinese domestic policy whatsoever. I was hoping that somebody who clearly cares deeply for the Uyghurs could provide me some guidance to at least do something, rather than watch on helplessly.
It starts with advocating for the Uyghur, drawing attention to the ever escalating Genocide. Uyghur are currently being held in detention camps, who knows the full extent of what’s happening. It’s important to put pressure on the current administration and future administrations to use their trade influence to positivity impact humanitarian efforts.
Oh of course. Never mind go ahead and murder innocent people then. What were we thinking!?
I vow to you now, never to murder anyone.
Why don’t you?
I would be told it’s politically irrelevant, probably.You know what? Fine!
Nice strawman you have build there
You care to give it a whack?
edit:
What was that about a strawman?
Edit2:
So many men made of straw
What you’re doing is called concern trolling. You’re like a republican bringing up mental health in a gun control debate. They normally don’t give a shit about mental health issues, but as a means to distract from mass shootings it’s a great prop.
20,000 children have been murdered by Israel over the past ten months, with weapons gleefully provided by the united states. Israel is a genocidal apartheid ethnostate, and they have been for the past 76 years. The ethnic cleansing they’ve been carrying out since the nakba is another holocaust, no matter how much you chirp about issues you otherwise wouldn’t bring up, you dishonest fucking serpent.
Concern trolling? Is that what we are calling it now, got it, I’ll remember.
If we’re talking death cults can we include Islam and Christianity?
Absolutely, some of them are the staunchest Zionists
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And capitalism?
As fun as that is to say, capitalism has no reward for its fervent adherents after death. Nothing that would make its followers feel like they were doing people a favor by killing them. No capitalist utopia waiting on the other side.
O ye of little profit
Give, and the Void will provide!
Yeah, but ‘line go up’ is just as compelling to those with lines already high up.
Capitalism is a death cult because it puts a monetary value to living beings, be it people or animals. Wanna kill some people for profit? Just cut down on safety measures and if caught pay the legal fees afterwards…
The most disturbing inbred cousins of monotheism .
China has an Atheist only government policy. would you say they are the best government on earth?
That’s like saying potatoes don’t have religion do you want to be a potato.
What a stupid take. Because the official state religion is totally the only possible thing that makes a government good or bad
Just because China enforces thought crime doesn’t make it bad! 1984 was just some dumb book. Banning the number “1984” from Chinese social media just proves it. /s
My argument isn’t that the Chinese government is good, rather that their adoption of atheism isn’t the cause of them being evil.
China has some serious skeletons, for sure, but if China is evil, is the US also evil? We export far more weapons and we have bombed far more civilians. We are actively funding the genocide of Palestine as we speak.
Isn’t it weird how obsessed western media is with the ‘tank man’ photo when Greece used their tanks to crush greek college students to death and yet we aren’t even taught it?
The global oligarchy is evil. The US is full of schmucks allowing themselves to be used by the oligarchy to commit atrocities… Same as China, same as Russia, etc. I suppose it depends where you draw the line for “evil”… Are you evil for carrying out evil orders or just the person giving the orders is evil? What about the person who feeds the person carrying out the orders, are they evil too? How about the bus driver who drives the cook to the place where s/he feeds the person carrying out the orders?
If you take it far enough, one could say that as long as evil is allowed to occur anywhere on earth, we are all evil through complicity
I’d hang that on my house!
Also
- Brotherly war is bad
- Russians are awesome
- “Russian world” is a dangerous mania
- Russophobia is real
- Ukraine will be free
- Russia was under brutal dictators before
- Russia is under brutal dictator again
Has Russia ever been under a system that isn’t a brutal dictatorship?
Do brutal dictatorship systems before they became brutal dictatorships count?
Actually yes, though normally under the same people that were brutal dictators in other times. Late Lenin-early Stalin, early Khrushchev, late Gorbachev, and even early Putin himself.
The Russian people are the greatest victims of the Russian system they perpetuate
I know so many cool Russians and Ukrainians personally, it’s abhorrent what’s happening because of Russia’s dictatorship, within and without its borders.
Ok, more whataboutism! People make me sick.
That’s just me speaking about another conflict without it ever affecting this one.
The word “whataboutism” is heavily overused.
Oops, turns out I am biased.
I would upvote without the last sentence. The Holocaust was a singular event as there have been many singular events, and none repeated itself, neither as tragedy nor as farce, but some of them rhyme
Holocaust is a general term, and there have been others, here are some pictures of huge piles of skulls from the Cuban Holocaust done by the Spanish in the late 1800s:
You’ve got a point there, the term is technically older and historically used in a wider sense. Looking at google Ngrams, it was barely used before the second half of the 20th century. Words change meaning and when a word is strongly associated with one event and it was barely used before that, it is safe to say that it now exclusively refers to that.
It is extremely dangerous and part of both the new Nazis and Zionist playbook to designate the Holocaust as a “singular event”, implying that there was no genocide of similar scope before, or there could be after it.
Looking for example how Britain systematically stared more than 10 million people to death in India, the Holocaust isn’t even the worst genocide in terms of absolute numbers.
In particular in Germany this “singularity” trope is heavily used as propaganda, of how Germany has learned from its history, when it didn’t. New authoritarian measures? Cannot be compared because how dare you compare it to the rise of fascism, that lead to the one and only Holocaust?! Deliberate ramping up of racist rethoric accompanied by more violent hate crime? It is not the Holocaust so why are you saying it feels like the late 20s again?!
And of course subsequently: How dare you say Gaza is a concentration camp?! How can you imply any similarity between Israel and the Nazis?! You evil antisemite! Oh you are a renowned Jewish scholar that studied the Holocaust? Your parents have barely survived the concentration camps? Well you are against Israel so you are “alledgedly Jewish” or how about “self hating Jew”?
This is the actual discourse in Germany. Jews not aligned with Zionism are heavily targeted by Politicians and state bureaucrats in a heavily antisemitic manner. And this “Holocaust is singular” argumentation is part of it.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-strange-logic-of-germanys-antisemitism-bureaucrats
the Holocaust isn’t even the worst genocide
Yes, the Holocaust was one of many genocides. Still it is the only holocaust. You can compare it to other genocides without equalizing it (a differentiation that works much less in German).
In particular in Germany this “singularity” trope is heavily used as propaganda
True, but so is the opposite. I tried to frame my first comment not in that propagandistic way. That narrative goes like: Germany is the country of thinkers and poets, we had Luther, Goethe and Einstein, than something bad happened but all my relatives were in the resistance and after 1945 there aren’t any nazis anymore anywhere now. And it can’t repeat anyway so why bother.
That’s not how I framed it. I deliberately said it’s one of many singular events and it “rhymes” with others (including present day events)
If the holocaust wasn’t singular at all, it wasn’t that bad. Shit happens. The Nazis weren’t that bad either. Other states do similar things. We don’t have to learn from our past when it repeats anyway.
There are many lines to draw here but please have the intellectual integrity not to draw one at the usage of a single word. Take the second to look how it is used.
And there are differences between the holocaust and colonialist genocides (“the enemy within”), as there are commonalities. Each is singular and thereby they are all connected.
How dare you say Gaza is a concentration camp?!
Yes, it is, as where the gulags and the US had concentration camps for Japanese people during the Second War to End War (George Takei, the actor of Sulu in Star Trek, lived in one as a kid).
Is Israel an apartheid state? To a degree, as is the US with the illegalized immigrants and former prisoners aren’t allowed to vote (and who’s more likely to be imprisoned?) Even if the law applies to everyone the same way, to quote Anatole France: “In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets, and steal loaves of bread.” (I’ve got this quote from Worshiping Power by Peter Gelderloos)
I’m an anarchist. In my view, all states are bad. I’m not singling out Israel even though it is a good (as in evil) example. There is a lot to criticize and for much of it, you find similar things in other states also worth criticizing. While all states are and have been bad and did bad stuff, only one made the holocaust happen. Still, others did similar things. Denying this can be used for both sides.
And I still don’t know what the meme is referring to. To October 9th or the genocide in Gaza? Or to Sudan? Why is no one talking about Sudan? (Me included, I know something is going there but don’t ask me what)
If you’re a German, you make me sick to be another left-wing German.
Yes, it is, as where the gulags and the US had concentration camps for Japanese people during the Second War to End War (George Takei, the actor of Sulu in Star Trek, lived in one as a kid
Gaza is a lot closer to the Nazi KZs than the Japanese internment camps ever even got close to, the only difference is that the space in Gaza is bigger, and they managed to smuggle stuff in. Israel kept them on a strict water ration (having destroyed the entire native infrastructure decades ago) only “turning on the taps” a few days out of the week, keeping the population on hunger rations, in an open effort to starve the population out, a plan proudly proclaimed as being a moral good by a member of the Israeli government.
Is Israel an apartheid state? To a degree, as is the US
No, it isn’t, and you obviously don’t know jack shit by the rest of that paragraph. Israel is a full on apartheid state, Arab-Israelis are literally not even citizens, many laws specifically single out and directly target said minorities, they are not allowed to use the vast majority of large road networks, they are not allowed to own land in “Jewish areas”, they aren’t allowed into “Jewish areas” unless they have specific reason to be there. the police nationwide has instituted a de-facto curfew for all Arabs to be back in their ghettos, Israeli EMTs will literally strap patients onto the hood of their ambulances, etc…
people aren’t making the comparisons between the behavior of Germans during the Nazi rule, and modern day far-right theocratic ethno-fascist Israel. We see the same dehumanization, the same hate, the same disregard and disgust of the “other”, we see the same actions, the same propaganda (multiple members of the Israeli government have literally used the 14 words), the same Lebensraum, and You, and people like you are so fucking up your own ass about how big strong and bad Germany was (another point many current neo-Nazis will agree on, because if only Germany is capable of this type of evil, it is because they must somehow b a superior “race”), that you will actively repeat Nazi shit, as long as the framing is right. you are proof that the German education system has failed you in regard to learning about the horrors of the Nazi regime, because you are more focused on the picture of the mustache man than what they did.
things aren’t bad because the Nazis did them, the Nazis were bad because of what they did, and if Israel is committing the same atrocities, they are deservedly compared to nazis.
And I still don’t know what the meme is referring to. To October 9th or the genocide in Gaza? Or to Sudan? Why is no one talking about Sudan? (Me included, I know something is going there but don’t ask me what)
tho, you do get one thing correct, you have no fucking clue about anything that goes on in that region.
P.S. please don’t call yourself an anarchist, you’re just another “Anti-D”
I love how you totally ignore what I said and selectively read my comment the way it fits your prejudices. What makes me Anti-D? That I want other states to fall, too? I mean there are anti-D anarchists who want Israel to fall last. I explicitly said that Israel is an especially bad state implying that I want it to fall sooner than later. But what do I know.
To quote Gelderloos again, in case you accept him as an anarchist: “the category of citizen, from the beginning, was intended to be exclusionary, not inclusionary.” Talking about the French revolution, where the bourgeoisie introduced the social contract theory to exclude the lower social strata. Does that make them an apartheid state? No. Are all states apartheid states? No. Is South Africa right to accuse Israel of being one? Yes. Did I generalize to provoke people into realizing that all states are bad? Maybe.
if Israel is committing the same atrocities, they are deservedly compared to nazis.
Where did I say that you can’t compare them?
Did you know that the Lebensraum ideology was inspired by Manifest Destiny, the colonial expansion of the US? But sure, Nazi Germany and Israel are the only states that committed any kind of genocide in history. There are people arguing the US didn’t commit genocide against the indigenous population. I say it’s an ongoing genocide, it never stopped.
you will actively repeat Nazi shit, as long as the framing is right
I was repeating a word they use and pointed out that I used it differently and that disagreeing with this word is also used by Nazis so maybe it matters how we use words.
Way to go shitting all over someone trying to give a nuanced take. You completely lost it here, and for what? For your right (or pleasure) to equate Israelis to Nazis? Well done.
nuanced take? please, there wasn’t a scrap of nuance in that entire post of theirs, it was literally the same holocaust denying shit you see on every conservative news outlet.
In what way do see him denying the holocaust? He does confirm it was a singular event
it wasn’t even considered a singular event until the 70s, where everyone started to forget the other victims, you had the Jewish holocaust, the Romani holocaust, the Slavic holocaust etc… but ironically since most of the world still saw is as fine to be racist to these people, we gladly forgot about these groups. Hence, we are left with the holocaust of the only people to have a larger representative community in the allied powers as being the victims of the holocaust in everyone’s collective minds.
And to be fair, it does sort of piss me off when people go around spreading the myth of the singular holocaust, something that is in its very essence holocaust denial, because you deny many of the differing victims of Nazi brutality and murder, to deny a modern day holocaust.
Then again, try explaining to people that the genocide the Germans perpetrated didn’t start with millions dead, or that it mostly took place outside the camps (misconceptions Nazis also still use to this day, if you ever heard the “cookies” or “pizza” analogy from the far right).
Not fond of meaningless arguments about definitions designed to derail a discussion.
definitions
Ah, right, because words don’t actually mean what they mean. They mean what I feel they should mean. Thank you for reminding me of this, clearly, universal truth. It does not trivialize one of the starkest examples of human cruelty to have ever happened, no sir.
Mind out, people on here literally believe that.
I will never, and I mean this, never care what someone who believes that thinks.
Gtfo with your linguistic prescriptivism, asshole
Most descriptivist will spend hours arguing (not as in disagreeing but as in discussing) which word means what in which context and for which person. Can I use “to argue” in a neutral sense and what about the noun “argument”? Why exactly is this a different story? But not you, you got it right and everyone else got it wrong.
I don’t even know what the meme is trying to say with the holocaust comparison. Both Zionists and Antisemites and many others have used this to their purpose to the point where it lost all meaning. When “the Jews learned evil in Germany” and Israel is “hell on earth” and a nazi state committing holocaust on the Palestinians, and killing one Jew is holocaust and so is abortion, the animal industry and everything in between and beyond, than either the holocaust happened only once – or it has no meaning at all and happens everywhere at once. You decide.
Ok this objection I can abide. Metaphors are inherently ambiguous. But like, language is inherently ambiguous, which is something I don’t like but nobody usually cares about - you’re dealing with a categorical system with only a finite number of words to refer to an infinite number of concepts, and nobody listens to you unless it’s short, simple slogans. So really, there’s no good way to use language at all.
In this context, the point is “the thing happening in Palestine should evoke the same emotional response as the Holocaust and not be ignored simply because the victims aren’t white”, for which there’s no way to evoke the appropriate emotional response without metaphor, which is why I got emotional
Maybe this is a topic that should make us emotional and I even feel your first comment but I’m coming from a different perspective. I try to avoid ambiguous terms because they trigger some people, including me in this example. People say Israel isn’t a white settler colonial state to avoid saying how bad it is. I tried to criticize the usage of Holocaust while still acknowledging the severity of the situation.
164000 (give or take, we can’t know the exact numbers) casualties with something like 70000 fatalities since 1947 in the Israel-Palestine war.
Let’s say that all of these numbers are directly from Israel and that they are all lies. Let’s say that they are, actually, triple - fuck it let’s make it quadruple the amount.
That’s 656000 casualties and 280000 people dead over a 76 year period. The Holocaust was 5 years with 6 million people dead. That’s 42 million (Edit, I’m kinda fucking dumb) people dead. Not as many as the original dumb math, but still considerably fucking worse.
Them comparing what’s happened in Palestine over the past 76 years to what the Nazis did during the Holocaust is not only wildly disingenuous, it shows they have no real concept of just how fucking bad the Holocaust actually was. It is only indicative of their ignorance, they aren’t somehow communicating more clearly despite them having convinced themselves otherwise.
What’s happening in Gaza and Palestine is bad. Awful even, a horrible blemish on humanity until our species dies. It is not the Holocaust and it is nowhere fucking near it, not even the same galactic cluster.
Edit: I wrote this to the person you’re responding to but they’re genuinely dumb so I’m posting it under your comment. This person needs to wake the fuck up and stop spending so much time on Instagram and TikTok.
Edit2: I fixed the dumb bad brain math. It is done.
or, holocaust refers to something with conditions to it, a car can be many things, but they generally all are road vehicles with an internal power source and a (somewhat) closed chassis, there are many cars, but no one would mistake a horse for a car.
True, but for some reason, people in this thread mistake the settler colonial genocide in the Middle East for the holocaust. I’m glad you’re with me! I’m not the only voice of reason anymore.
Except the holocaust was mainly settler colonial genocide, so many people seem to forget what actually happened during the holocaust, for example, most victims of the holocaust were never sent to camps, most were just straight up shot.
It’s just prescriptivism, donkey, the linguistic aspect is implied.
Look up the words you use before you use them, please. Do yourself and me a favor.
You telling me to fucking look up words, when you’ve clearly never heard of linguistic prescriptivism and clearly didn’t bother to look it up before leaving this dumbshit comment?
ChatGPT: Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about pandas
Prescriptivism: n - the belief that there are correct and wrong ways to use language and that books about language should give rules to follow, rather than describing how language is really used
Shh, shh. It’s time to get to bed lil’ dude. You’ve learned so much about context clues today! Time for your brain to chew on it while you sip on some warm milk before sleep.
Edit: I forgot to tell you that you did a great job! I’m sorry, that was probably a pretty stressful wait.
If there’s no holocaust in Gaza, go ahead and fking move there you condescending prick
Hot takes - Judaism is just as bad as every other Abrahamic faith.
Judaism is better in one significant way: they find proselytizing offensive.
I’ve never had a Jew bother me about accepting their religion at a bus stop despite my best efforts to first politely dissuade them, then rudely dismissed their bullshit until I snapped and got outright hostile and offensive.
yeah I used to think it was the relatively chill nerdy less-a-piece-of-vile-genocidal-shit sibling before this, but no. apparently that’s fucking islam, and yes, I did watch the same beheading videos and read about the same FGM shit you did.
Islam Christianity and Judaism all neat to sit down and take a beat for one hot second.
They all have this toxic byproduct which are intransigent zealots who want to punish all the other people in their country who don’t follow their dogma.
I would really rather they not give each other more ideas. I would rather they not sit down for that beer unless I’m the one pouring it, and I get to do so in a place they can’t see, thank you very much.
Is… Is that really a hot take? That’s more like stating the obvious.
Another hot take: Atheism is a religion and is no better than the others LOL
That makes sense if you don’t know what words mean
Atheism is a religion like spectating is a sport. It isn’t.
Atheism is a religion like spectating is a sport. It isn’t.
That’s just your belief.
Belief isn’t religion. I also believe you’re being intentionally obtuse about this. That’s also just a belief and not a religion. Rhetorical question: do you believe the world is round? Would you call that a religion?
Rhetorical question: do you believe the world is round? Would you call that a religion?
Yeah, we have photos of the world. This is a physical thing. The existence of God is a metaphysical kind of thing, so any stance on this (whether belief in existence OR non-existence) is a religious belief.
Like most religious people, atheists believe that being a part of their religious group makes them special. But atheists tend to take it to a further degree than most religions to the point they believe they are above other religions and refuse to call themselves a religion. But atheism is a religion, it’s just part of your belief system that it isn’t. If it weren’t you would be more like “I guess we should agree to disagree” rather than acting like I’ve committed blasphemy by saying atheism is a religion.
The existence of God is a metaphysical kind of thing, so any stance on this (whether belief in existence OR non-existence) is a religious belief.
See, that’s where I disagree. I’m an atheist and I don’t believe or claim to know that there is no god. I don’t believe that there isn’t a god at all. All I believe is that there’s no sufficient proof at this time that there positively is a god. Much less a god that demands certain behaviours/rituals, diets and dress codes and whatnot. You can’t prove a negative after all.
acting like I’ve committed blasphemy by saying atheism is a religion.
I never did this, though. We’re just talking as far as I’m aware, I’m not offended by your stance in the slightest, I just took your first comment as an invitation to discuss this matter.
I very much agree with you that many atheists take their belief too far. Any atheist that claims to know there is 100% certainly no god is taking their belief to dogmatic and religious belief levels. Since you can’t prove a negative we’ll never have proof that there’s no god in the same way we’ll never have proof that there’s no flying spaghetti monster. I don’t think the existence of a god or a flying spaghetti monster has been demonstrated sufficiently for me to adopt that belief. To me it seems an unnecessary (indeed metaphysical) invention to explain physical phenomena that have already been explained with physical evidence. And that leads me to being an atheist. For all intents and purposes there is no god until there is proof that there is. Excuse me for yet another metaphor, but I hope to explain my way of thinking better through an example: I also believe there’s no dogshit under my shoe until I can smell, see or otherwise detect it. Unless that’s the case I’m going to act as if my shoes are clean but that’s different than me saying there’s no shit under my shoe and there never will be. The former is a working hypothesis that can change depending on circumstances and the latter is holding on to a belief no matter what (religiously, one might say).
You identify as an atheist. Atheism is a group with common beliefs. There are common expressions like “You can’t prove a negative” that atheists recite similar to how religious people will cite scripture.
Many atheists will purchase books from people like Richard Dawkins. Are those books just empty pages? Nope, it’s full of guidance from someone who fulfills a similar role to that of a priest in a religion.
Things like “flying spaghetti monster” is joke atheists share that’s based around denigrating other religions. People who are zealous in their religion are often intolerant towards people with other beliefs.
Really atheism has all the properties of a religion. The only difference is that atheists claim that atheism is not a religion. Which is a belief, not objective fact. And there are other religions that claim not to be a religion but more of a “way of life”.
The bottom line is that you’ve found some significance to there not being scientific proof of something metaphysical which by definition can’t be proven. So significant that you take on atheist as an identity.
But it’s all just your belief. Scientifically speaking, we know there are some things that can never be proven, see the Halting Problem. The beliefs of atheists are consistent with scientific thought from a century ago, beliefs that have been disproven. But like most religions old ideas are clung to despite any evidence to the contrary because your beliefs are connected to your identity. A Christian can’t question the resurrection of Christ because if they did they wouldn’t be a Christian. Similarly an Atheist can’t question the capability of science to prove everything because then they wouldn’t be an atheist.
Religion is like that, it gets you stuck in a thought pattern you can’t question.
The holocaust is happening again at the hands of the first victims?
Tale as old as time.
It’s called “dibs”
What exactly do you mean by “first victims”?
Asking, because my paternal ancestors happen to be Armenian from Khodorchur of Dayq province.
But that’s the cause only of my irritation, while the weird feeling from reading your comment is because mass murders of whole peoples are not anything new in human history. It’s just that Germany lost so conclusively in WWII that the winning powers decided to make it a crime - when judging Germany. Not Belgium, not UK, not France, not USA and USSR, of course, because these all had crimes of that kind on their sufficiently recent record.
One can speculate that Jewish holocaust made Europeans feel bad because it happened to rather European people. Or because it was committed by the losing side.
Or maybe, as with Baudrillard’s simulacra, all Westerners care is what’s portrayed as the evil of the day and the good of the day in their media. It’s a kind of entertainment, and they don’t care what the world really is.
all of those are a bit true. laws are for enforcing power, not justice, not morality. always, every time. the powerful will always have a need to kill if they want to remain powerful, and don’t love having their hands tied (except in private; they’re all subs, it’s so weird).
but yes, until jews were white, nobody gave toooo terribly many shits.
and yeah, most people just care about simple bullshit narratives. that’s what liberalism and fascism are.
“The holocaust” is unfortunate phrasing. “The” holocaust was not the first or only since.
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queer people?
because the first victims of the holocaust were queer people. stop writing us out of your fucking history for the sake of zionist propaganda.
I love how you all make a point of playing the victim and making it all about you when you are not even part of the discourse. Queers are the new vegans, apparently.
google “nazi book burning” find the photo you think of when you hear/read that phrase, then look at the context for that photo, what books were being burned, where, and why. please don’t reply until you have.
Unlike your stupid country, we study history. You were not the FIRST victims, you were among them. Doesn’t mean you can make it all about you. My god that’s why some people can’t stand your fucking politicised community.
wow, a zionist AND a homophobe. I’m… what’s the name for a feeling that means the opposite of shocked but is far far more unpleasant?
Yeah this nicely summarises the level of understanding of American internet teenagers about the Middle East.
I would hope at least this much, but ideally more. It probably depends on the American teenager though.
I’m saying it’s dumb and wrong
I’m saying the mischaracterization of the meme as juvenile is incorrect as the meme contains the minimum information everyone should know.
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Palestine will be free
One can hope
Lol and that’s why it’s bullshit, because nothing is “super simple”, you bunch of terminally online twats. You wouldn’t know nuance if it reached out of your Instagram post and slapped you in the face. Go ahead, tell me to eat glass like last time.
everything is complicated, it’s true. drinking water is super complicated. if you try to just drink straight h20 you will strip your body of electrolytes and shit will become very unpleasant. don’t get me started on colors. we don’t even know what colors ARE.
but there are subjects where the simple understanding is EXTREMELY functional, and will rarely lead you TOO far astray. like ‘drink water, preferably clean water’. if you dont do this you die.
similarly: genocide bad. rape bad. rapists bad. genocideers bad. if you don’t do this, LOTS of people die, and its partially on you.
yes, there is a more complex nuanced understanding (which IMO makes the palestinians look better and the zionists look orders of magnitude worse than the nation of shiro ishi clones they appear to be from the surface), but the simple one effectively functions for nearly any intent or purpose, and if you’re not doing therapy for a palestinian person, or trying to decide what treatment would be appropriate for a zionist if it was capable of just stopping/surrendering (which it is not, there’s only one way to stop this after letting it get this far, and we should do it before more innocents die), you really don’t need more than the simplest “genocide bad, rape bad, murdering children bad” that a literal child could understand.
eat glass pweeease owo
It’s all nuance until you start criticizing a politician’s stance on the matter. Then it’s we don’t have room for nuance because:
- You will let the fascists win
- We are too constrained to do anything
- There are two choices in the United States 2024 election. No third party stands a ghost of a chance of winning. No, not even if the 30,000 people you can reach on Lemmy all vote for Timothy Greenparty.
- A Trump victory in 2024 would not only be just as bad if not worse for the citizens of Gaza than Harris would, but also pose an existential threat to a large number of vulnerable Americans (trans people, immigrants, women seeking abortions).
- Given the margins of victory in 2016 and 2020, Kamala might not win if leftists don’t vote for her.
- Snoozing fascism for four years is better than inviting it through the door now, and buys us time to build our defenses for when it comes back.
I’d like to focus my counterargument. Which of these statements do you disagree with?
I disagree that critiquing Kamala automatically makes me a 3rd party voter. I’m vote blue no matter who, but I can see that explaining the trolley problem isn’t working at the moment.
Perfect.
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