Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders have applauded the US for passing a vital €89 billion aid bill which has been struggling to make it through the House of Representatives for months.
The House swiftly approved roughly €89 billion in foreign aid for Ukraine, Israel and other US allies in a rare Saturday session as Democrats and Republicans banded together after months of hard-right resistance over renewed American support for repelling Russia’s invasion.
With an overwhelming vote, €57 billion in aid for Ukraine passed in a matter of minutes, a strong showing as American lawmakers race to deliver a fresh round of US support to the war-torn ally. Many Democrats cheered on the House floor and waved blue-and-yellow flags of Ukraine.
He doesn’t need to thank us, he deserves our thanks for fighting against fascism. Some of the best money the US has ever spent. Now, redirect all money from Israel to Ukraine.
Seriously, even if Israel wasn’t evil, it could still quite easily do whatever it’s doing by itself. Even if it wasn’t evil, it doesn’t need help doing what it does.
Yet here we are.
Well, it’s just being polite.
Exactly. And showing he doesn’t feel entitled to help, and actually appreciates it greatly.
he deserves our thanks for fighting against fascism
Its 1980 again and my man is the Saddam Hussein of the 21st Century.
0/10
I see a Republican shaking hands with a dictator. Exactly like the Butcher Putin appeasers now.
They posted a picture of Obama and Clinton. They aren’t Republicans
Rofl… Are you at least paid for this shit? Cause if not… Imagine being so fucking dumb that you actually believe that shit and on top of that, instead of preaching somewhere where you’ve got a chance, you stay on Lemmy. It’s so fucking sad, man… can’t you see it? You’re trying to sell meat to a bunch of vegans, it’s hilarious.
Imagine being so fucking dumb that you actually believe that shit
So stupid you’re familiar with US history prior to 1991?
If you think the Saddam story is unbelievable, wait till you learn about Noriega.
It’s so fucking sad, man… can’t you see it?
Why do folks who want to sound incredulous just sound like they’re high as fuck?
If you think the Saddam story is unbelievable, wait till you learn about Noriega.
Yes we are all well aware that Republicans have a long history of appeasing dictators. Same as now.
Republicans have a long history of appeasing dictators
Not just Republicans…
The flood of weapons going into Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan is going to fuel the same kinds of conflicts that arms sold to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Jordan fueled 40 years ago.
When the building conflict between Poland and Ukraine goes hot…
When some of the enormous third-party arms market ramped up in these countries spills into neighboring Egypt and Turkey…
When someone with a MANPADS and nefarious intent gets within striking distance of a civilian airport…
Shit is going to pop off in a way folks just watching TV and clapping for their favorite team simply aren’t prepared for.
You’re correct about the missteps of US foreign policy.
But your argument is a nonstarter because the people you’re talking about were literal dictators in authoritarian systems.
Ukraine is literally fighting to engage with the liberal West, over authoritarian East, against a foreign aggressor. And it’s done a very good job of keeping and even improving its democratic institutions through this war (I’m referring more to transparency of laws and changes to how corruption is dealt with, specifically).
the people you’re talking about were literal dictators in authoritarian systems
We’re heading dick first into the meat grinder of another Trump administration. And that’s nationally. Nevermind all the tinpot governors we’ve got running around the Gulf Coast and Midwest. What do you think happens when they’re back in charge of the national military again?
That’s before we get into the finer points of “authoritarianism” when you’re funding a proxy war overseas by rubber stamping a government takeover of a social media company at home.
Ukraine is literally fighting to engage with the liberal West, over authoritarian East, against a foreign aggressor. And it’s done a very good job of keeping and even improving its democratic institutions through this war
They’re in a turf war over the Donbas. But the deadline for elections in the Ukraine was constitutionally mandated for March 31st of 2024. We’re three weeks past that with no plans for a vote in sight. I would say Ukraine is officially off the board as a “liberal democracy”, at least as long as martial law lasts. And with the new arms shipment looking to close off the possibility of a ceasefire, that suggests elections are postponed indefinitely.
Why do folks who want to sound incredulous just sound like they’re high as fuck?
That’d be your inner narrative embellishing fucking reality with filigree and lace to fit your shit-ass perspective.
Jim Jefferies said it best: “That’s the problem with crazy people; they don’t know they’re crazy”. Way to illustrate his insightful point by telling us you hear our voices in your head, dumbass.
That’d be your inner narrative
Sure thing, Cheech.
Next, you’ll misinterpret 1984 to describe this as a “we were always at war with Oceania” moment".
Its 1980 again and my man is the Saddam Hussein of the 21st Century.
Yes we know Butcher Putin is your man. And yes he is a lot like that other tyrant dictator.
Yes we know Butcher Putin is your man.
Me and my close friend, Vladdy Daddy.
Lol, couldn’t even find a picture where they smiled or even looked at one another.
Sigh, the simpler times of 2012, the neoliberals really thought they’d won that one, that Russia would stop simping for dictators, start drinking democracy juice, and focus on exploiting labor instead of conquering it.
The republican traitor filth should be sent to the front, to fight for their motherland.
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Cry harder that the Soviet Union collapsed and left the majority of Russian males a bunch of hopeless drunks obeying a piece of shit dictator like Putin. Cry harder that Ukraine resisted an unwarranted invasion based on fear of Russia’s continually waning power. Cry harder that Wagner almost kicked Putin’s ass and caused the Kremlin to have to backtrack.
When I say “fuck Russian scum”, there are plenty of good hearted Russians, but the scum, fuck them. Putin is scum, btw, a piece of shit goat-fucking wannabe removed.
the Soviet Union collapsed and left the majority of Russian males a bunch of hopeless drunks obeying a piece of shit dictator like Putin
If that’s true, then aren’t they victims of the lottery of birth who deserve our compassion and pity? There but for the grace of God go you or I; we could have easily been born in Russia instead of here - and would be suffering the consequences accordingly
Putin’s actions are a seperate issue. But the common Russians are largely blameless for the actions of their country
If that’s true, then aren’t they victims of the lottery of birth who deserve our compassion and pity?
Did I say they don’t deserve compassion or pity? Deserving of it they may be, that alone might be even more insulting to them than what I said. One thing that didn’t change from Soviet era is that everyone must follow the political platform with a figurative gun to their head. It’s ok to say that the Russian invasion is wrong, and the US’s missiles and tanks will be blasting servicemen to bits who do not deserve to be blown to bits, but they will be violently killed, as it is a war.
Asking them nicely to stop invading isn’t going to work.
Oh geez…you’re spending way too much time on Lemmy/Reddit…Republicans are all in favor of helping Ukraine, they’re just more careful about sending billions and billions and it becomes an endless money pit…that shit happens all the time, and the Republicans are the “traitors” for questioning why and where all the money is being sent. If it was up to Democrats, there’d be NO questions… just send money!
I didn’t see them pinching the pennies when they were trying to build pointless their 2000 mile border wall
“The United States needs to stop getting involved in everyone else’s business” - Sincerely, The World
“The United States needs to do more to get involved in everyone else’s business” - Sincerely, The World
I swear… if it’s not a war that’s supported by the Left, than we’re all traitors for questioning the finances behind it…
Dont lump democrats in with the left, we see them as right wing
Why are you being down voted? Is this place becoming an I support the current thing place too?
Yes, it’s Reddit 2.0: “This is a Liberal/Democrat site ONLY!”
Anybody who will actually take the time to read your comment by this point knows you’re full of shit. Republicans aren’t the party of fiscal responsibility. The only situation in which they actually care about saving money is if it saves money for their 1% handlers.
So, there should NO questioning funds that are sent all over the world? The US should just say “here, take whatever you want!”
Who cares what Russia says? They’re also claiming Ukraine is rightfully there’s…the point is to make sure the funds are doing what they’re supposed too. If both sides just say “here, take whatever you want!” what good is that? It’s about checks and balances, we don’t want this to turn into another Vietnam…
Get back to servicing putin’s dick.
Hey man, I’m all in favor in helping Ukraine, I think we should absolutely do what we need to do…as do most Republicans. However, if history has taught us anything, it’s also that we cannot be an endless money pit for European affairs. I have no issues giving Ukraine money, but I think it’s always a good thing to question everything.
I’m genuinely thankful you’ve made it this obvious how much of a fucking moron you are as I can block you immediately and get on with my day.
Let me guess, only left politics and democrats are your happy place? God forbid anyone disagrees…
The republican traitor filth should be sent to the front
Its curious to see someone propose that the punishment for opposing a war is to fight in it. But the reward for supporting the war is to profit from it.
Its curious to see someone propose that the punishment for opposing a war is to fight in it.
Isn’t that literally the Russian policy?
I think the Russian policy is to conscript anyone currently in jail. But the Russian Federation has one of the highest prison populations in the world (475 per 100,000). The lion’s share of that population is guilty of petty theft, illegal drug use/sales, and vagrancy/illegal encampment.
The US gave up on this conscription strategy after the Vietnam War, when a bunch of minority community groups like the Black Panthers and the Raza Unida Party started cropping up.
I can’t find what I was talking about now, but I’m sure there were reports about mobilisation being used as a punishment for speaking out against the “special military operation”.
There’s definitely instances of Russian political dissidents being thrown in jail. And from there, they’d get sucked up into the jail-to-combat pipeline.
This isn’t strictly unusual for government agencies. The California state fire patrol is composed largely of prison labor. But training dissidents and vagrants in the art of war carries its own basket of problems. It only works if you do the Iran-Iraq War trick and have your dissidents-turned-soldiers in the worst possible conditions (in that case, Iranian Revolution student protesters were turned into shock troops expected to run across Iraqi mine fields).
In the current state of the Ukraine-Russia War, its the Russians hiding behind the mine fields and the Ukrainians charging across them. But I’m more than confident that there’s some other low-skill high-lethality job for them to do. Maybe playing “The Most Dangerous Game” against Ukrainian drones, so Russian anti-drone units can target and shoot them down.
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The USA stopped using conscription because Vietnam was unpopular with everyone
The US stopped using conscription in January of 1973, two months before the last helicopters exited Vietnam. The major protests against Vietnam had largely fizzled out by the late 60s, as the war was primarily an air war focused on bombing and gassing Vietnamese dissidents into submission. And, if you’re truly familiar with your US history, you’ll know that this is when the popularization of the POW/MIA came to fruition thanks to the John Birch Society and Ross Perot.
But Nixon’s decision in '71 to end conscription was more to do with the success of the Civil Rights Movement in galvanizing former WW2, Korea, and Vietnam Veterans to its cause, when Nixon’s goal was to recast these dissidents as criminals and drug addicts. As the economy stalled out under his presidency, military enlistment was actually on the rise and conscription served no real purpose.
Conscription is still a thing in the USA, it just hasn’t been used since Vietnam.
Registration is still a thing, although even then there’s been a number of big fights over how one’s gender and sexual orientation would affect enlistment.
But conscription, as a policy, has been abandoned as the military has relied increasingly on its officer’s corpse and private contractor base to manage military operations. The political gains to an expanded MIC plus the liabilities of an armed and organized working class mean it no longer has a place in the model we use for conducting invasions and occupations.
Fuck off with this disingenuous horseshit. They’re not opposed to this war. They’re opposed to helping the resistance to Russia’s imperialism, because they’re russian puppets.
If this war is so important to you, why are you not over there right now fighting instead of a conscripted Ukrainian?
Get back to servicing putin’s schlong, traitor.
Oh wow, what a unique insult…
It’s bullshit that they’re being thanked for table scraps that the children had to slap fight over how many scraps are allowed…
Of course anything other than 100% gratitude would be touted by the shittier child for the rest of their life regardless of whether the scraps ended off starvation or not.
My metaphor got a little weird but what the fuck.
While true that the timing is shit, the amount is nowhere close to “table scraps” - this seems like it will legit be helpful, maybe even enough to turn the tide in Ukraine?
Also, it’s not like Congress fed its own and then waited months to feed the dog - rather, dinner for the entire family was delayed from the start of the fiscal year 2024 in October 1 until just a few weeks ago, involving the ousting of one Speaker of the House and almost doing so to the second as well. And now, this aid package for Ukraine may likewise finish the job of getting the Speaker kicked out, bc any time the government is “functional” is considered bad by some elements.
But the timing from passing the federal budget itself to passing this aid package is actually quite short. Yes it’s half a year late, but it did eventually happen, and the amount of aid is large, so is a “success” by multiple metrics, and all the more so given the opposition. If we do end up having a civil war as people like MTG are calling for, this may well be the last aid package that the USA ever manages to pass in the final stages of its democracy.
So imho we should take the win and be happy - we may not get to celebrate Congress doing routine activities like “passing budgets” very often in the future, even six months late.
How much money do you think Ukraine is entitled? After this influx of “scraps”, the USA has contributed more in total dollars than the rest of the world combined. Here is a good source, keep in mind this data is from February and doesn’t include the latest funding: https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
All of it. I want the AFU to have so much US-supplied ordinance that it makes Helldivers look prophetic
the USA has contributed more in total dollars than the rest of the world combined
This is incorrect.
Here’s another link that doesn’t include billions more from other EU countries since January.
Also European money is overwhelmingly being sent as cash. US aid is overwhelmingly spent inside the US.
This graph is only good through February as well and doesn’t include the latest aide packages from the US and EU. I found that the EU added another 50 billion euros in feb and the US another 57 just now. So I’ll adjust my statement, the US has given as much as the EU. The spirit of my original comment still remains. Why all the hate on here for a very generous aide package?
No hate here. I’m delighted it’s coming. I think there’s a lot of frustration with the lives and ground lost over political wrangling.
You’re right. Block all the funding. Wait, what will you do when China goes after Taiwan? And Russia goes after Poland and Scandinavia? There is historical precedent for your type of lunacy. Hitler was just going to stop with Poland, right?
You’re jumping to conclusions, I actually support the aide packages. What I don’t support is an attitude of entitlement and calling what is a very generous aide package “scraps.” Yes it came later than what would be ideal, but it came and will help.
We literally spent many trillions of dollars keeping the Kremlin in check during the Cold War. Helping Ukraine now is a marvelous bargain for us that will save us a far greater amount of money later.
Hey, Republicans, do y’all remember Red Dawn? Those two movies you made about The USSR and Russia being the ultimate evil enemy that was going to invade and must be stopped? You do? Good.
My real question is, why in the name of all that is Murican, ARE YOU ACTIVELY HELPING RUSSIA WITH THEIR ILLEGAL AND UNPROVOKED INVASION‽‽‽
“Red Dawn” is the most compelling reminder here…?
I know several conservatives that swore that movie was a very probable scenario in the 80s-00s. AFAIK they’ve all left the party.
I just figured instead of a mildly popular cold war era fictional book/movie, a better reminder would be the, you know, cold war.
Well if “several conseravtives” believed it…
Republicans are not helping anyone, you’re spending too much time on here buddy. Republicans simply want accountability for the aid. They ask questions, because if it was up to the Democrats, they’d just send, send, send…
Well, you’re half right…
“Republicans are not helping anyone”
They’re helping me. I’ve worked my ass off for what I have in life…it seems to me that the only party that continues to have their hands out are Democrats.
Sorry we’re late, we let the stupid people plan things and… you know.
Any way to give Ukraine 2-4 years worth of stuff at a time?
Not at the rate they use it up. The Ukraine military budget has historically been measured in billions ($4-5B/annually going back to the end of the USSR). We’ve been giving them traunches of aid in the $50-100B range for the last three years. And that’s not including the logistical support we’ve provided out of the Pentagon’s baseline budget.
2-4 years of Ukraine aid at the current scale would be on the order of trillions of dollars. That’s what we’re spending to play tag in Bakhmut at the cost of hundreds of lives a month. Not even what it would cost to “win” back the Donbas (or what would be left of it) in its entirety. Never even mind Crimea.
What would be the end goal other than waste all of our money to get more people dead?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders have applauded the US for passing a vital €89 billion aid bill which has been struggling to make it through the House of Representatives for months.
The House swiftly approved roughly €89 billion in foreign aid for Ukraine, Israel and other US allies in a rare Saturday session as Democrats and Republicans banded together after months of hard-right resistance over renewed American support for repelling Russia’s invasion.
With an overwhelming vote, €57 billion in aid for Ukraine passed in a matter of minutes, a strong showing as American lawmakers race to deliver a fresh round of US support to the war-torn ally.
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine said he was “grateful” to both parties in the House and “personally Speaker Mike Johnson for the decision that keeps history on the right track,” he said on X, formerly Twitter.
EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said "Ukraine deserves all the support it can get against Russia.
Russian Foreign Minister spokeswoman Mariya Zakharova said “US military aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan will exacerbate global crises: aid to the Kiev regime is a direct sponsorship of terrorist activities; to Taiwan - an interference in China’s internal affairs; to Israel - a direct road to escalation in the region”.
The original article contains 351 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 39%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Republicans are not against aid, and they ARE NOT in bed with the Russians. This is just ignorant talk by people on Lemmy and Reddit. Republicans want accountability about all the money that is being sent all over the fucking place. If it was up to Democrats, they’d just send, send, send…no questions asked. Keep in mind that Ukraine was once considered one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, so yea, let’s just keep sending them billions and billions without making sure the money is actually being used for what it’s supposed too…
Hey, no problem Big Z, I didn’t need healthcare, schools, or infrastructure anyways :)
1: Unlike some nations, we can do both if we want to.
2: They weren’t going to do those regardless, because our oligarchy doesn’t want to.
Damn, the united states sucks lmao
🦜🇱🇷
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Bad move. The smart thing to do would be to say “No backsies” just in case this election goes tits up.
What?
If Trump wins he might fuck around with the aid for personal political gain as he did during his presidency. I guess people already forgot when Trump was essentially was asking Zelensky to investigate Biden in exchange for aid.
I am amazed at the downvotes this comment (and the one child comment that got the joke got)… In November there’s a chance Trump is elected and when he comes into office it’s likely he arbitrarily holds up any aide that hasn’t already been sent.
Yeah, I legit don’t get it. It’s a funny joke that makes a good point.
Looool
Now he can afford the higher quality coke again
As an anticolonialist, shouldn’t you oppose Russian attempts to colonize Ukraine?
No, silly, only America does colonialism /s.
Who here is defending Russia?
As if Ukraine was at some point NOT a colony of Russia…
Hasn’t been since July 16, 1990 when Ukraine became independent by democratic vote of 355 in favour and 4 against.
Crimea river…
This implies that Belarus is also not a colony of Russia. Do better.
Belarus is not a colony of Russia. It’s an independent nation, and has been for the last 33 years. Read a history book before spouting nonsense you ruski bootlicker. https://history.state.gov/countries/belarus
Tell that to a million of Belarusians who were persecuted and exiled for opposing Russian puppet at the head of state.
You must be fucking kidding me. How far up your ass your head is, if out of all sources you chose the US’s department of state?
Now Putin’s Evil Empire will be fucked.
Mister Coke-Connoisseur, I have to inform you that he actually fights to defend his people. He doesn’t sit around in Moscow taking phone calls for updates about an unjust invasion like that fuckwit Putin.
While making speeches glassy eyed and coked up
Did Zelensky really think the US wouldn’t take another chance to play war games? Nah, we like instability too much. Can’t have Russia gaining too much power/resources now. Sorry we’re late, as usual.
“half” of the political interest in this nation would have preferred to not give Ukraine a penny and allow Russia to take what they want.
Right now there is a very real risk that the USA will stop coming to their aid. I am ASHAMED as a US citizen that right now we’re hemming and hawing about getting involved.
My entire fucking life has been war on foreign soil and NOW when we have a chance to be the honest to god fucking good guys and half of the nation would rather restrict human rights then defend them, it’s sickening.
I feel this, it pisses me off so much. The scumbags are jingoistic as fuck up until the conflict is an ANTI-imperialist one.
the conflict is an ANTI-imperialist one
The conflict has become a litmus test on the left for if someone is actually anti imperialist, or if they just dislike the West
Preach. Those people drive me up the fucking wall. And especially since their idea of praxis is being a dick on the internet and not voting, then claim to be the only true leftists.
Yeah, they’ll say the system can’t be used to fix the system and we need a violent revolution, but they ignore how all the previous leftists successfully made good changes to the system. Civil rights, women’s suffrage, gay rights, workers rights – they were all accomplished through voting and the first amendment.
Yeah. It can be simultaneously true that voting is a fundamentally broken system that will only allow for so much change, and that elections have life-or-death consequences. It can also be simultaneously true that both the parties are terrible, and that the Democrats are less bad.
I would give them more credit if they ever did any organizing, or even talked about organizing, but it’s just crabs in a bucket.
Oh, and in another thread, they were complaining about “theft.” It was the seizure of Russian assets to fund the defense of Ukraine. They were defending the foreign bank accounts of billionaires. Real clown shit.
The war is already happening regardless of what the us does. Would you rather we just sit back and let Russia destroy ukraine?
Lots of hate for how the US does business here. But of course I want them to help Ukraine in the end. Doesn’t make all of their politics right. It’s all a big game and if you don’t believe that you’re sadly naive. Our politicians are addicted to the game of chess, it’s not just the power.
Apparently my main point is getting buried. I agree.
That image is very likely to be fake, btw.
I’m American, and can say it’s likely real. There were strong calls for isolationism after WWI. The US waited over two years to join the allies in WWII. It’s important to know of our government’s failures as well as successes, or we face repetition.
The Holocaust Memorial Museum disagrees.
Then the museum is wrong. WWII began September 1, 1939, when Germany invaded Poland. The US entered in response to the bombing of Pearl Harbor which occurred on December 7, 1941, over two years later.
Prove it.
Zelenskyy thanks US for opportunity to kill some tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians more, as well as pocket a few billion dollars for himself and his friends.
Yeah, let Russia walz right through Ukraine and then Moldova - what could possibly go wrong! Apart from that, Russia is the one loosing hundreds of thousands soldiers. The difference in the way Ukraine mourns their lost ones is such, that calling Russia “Civilized” in any way is just a blatant lie. Russia is utterly disgusting.
The difference in the way Ukraine mourns their lost ones is such
The fuck you’re saying, man? Have some conscience, don’t say shit like that
that calling Russia “Civilized” in any way is just a blatant lie
It’s not the Russian soldiers who pick up the phones off enemy soldiers to humiliate and blackmail their relatives and wives(or widows). It’s not Russians who are breaking into every single Ukrainian public conversation to remind everyone that they do, in fact, celebrate deaths of innocent people. This is something that is unfortunately rather common among Ukrainians, and something that I’ve witnessed first hand on multiple occasions.
Yeah, let Russia walz right through Ukraine and then Moldova - what could possibly go wrong!
You know that Zelensky is the one that is not willing to negotiate and just wants to murder as many people as he can?
For a war to end there needs to be a negotiation (with some quite rare exceptions of totally conquering another country or stalemates like in Koreas), and Russia is constantly saying (even when it’s winning) that it is willing to negotiate and end the war, in contrast to Zelensky.
How hypocritical do you have to be, to be on the side of those who are not willing to negotiate and continuing the war despite everything, and yet accuse the other side of wanting to conquer the world?Putin has started the war and can end it at any time he pleases by removing his forces from the occupied regions of Ukraine.
The hypocrisy here just reached a new height.
The comment by another guy here says
Apart from that, Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms
And you say
Putin has started the war and can end it at any time he pleases by removing his forces from the occupied regions of Ukraine.
Which is exactly dictating terms instead of negotiating, and exactly what I am talking about when I say that you are on the side of those who are not willing to negotiate.
You’re pulling an argument of another person into my argument and accuse me of hypocrisy based on that.
You are arguing in bad faith, have a nice day.Ok sorry, both comments were heavily upvoted so I assumed this is the collective position, my bad.
Why would you even try to negotiate with a terrorist (and whatever else attributes Putin has attributed to him)? For a war to end, there needs to be a winner and a looser - Russia HAS to loose this, because they have been disregarding rules set by most international communities for over 100 Years.
Apart from that, Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms. That may just a be a tiny difference to your pea brain, but it’s a pretty huge one in reality. How cynical and fucked up does one have to be, to be willing to negotiate with terrorists? Not only that, how utterly depraved of any civility, intelligence and decency has anyone be, to accuse Ukraine of being “the bad guy” here?
they have been disregarding rules set by most international communities for over 100 Years.
Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.
Putin is not willing to negotiate - they are willing to dictated terms
Well but how do you know that if you don’t negotiate? Your media told you so? Oh then it must be the truth, because it’s the other’s side media that spreads propaganda, the one that you listen to speaks the truth, am I right?
pea brain
Why is almost every negotiation with the “clearly intelligently superior westerner leftists” boils down to Ad Hominem? Why do you never have a convincing argument and have to resort to personal attacks of people you disagree with?
how utterly depraved of any civility, intelligence and decency has anyone be, to accuse Ukraine of being “the bad guy” here?
Are you seriously talking about civility and decency while supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder? If this is what you call civility and decency, then I am indeed depraved of it.
Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.
That’s what Russians are telling themself to cope with the reality, that they don’t want to see. The reality is: Nobody is breaking them like Russia. Even China doesn’t do it like Russia does. For the most part, there is accountability in the rest of the world, corruption isn’t as rampant as it is in Russia.
Well but how do you know that if you don’t negotiate? Your media told you so? Oh then it must be the truth, because it’s the other’s side media that spreads propaganda, the one that you listen to speaks the truth, am I right?
No, you couldn’t be more wrong. “The Media” told me nothing, they just translate what Russia, Putin and his cronies are talking about and there are enough people speaking Russian to raise flags if they translate something wrong. Another thing Russian propaganda is trying to do, but failing for the most part. Sure, interviews can be taken out of context, but actions also speak louder than any words anyone can utter and what russia is doing is terrorizing innocent people, displace innocent children and rip families apart.
Why is almost every negotiation with the “clearly intelligently superior westerner leftists” boils down to Ad Hominem? Why do you never have a convincing argument and have to resort to personal attacks of people you disagree with?
Because “we” are fucking tired of all these stupid antics that can’t even withstand a long hard view at the facts. All that shit about shifting the blame and goalposts, disregarding everything that was “before” is just exhausting and it doesn’t work/help anything, because every argument is met with more lies, propaganda, egoism and whataboutism.
Are you seriously talking about civility and decency while supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder? If this is what you call civility and decency, then I am indeed depraved of it.
See? That’s what is so utterly infuriating about you - there is not a single shred of evidence supporting this. No Report from anyone has ever talked about this, no interview with the people, no interview with soldiers - nothing. While the evidence Russia is doing exactly that is utterly crushing - there is absolutely zero doubt, because numerous people, outlets, pictures, satellite surveillance and various money laundering schemes reported independently the same thing over and over again.
And for what it’s worth: I’m not sure if i’m talking to ChatGPT or a proper human being, but if i’m talking to a real human being, nothing i will write here will get you off your high horse anyway, so this is more to all those people reading this in the future (if any), but let it be known that enough is enough and “the silent majority” is done being quiet.
there is not a single shred of evidence supporting this
Everybody is breaking them whenever it is convenient.
Putin’s Evil Empire isn’t “everybody”.
supporting a regime that hunts and kidnaps people on the streets sending them into the meat grinder?
Yes why do you support these guys? And why do you hate the Free World?
Yes why do you support these guys?
I support neither Russia nor Ukraine.
And why do you hate the Free World?
Because the Free World is currently conducting a genocide on Ukrainians
The only ones conducting a genocide on Ukrainians are the Russians.
They could pull back any time they wanted and end the war this instant. But they choose to keep killing.
And why do you hate the Free World?
Because the Free World is currently conducting a genocide on Ukrainians
You cannot tell the difference between Russia and the Free World? What is wrong with you man?
You’re terrible at lying, not convinced at all. 2/10.
So what is it I lie about?
What is this leftist fetish of accusing people of lying, and not point out what they consider a lie (and I’m not even talking about proving the opponents wrong by providing some arguments, this clearly requires too much intelligence, right?)?..Because it’s just easier to down vote and move along. We’re not being paid like you are. Plus, fascism is incredibly hard to stomach for normal people. You wouldn’t understand.
Sure, everybody who disagrees with your opinion is getting paid
You’re right, you could actually be a fascist and do it for free. Shrug Or you actually believe their propaganda, I guess… But if I were you I think I’d rather people believe I was being paid.
The only ones killing Ukrainians are the Russians and their bloodthirsty lapdogs they send against their will into war.
Answered another one of your comment, but I’ll reiterate it here as well - the ones that are killing Ukrainians are Zelensky and his regime supported by the west, by “sending against their will into war”.
If not for that, those people would live, so their blood is on your hands.
You are on the side of these jackbooted thugs.
