The man who operates the meat grinder? The man who started the business of shoving people into a grinder???

Those are two different people though.

Russia.

Now, I answered your question, would you please be so kind to answer mine now, which is also quite simple?

If there are two men, man A is simply operating a meat grinder while man B kidnaps people from the streets (soon he will start breaking into people’s homes as well), forcefully pushes them into the meat grinder, and watches to make sure they can’t get out of it, he also makes sure nobody leaves the city so that he can continue his game, who do you blame more for deaths of people in the meat grinder?

Your views are at odds with reality.

And surely you are able to point out what exactly am I wrong about? :)

but actually the opposite is trying to reach out to NK and stabilise relations

That’s just super fucking ironic, considering that Russia never stopped saying that they are open to negotiations (and the very first peace deal was actually they they go back to before-2022-invasion borders) and it is Zelensky who always refuses to negotiate and instead sends more Ukrainians to die.

Right, so basically it’s okay for countries to be authoritarian, it’s okay to slaughter thousands of people and making everybody else live in constant fear, as long as the government aligns itself with the west.
Why would I blame Russia? It’s not Russia, it’s not Putin who is kidnapping people of the streets in Ukraine and sends them to die. It’s Zelensky’s regime.

Very cool and humanitarian and obviously I don’t agree with that. But out of curiosity - can you please explain to me why is North Korea different?
It is also officially still in a state of a war with South Korea. Does it mean Kim Jong Un is suddenly also a hero that leads his country against the enemy? It doesn’t matter that people are trapped there, it doesn’t matter that people may not support him, all the atrocities committed by him do not matter as well, because they are in a war, am I right?

I’m sorry that your current reality is an aggression into your homeland and that they’re calling on you against your will. That sure sucks.

It sure does :(

But even if goes against your wishes, peace doesn’t exist there (presumably you’re talking from the Ukraine) and liberties are the first thing to go when shit gets real

I am from Ukraine, but thankfully I am not in Ukraine, as I managed to escape it before the war started when it was still possible.
Peace was always possible, but Zelensky and his regime does not want it, because war is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions/billions of dollars.

No one pretended during the world war that they were a free and fair democracy

Zelensky does pretend that Ukraine is free and fair democracy though, and is lying to everyone’s faces that Ukraine is a democratic country that “doesn’t chase people with sticks to the frontlines”. He is a pathological liar, and unfortunately many people believe him.

Good luck with the ruskies, hope they die 2 per 1 shot at your country’s hands for what they’re doing.

The problem is not with “ruskies”, the problem is with Zelensky. Just 1 shot would be enough, and it can’t come soon enough. We can deal with Russia later.

When the left punishes you

When the left punishes you (without them even admitting or realizing it), your country is getting turned into a mass prison and your family, your friends, and you are then slaughtered in a war, all to the applause of the left, praising your dictatorial government for being heroes.
And then, when you try to show people what’s happening in your own country, the atrocities your own government is committing upon you, the left tries to silence you until you get slaughtered, or until it becomes irrelevant and everybody moves on and forgets about it.
That’s how the left punishes you.

At least with a loss of opportunities, you still have your life and other guaranteed freedoms to find a different opportunity.

Please tell me, and every other Ukrainian, how our life and “other guaranteed freedoms” is going? How we are able to leave the country if we want to, how we are not kidnapped from the streets (and soon will be from our homes) and sent to die? Please tell me more about it.

You’re bored of people pointing out your hypocrisy?
But it’s not surprising, you’re not supposed to be entertained by it, you’re supposed to think about it…

Authoritarianism cannot be tolerated.

Except when it suits your agenda, in that case it’s not only tolerated, but actually encouraged! :)

I’ve been banned from .ml for being a ‘racist’ for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion.

And I’ve been censored (not yet banned, but I guess it won’t take long till that as well) on lemmy.world (and beehaw) for spreading “misinformation” about Ukraine, despite being a Ukrainian and actually reading (and sharing) the local news of what’s actually happening there, contrary to the government propaganda.

it is conservative/ right wing parties pushing for heavier surveillance of citizens.

My experience is totally different, although of course I don’t know the situation in whatever country you’re from.
Arguably, the main reason for surveillance (being able to read your communication) is to be able to censor you (prevent you from posting/saying things somebody else doesn’t like) or even punish you for something you say.
And I don’t see how can anyone argue that it is not the left that wants to censor everything and punish people for things they say :)

If somebody wants to actually try arguing it, please answer the following question (in parentheses I’ll leave the suggested answer 😉, but let me know if yours are different)

• Why is almost every free speech site is a right-wing site, and not a left-wing one? (because they are extremist, and we need to censor and jail them! but it is okay, because they are the bad ones and we are the good ones.)
• Is it okay to criticize alphabet people (and call them alphabet people ig 🙃), post statistics of violent crimes by race, and generally speak bad about minorities? (nooo, you can’t do that, we should protect minorities no matter what the reality is, you should be censored and jailed!)
• Is it okay to tell people what is actually happening in Ukraine and what atrocities Zelensky’s regime is committing? (nooo, you can’t do that, you’re a fascist and/or russian bot/propagandist, it’s all a lie even if you provide us with credible/primary sources, we should censor you as soon as possible for propaganda or misinformation or something and definitely jail you!)

What country are you from?

I’m from Ukraine. You can find a little bit more info about that in my other comments - but TLDR is that thankfully I have left it before the war started, some of my family managed to escape it (illegally of course, going through the occupied territories and then through Russia, it’s a mass prison now for most of the men there), but some are still trapped and trying to not get caught by the government, because if they do (and don’t have enough money for a bribe), they will be sent to the front lines and probably die.

I don’t see any fascist comments in your profile

Cool, thanks, glad to see someone here with whom it’s possible to have a conversation without getting called a fascist :)

but you do seem extremely pissed off that Ukraine is defending itself from Russia.

I am not pissed about Ukraine defending itself from Russia. I absolutely support the right of everyone, both people and nations, to defend themselves against an invader! I also never said that Russia are the good guys (and yet, I’m getting labeled Russian propagandist/bot as well, just saying that Russia invaded Ukraine and there is a war is a punishable offense in Russia for which I’d be sitting in jail 🤷). The problem is, it’s not “Ukraine defending itself from Russia”.
There is this propaganda from Zelensky’s regime that we are all volunteering to defend our country against “orcs”, and he is the hero that leading us into this battle. This is as far from the truth as it gets. We want peace, which he doesn’t even try to achieve (and why would he? War is what allows him to stay in power and steal millions, or likely billions of dollars). His regime needs to resort to kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the front-lines to die. Some are refusing this and are getting sent to prisons where they are tortured. Some are trying to escape by the mountains/rivers and are dying while trying to do so. So yeah, what I’m pissed about is that the current government, supported by the west, may kill my family or my friends any day now, just like they already killed tens/hundreds of thousands already.
If it was like Zelensky’s propaganda is saying where we are defending our country, and our country was not turned into a mass-prison, I’d be sending donates to AFU every freaking month. But in this reality, any support for the current government of my country is equivalent to supporting my family/friends getting killed, and as you can imagine I am not going to do that, and trying to discourage everybody else from doing so.

Yeah, so that’s exactly what I’m talking about, just insults and complete lack of ability to have a normal discussion :(

So, if you have not moved on yet (if you have and/or are not willing to continue the conversation - please still think about it, it’s important for self-improvement) - I have just one question for you. In theory, if you were believing in something that is not actually true (of course this is impossible, as you are clearly intelligently superior than me and your every belief is correct, but let’s pretend otherwise just for the sake of a thought experiment), how would you expect to learn the truth, if you refrain from engaging in a civilized argument and call people that disagree with you trash and fascists? For example, if you lived a few centuries ago, and believed that Earth is flat (which is a normal thing to believe at that time btw, because that was the consensus of the majority) and you called everybody who says it’s round a fascist (at that time it would rather be heretic, but it doesn’t matter), how do you imagine a scenario where you learn the truth? Or are you saying that you don’t care about learning the truth?

Yeah, that’s true!
And then anyone can point out (and of course quote the exact text I’ve said without ripping it out of context and/or rephrasing it in their own words) which of the things I said makes me fascist :)
For some unknown (although deducible…) reason nobody has done that so far though, everyone prefers ad hominem attacks… Hm… It’s almost like actual by-definition fascists call me fascist just to make me look bad but have no arguments to support their claims… Weird, we all know the intellectuals of lemmy would be never do that :)

Aaaaand yeah, that’s exactly what I was talking about ^ :/

And you know the funniest shit about that?

wikipedia:

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy

That’s exactly, like exactly what I argue against, and those who call me fascist argue in favor. I’m getting labeled fascist by actual fascists XD

Telling people what’s actually happening in my country, and then getting called a fascist because it doesn’t align with what their very-independent and very-honest and totally-not-biased media tell them. That could have been fun if it wasn’t really sad :(

I just hope you’re right

I bet you blame the Palestinians for the bombing of Raffa.

Well, you’ve just lost your bet. I condemn both the genocide of Palestinians (done by the USA through Israel), and the genocide of Ukrainians (done again mostly by the USA through Ukrainian government. Damn, those guys really do like massacring people all around the globe :/, almost like they are the bad guys, hm…).

You would blame World War II on the Polish.

Nope, I don’t, good thing you didn’t make a bet on it, otherwise you’d lose two bets in a row.
But I do blame Poland for participating in massacring Ukrainians though. In fact, Poland is among the worst offenders! It helps “heroes” of Ukrainian border guard to catch those who try to escape Zelensky’s meatgrinder, who then get sent straight to the meatgrinder… For that reason, people mostly escape to Romania. Thankfully, Romania is not as sadistic as the rest of the democratic & free world.

Not like that!
Others (preferably Ukrainians, we don’t consider them humans anyway, right?) should go and destroy Russia instead of me, I should be lying comfortably on my bed commenting how we should destroy Russia!
/s

Zelenskyy is done, too, and there’s no way around that. His term has expired and is now an unelected dictator imposing martial law, which everyone loves, of course. His best chance of exiting this thing alive would be to surrender and live out his life in a Russian prison, or some faction or another within Ukraine will surely have him publicly executed.

I would love to believe this.
Unfortunately, villains getting punished rarely happens outside of fiction and books for children. In the reality they just retire with millions of dollars (in his case it’s probably billions tho) stolen for themselves and their children.
Whatever the outcome - be it WW3, total genocide of Ukrainians or whatever else - the scumbag will probably be remembered in the history books as a hero who stood up to Russia. There will be no remark that “standing up” in that case means kidnapping people from the streets and being responsible for deaths of those who unsuccessfully tried to escape his prison by rivers/mountains.
That said, I still hope that someone will murder this piece of shit