Just came across a post on Reddit asking about cars, thought I’d ask here too.
The article the reddit post cited was: https://www.thankyourobot.com/2023/07/on-road-to-privacy-invasion-unmasking.html
In short, if I’m in the market to purchase a new car, which one should I go for to improve privacy? And if we assume that such a thing is not possible anymore, what can we do for our (newer) cars to be more private? I was considering things like removing the radio antenna (if I can, that depends on the model of the car).
I’m also interested in knowing just how would car companies mine information from a car if I haven’t connected my mobile to it? Do cars have SIMs inside them that have free 4G/5G access and can send information that way? How would I check if my car is doing something like this?
Thanks!
Many modern cars do have their own gps or cellular network for things like remote access/control. Some higher end cars also phone home with maintenance information that can help service managers and techs preemptively reach out for services. The only possible way to avoid that would be to stick to lower trim budget brands/models, but even then it’s hard for to avoid entirely.
I do plan to stick to budget cars. I’m looking at the Toyota Corolla as a prospective example, and am trying to figure out the easiest way to detach the antenna without damaging the car.
Honestly, I’m not sure how much you will achieve by removing the antenna. Especially when you use a cell phone and computer. What is it about car manufacturers that you are trying to hide from?
That sounds like a slippery slope. Your argument could be used each time a different device adds tracking until you’re saying “why disable your underwear tracking device, when you already use a phone and a car?”.
Plus, if you care about privacy, you can always use a Linux PC 99% of the time and a de-googled Android 99% of the time.
MORE data collection is never good, wanted or needed.
Wasn’t intending to invalidate OP wanting privacy, I just don’t think that removing the antenna will do what they want.
Your argument is purposefully obtuse tho, lol. Underwear tracking… lol.
I could limit tracking with Custom ROMs and Faraday bags for my portable devices. What can I do about a car?
Very fair, I didn’t mean to invalidate what your trying to do. You could definitely remove the antenna and depending on the car maybe it will alleviate some tracking, that would probably depend on the car. Many modern cars don’t even have antennas and you may need yo go closer to the head unit and may even need to replace it.
Easiest by far is just an older car with no wireless capabilities whatsoever.
I hear tell its possible to find the wireless antennas and physically remove them from certain models. If you’re buying brand new, try to find a dealer that let’s you not have any wireless capabilities. No idea if that’s still possible these days…
Very old cars don’t have great fuel efficiency which would be my reason to not go for them, although that depends on how much I will drive going forward (life is in a bit of flux). The problem is that I know nothing about cars and repairing them
You don’t have to go back to the 60s with 4-cylinder vehicles that get 15 MPG lol. Pick up a late 90s early 00s Corolla.
Another problem is that even when the car doesn’t have any wireless features, they often have an “emergency sim card”
Buy a bicycle or electric bicycle.
Thank you. I do plan to own a cycle later on when I (hopefully) move to a place where cycling is a better experience. I will aim to use a cycle almost exclusively when traveling close, but something are A LOT easier with a car.
I’m not sure who would’ve downvoted you there, but yeah I live in an already car dominated city with 90+ degree humid weather for months straight. I DO have a bycicle but it’s just not a feasible form of travel for me.
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buy an used car
I know nothing of car repairs (I find it intimidating), and mechanics charge a lot for (what would seem to be me to be) fairly small repairs. I don’t even know if I’m being overcharged or if what they are asking for is the right amount for the repair. That’s why I’d like to go for cars with warranties, although I guess I can get that with used cars too. But cars after 2015 or so have the same problems as the cars now with respect to privacy, which would defeat the point
Rollerblades or skates. Absolutely no surveillance/tracking (except for the external shit that no one can get away from) and you build a fantastic ass!
Oh, I could just cycle (I love cycling assuming the weather isn’t too hot or wet)
and you build a fantastic ass!
Would this not end up creating a completely different surveillance issue though? 😅
Fantastic ass. Such an important argument!
Guides to disable cellular modules in modern cars would be nice
Opel cars for sure do it. And probably most cars do it now a days. If you have a button to call emergency services then for sure it has a sim. But hard to tell if it sends info to the company or not. Personally I dont see any reason to buy any NEW car. Cars with a few years are way cheaper and you get almost the same, problem with new cars is that it losses a lot of value the moment y ou sign. But I would try japansese cars, toyota or honda are good.
Hi, thanks, I do plan to stick to Japanese brands for this one. I do see your point, it’s just I know nothing about cars and would have no idea how to do repairs if it broke down. I’d like to find cars with warranties so I don’t have to deal with the repairs as much.
Do cars have SIMs inside them that have free 4G/5G access and can send information that way?
Yes, most modern cars do. At the very least those with Infotainment systems. They pull updates and traffic data that way (and a bunch more).
I know we are in a privacy community here, but i personally would question what you are trying to do here. Don’t get me wrong. Staying away from Tesla and other Companies that are trying to sell heated Seats as a Service with a subscription to wipers or such is certainly a great idea. But beyond that, i don’t think there’s too much to worry about. My 2022 Kia Ceed has a build in Infotainment system and some sort of internet connectivity. And if Kia wanted to, they probably could track where i drive. But at the point where you are carrying a phone, i’d worry much more about that than about my car. Ripping out Radio antennas probably doesn’t do a whole lot. And depending on where you live, emergency location information provided by the car might be mandated by law. Skipping infotainment systems also might not help. Most manufacturers build more or less one trim level and enable/disable features you pay for. They might not bolt the display in, but the Computer behind it is probably still there to some extend.
At least in the case of Kia i haven’t found anything in their privacy statement that suggests they are collecting data from the car beyond what they read out when you bring it in for service. I’m no lawyer and am not sure if they have different privacy policies depending on the country you’re in, but it’s good enough for me.
Do cars have SIMs inside them that have free 4G/5G access and can send information that way?
Yes, sadly, this has been commonplace for decades.
When (if) I eventually buy another car, I expect there will be few options without preinstalled spyware. If I can’t find one that I like, I plan to look for models that enthusiasts have already hacked to disable all that stuff, and use their experience as a guide.
I hope someone will post some examples here. Good luck!
When you get a car at a dealership, you could always ask them to take out the router. They may try to convince you otherwise, but don’t listen. As for me, I drive a late 2000s car so I don’t have to worry about that for now.
2014 or older without sync 3, OnStar, etc. Anything newer WILL have a cellular module. Also, check the service manuals and see if there is a cellular module even in older cars or any module with a cellular component ( like the wireless entry module , satellite radio module, etc.). If the car has a remote unlock, locator, or start that works as a phone app or any of those options then your gonna be tracked.
I used to have 2021 Toyota Rav4 with the emegency service button. It does have 4g modem for that.
The modem and emegency service stuff is on a dedicated breaker that you can pull out. It will show a warning light on dash, but I don’t think it breakes anything else.
