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Lemmy.ml is still focused on FOSS and Privacy, Lemmygrad.ml is focused on Marxism-Leninism. As such, there are plenty of non-MLs on Lemmy.ml, including Anarchist communities, while this is banned on Lemmygrad.ml.
Very different instances, I wouldn’t call Lemmygrad.ml “mask off” Lemmy.ml.
I have an account on lemmygrad and when I created it, I was asked about my politics. They formally accepted every left ideology but when you say anything remotely anti-authoritarian, you get downvoted into oblivion
Mind boggling. Like seriously, I am as left wing as they come and for me that is defined by anti-authoritarian views. Fascists aren’t bad because they are the wrong kind of fascist.
to be fair, tankies are the fascist skinwalkers wearing the visage of the lefties they killed
Almost literally, if you know jack shit about the Russian revolution.
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Oh shit. I now I dont know if I like this, or “Leftist version of a Nazi Brony” more
I totally agree with you. That said, tankies will argue some shit why they are further left. You can go into that discussion about the semantics of left and distract from the fact that tankies are evil. Or stop “gatekeeping” leftness and argue why they are bad.
I’ve recently come to the conclusion that they are the leftist version of Nazi Bronies, like, dude, you’re one of the first populations that your preferred rulers are going to purge.
Not doubting you, but what do you mean by “anti-authouritarian?” Presumably you’ve read Engels’ On Authority so you know what they are operating under the pretense of, I can see anti-Marxist takes getting removed or downvoted. It is Lemmygrad after all, not Lemmy EZLN or Lemmy Catalonia.
I didn’t mean to disagree with you. Just add that they are formally open to other leftist viewpoints but not effectively.
And yes, you will get alot of strawmans like Engels’ On Authority. If you want an analysis of the text, this video debunks it quite well
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this video debunks it quite well
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Are you an anti-Engels Marxist? I’m sorry, I think I actually agree with downvoting you, lol. That’s silly.
No, I’m not a Marxist. I agree with him in some points and agree with some libertarian Marxists but at the end, they say alot of stuff Bakunin, Kropotkin, Goldman, … said long before
So… why are you surprised that you get downvoted for being an Anarchist in a Marxist-Leninist space?
I’m not surprised. If anything, I was surprised to be accepted into it at the first place. Sometimes I’m surprised by the low level of education some people have. You mentioned Catalonia. Some people don’t seem to know nor want to know anything about the Spanish civil war or the anything. I sometimes try to argue with people from different ideologies because I think it’s an opportunity for all to grow and sharpen their position but I’m not surprised to be downvoted. In no comment of this thread did I express surprise
Lenin had some disagreements with Marx, i dont even like marx ans lenin is worse, and ‘marxist lenninist’ means ‘stalinist’. Which is even worse. You cannot call them ‘leftists’.
What is a leftist, if not someone advocating collective owmership of Capital? Leftist isn’t a syononym for “good,” of course, but I fail to see how Marxist-Leninists aren’t leftists.
In the USSR the serfs were still serfs even if they weren’t called that, the workers still didn’t own the means of production, and there was still a tiny room of delusional shit sticks making all the decisions, often wildly irrationally.
Better than one guy doing it, but no more, or not much more communist than the UK or France.
The USSR was a Worker State, owned and run by the workers. Soviet Democracy was the base model of decision making, along the formation of Democratic Centralism.
There were numerous struggles and issues with the USSR, of course. There was corruption, especially among the Politburo. The focus on heavy industry over light industry, though favorable during WWII, resulted in fewer luxury commodities, which resulted in liberalization and collapse.
Fundamentally, it is entirely silly to say that the USSR wasn’t leftist. It absolutely was, even if it was highly flawed and imperfect. In fact, it’s useful to analyze what went right (free eduaction, high home ownership, generous social safety net) and what went wrong (corruption, lack of luxury commodities, etc.) so as to come up with a better system.
That is, unless you think Marxism isn’t leftist, and think only Anarchism counts as leftist, in which case I really don’t know what to tell you.
The Bolsheviks killed all the communists. Including the Marxists.
There is the fascist
In what manner at all? Fascism is fucking horrible. I am recommending about Marx and Engels as examples of Leftists. Unless, of course, you think Communism is fascist, in which case I really don’t know what to tell you.
Lemmy.ml is still focused on FOSS and Privacy
Meanwhile at c/worldnews they remove replies where people disagree that Ukraine is run by fascists and Putin should take it.
Just realized that .ml is a domain hack for tankies. Go figure.
Except lemmygrad users are realizing we all blocked their instance and are becoming more active in lemmy.ml to try and evade this, and so yeah, .ml is getting more and more like Lemmygrad
Can’t wait for this to become a systemic issue with Lemmy. Why does everything have to be ruined by tankies and conservatives? They know that nobody wants to talk to them, but they will evade and disrespect the rules just to make other people miserable.
What a sad hobby.
Tbh, I’m not super worried, theres already been defederation with Hexbear and Lemmygrad. As they infect tanky safezones and cause more defederations because of it, non tankie specific federations are going to start becoming specifically anti Tankie in response. I mean, look at my comment calling them brain damaged, it hasnt been civility removed yet, which I feel is a good sign. So while they can always create new accounts on non Tankie federations, over time they are going to start having to hide their more violent revolution and dictator loving sides, which tbh, at that point I’ll tolerate their presence.
Edit: It’s kind of ironic how in a post where I called other people brain damaged, I wrote it like I was having a stroke. I’ve edited it to make it flow faaaaarrr better
There are people who think they’re at all different?
I’m pretty sure lemmygrad was explicitly created to be the mask off equivalent of .ml
There are users who don’t know why .ml was the domain that was used, only that it was the original instance so that’s what they chose to sign up with.
Yep when I first joined I thought it stood for main Instance.
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Why was it the domain that was used?
i don’t know that people think they are different per se, but i do see a strange sense of shock that the same people annoyed with one might also be annoyed at the other
Oh please. Everyone knows individuality is sold at Hollister.
I leave them unblocked, I like seeing the crazies sometimes
absolutely a valid position to have
I block individuals. I think it can be good to expose myself to the eastern narrative a little since I’m only experiencing a western narrative. As well as eastern shitpost’s since I subscribe to 4chan
Most non-bots are from United States and know nothing about eastern narrative other than what russian and Chinese bots are feeding them.
I find your innocence thinking the western narrative is not managed by CIA bots and shills, a bit cute. Just look at any discourse regarding Israel and Palestine and see how braindead liberals become bloodthirsty af when they realize many in the world don’t share their worldview.
Love the name btw
Thank you 🥹
Thanks I need to get the wiggles out sometimes too
Wait, what’s lemmygrad?? I incorrectly inferred that lemmygrad was a disparaging name for lemmy.ml
Neat, we’re not federated with them
Good for you. I blocked that instance the second that was an option.
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There are instances that don’t defederate at all. Or block piracy communities.
no matter how bad it might seem here I can promise reddit is a thousand times worse
Let me give an example: I have a friend on Bluesky. He’s as middle of the road as it’s possible to be (and I say that in an entirely neutral way; it makes him neither better nor worse than anyone). He’s nice, and a good person. But he’s aggressive, disruptive, a fight-picker, and a single-issue conversationalist on social media. Bluesky seems to have a disproportionate number of people who are very nice, well-meaning, but aggressive and disruptive. I left Bluesky to exit an echo chamber for something more serene. I think that’s one thing the loud folk don’t quite get, regardless of their ideology: not all of us are here to yell and throw things all the time.
Why does this feel like a dark family secret.
They’re our crazy uncle that we try to keep locked in the basement but sometimes guests hear the crazed incomprehensible ranting from the cellar door.
Newbie here, do I not see lemmygrad stuff on my “all” feed because I am on the shitjustworks instance?
I can pull it up in the search bar, but don’t seem able to subscribe.
I probably need to watch a newbs guide to the fediverse video or something. Like I understand the basic idea, but not the nuances or technical stuff.
defed.xyz lets you check.
looks like your instance is defederated by lemmygrad, so that’s probably what’s up.
Yea I knew I had start looking up who is federated with whom. Thanks for the link!
no problem im always forgetting this specific link too, but it’s really handy :)
Yeah. Also, your instance is pretty well known for doing little about the vast numbers of hard right and alt right individuals on it who seek out and harass left leaning individuals, so it’s in both instances best interest to be separated.
Thanks for the heads up. Outside of a couple instances I see mentioned all the time, Im not really sure of the differences between them all and their reputations. Lemmy world was my first attempt, but two or three times the account creation did not work. I’m sure it was user error, but I’m not sure how exactly I messed up.
yes! @TheDude@sh.itjust.works doesn’t like grad and defederated from them.
here’s why in their own words:
The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.
Actually, there was a vote immediately after the defederation to see whether people wanted lemmygrad refederated, and about 80-90% of the votes were to stay defederated, so it seems the users of sh.itjust.works also don’t like grad.
edit: my mistake, turns out it was hexbear that was voted on, which has similar content
It’s worth noting about your edit: I’m pretty sure hexbear was the one that initiated defederation from shit over shit posters being transphobic and harassing users in dms.
You are correct, hexbear did defederate from sh.itjust.works about a week after federating with them, so the vote became moot.
The reason you gave is part of the reason hexbear admins gave, but I would take what they say with a grain of salt. I’ve seen people say things like “being trans in thoughts is a much different experiece than being trans in the way you dress, act, and look” and hexbear users will call that transphobic/uninclusive, as well as generally being vitriolic and unpleasant.
As an example, a post where someone says “Biden brings up minimum wage increase and asks other democrats to speak up” will have several comments from hexbear users saying “capitalist bootlickers defending Biden should be shot like the vermin they are.” Maybe some users harassed hexbear users for these comments? I personally didn’t see any but it’s definitely possible.
Lol
Transphobia in DM’s
Wow what the fuck
Why do they run two lemmy instances?
Obfuscation. They know lemmygrad is too obviously tankie for most people, but lemmy.ml is not so obvious. The .ml is a dogwhistle that a lot of users won’t understand, so they can buy some measure of legitimacy that way. I guess they keep lemmygrad because they also want a place where they can go full mask-off.
If your theory is correct, then why would they also keep many of their users uninformed? Referring to Lemmy.ml, of course. You claim it’s for legitimacy, but doesn’t that cease to fulfill its purpose? Is the goal to make a generalist instance, but with slightly more MLs, but also divert the MLs to Lemmygrad?
I’m not sure your theory is correct, I think Lemmy.ml is just what it says it is: a generalist, FOSS and Privacy focused instance run by the devs, who are MLs.
If your theory is correct, then why would they also keep many of their users uninformed? Referring to Lemmy.ml, of course. You claim it’s for legitimacy, but doesn’t that cease to fulfill its purpose?
Because the users that don’t know what the instance is for are the ones that help lend legitimacy to it, because then people like you can believe that it’s just a general instance with no political undertones. You aren’t running cover for them, you are their cover.
Just think for a second about what you’re suggesting. They want to make an instance that is to lend legitimacy to a fringe political ideology, and they openly tell all of their users that that’s exactly what they’re doing? Then all anyone would need to do to destroy that legitimacy would be to publish whatever message the users receive explaining the true purpose of the instance. The cover only works if it’s deniable, and your idea would make it completely undeniable.
Is the goal to make a generalist instance, but with slightly more MLs, but also divert the MLs to Lemmygrad?
That is one of the goals, yes.
Sorry, I really think this is ridiculous. Is Lemmy.world a cover for Liberalism, because it’s run by liberals? Is db0 a cover for Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism, because db0 is a Libertarian Socialist? This is just red-scare style paranoia.
The very existance of Lemmygrad.ml should prove that there is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist space for MLs, and Lemmy.ml is a generalist instance for people who don’t care enough about that but want a server dedicated to FOSS and Privacy.
Is Lemmy.world a cover for Liberalism, because it’s run by liberals? Is db0 a cover for Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism, because db0 is a Libertarian Socialist?
Liberals and libertarian socialists are usually pretty open about what they believe, so there’s no cover needed. They’re not covert ideologies like tankies have.
However neoliberalism is a fairly hated ideology. If the people who ran lemmy.world were literally the same people running a neoliberalism sub on that instance and they also ran thatcher.love or whatever, and they banned people for saying neoliberalism was trash, then yeah, it would be a reasonable inference that lemmy.world was some sort of entryist ploy.
It is the existence of lemmygrad combined with the behaviour of the people running lemmy.ml that makes the case to defederate. If that happens and you don’t like it, you could always migrate your account, unless you like it there, in which case you’re probably not the normie you first appeared to be.
Edit: changed “fringe” to “covert”.
Completely tangential, but imma be real with you: libsocs are fringe too.
Indeed, socialism of any sort is pretty fringe in most of the West.
That’s a fair point, although I would say socialism is becoming less fringe, and it seems like the various types of libsoc are the main forms of socialism because people have seen the failures of state based solutions, even amongst demsocs/socdems.
That said, I kind of agree and the word “fringe” didn’t sit quite right. On reflection a better word would be “covert”, since ideologies that explicitly want to dominate people tend to hide what they are, since they know it’s not acceptable to state their aims up front. That’s really the idea I was getting at.
Lemmy.world regularly bans Marxist-Leninists, it is a two-way street there.
Again, I truly don’t see how Lemmygrad taking the marxist-leninists means Lemmy.ml is a cover for Marxism-Leninism, it’s a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy.
Just for being marxist-leninists? Or because they were toxic assholes?
“it’s a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy.” -moderated and controlled at least somewhat by tankies who will delete your comment and possibly ban you for saying things about their flavour of communism that they dont like
The whole reason this was posted is because of the users posting they got banned from ml for stating facts that tankies disagree with.
Such as?
They’ll ban you for acknowledging the existence of the Uyghur genocide, for one
Edit: wording
Merely using the word Tankie has gotten me bigotry ruled recently. .ml is infected with Tankies regardless of what other people use it for.
Edit: Oooh, the Tankie Brigade are here
ML wasn’t machine learning? 😱
It’s actually Mali, as in, the country.
and twitch.tv stands for tuvalu! definitely not television
Lemmy.ml is focused on FOSS and Privacy, and is generally a “generalist” instance with that FOSS and Privacy slant.
Lemmygrad.ml is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist instance for Marxist-Leninists.
They really aren’t comparable instances outside of the dev connection.
They don’t. Its basically saying that both instances are leftist based, which is true.
They are fascist based, not left
Me when I see !tankiejerk@lemmy.world is leaking:
!tankiejerk@lemmy.world is the syntax for linking to communities. I feel it’s used too rarely on Lemmy, leading to the slow propagation of information and few people using the unique features that make the lemmyverse navigable. I’d never manage to reach the communities I’m searching for if not for easy linking.
Oh, TIL. Is there any specific documentation for syntax like this for lemmy?
Will edit it in when I find more butthis is Lemmy’s markdown tutorial. It covers a few items uniqueish to lemmy, especially cool are magnet links, but I’m not sure where they keep info about other unique features. Offhandedly, the only other thing I can think of is linking to profiles with @Gullible@sh.itjust.works. (This does ping the user, btw)Edit: I got nothing, it’s impossible to find and/or doesn’t exist. No other option. But if someone else finds it, a link would be helpful.
Ohh yeah, look at all those notifications. That feels good. Oh god, I’m close. Oh god.
Good thing you can block instances. : )
I don’t think that’s a good solution. If I personally block an instance they can still see my comments and posts and have full conversations alongside them that everybody except me can read. I reserve blocking for genuine harrasment, not horrible ideas in general. I’d rather be part of the discussion and use that to build a case for defederation if it’s really so bad I’d want to block them.
Agreed, and I think defederation from Lemmy.ml is overdue.
They’re a toxic mouthpiece for authoritarian governments pretending to be communists, especially the CCP but also the Kremlin. They’re the reason I won’t even admit to anyone that I use Lemmy.
I had an old account I abandoned because they followed me around and downvoted everything I posted. Most of it was funny memes I was posting to help Lemmy grow.
They’re the same trashy people as Hexbear but with a nicer mask and surrounded by legitimate users who don’t realize what’s going on.
It’s not enough that you ignore views you don’t like, you must apparently stop everyone else on the same instance(s) as you from seeing these views. For our protection and safety, I assume?
I just don’t have the time or energy to deal with the toxic behaviour of those people. I don’t run an instance, the one I use doesn’t block others, but I block some instances for my personal account. Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with blocking instances yourself. My issue is with people who take it upon themselves to mount a campaign to block instances for all other users on an instance.
I have an issue with people who mount a campaign to stop defederation regardless of who it’s targeting.
sigh
All together now:
“If users don’t like that their instance has defederated then they can migrate their accounts.”
I have yet to see a real answer to this from people who concern troll about defederation.
Or, more simply, if you don’t like the instance then you can block it yourself. That’s what the feature is for. It’s not concern trolling to point out that I don’t want people like you choosing which instances I get to see from which instances I use.
It’s much easier for you to use the block feature as intended instead of you screaming at instance maintainers to censor content for everyone on that instance you don’t like and making people create accounts all over different instances just because you can’t handle a different opinion. Why needlessly fracture the fediverse because of your personal preferences?
sigh
“Blocking is a band-aid that doesn’t remove the problem community from interacting with your community at large, which is how you limit the ability of that community to spread their harmful behaviour.”
Also, I don’t choose, the instance admins choose. Nothing I say will change that. If I successfully convince them, then they were convincable. If you don’t like that… change instances.
“Problem community”, huh? Now that’s concern trolling! You’re just concerned about others being exposed to a nebulous “problem community”?
Why do you think you get to decide for others what a “problem community” is? I’ve seen people like you rally together to scream at instance maintainers to block other instances because you don’t like their opinions. Stop being a fediverse karen and use the block function or, if you’re such a control freak, maintain your own instance.
I’m sorry, do you think the concept of a “problem community” is somehow not a concept that makes sense? What is your argument here exactly?
Are you trying to say that defederation should never be done? If not, then what are you saying?
Paradox of tolerance, my good friend.
That’s fair. I’m a filthy casual and thus blocking instances works fine for me (3 so far). User comments from those instances are shown to me with a spoiler tag and when I click on them I can still see them and even comment on them. But I’m happy that posts from those instances don’t show up in my feed.
User comments from those instances are shown to me with a spoiler tag and when I click on them I can still see them and even comment on them.
That’s actually a pretty good solution, I didn’t realise it worked like that.
Maybe instance blocking is a solution I can use in that case…
man, I really need to create my own instance sometime.
I’ve not been on here long enough to know what this is about, anyone care to explain?
The ml stands for Marxist Leninist. Basically, it means the admins of an instance ending in ml has been some revolting politics.
It actually stands for “Mali”.
I understand that, but there’s a reason they chose that domain, and that’s why.
Its bc its cheap iirc, the second meaning was a plus tho im sure
And not just Marxist Leninism, but revanchist Marxist Leninism which denies the wrongdoing of not only Stalin and Mao but also Putin and Xi entirely and blames anything that happened in history or present on the West.
ie. Tankies.
I wouldn’t really have much problem with them if they were Marxist Leninist and still acknowledged history and reality. Unfortunately that’s not the case.
We acknowledge history and reality. Calling all of us Tankies is such a cop out. Putin bad, Xi is pretty chill comparatively speaking to Putin. Lemmy.ml is a beacon of free speech and ideas compared to Lemmygrad and hexbear, where i have had multiple comments deleted when I wrote well thought put arguments around voting for the lesser of 2 evils to be the best course of action to protect the Prolitariat while forming the Class Conciousness necessary for any sort of true Marxist society to form. Yall calling anyone left of Democratic Socialist is reactionary af.
Beacon of free speech? That’s not only a huge stretch, I’m gonnq say thats bullshit altogether, go look at the modlog and you might change your mind. They delete and ban people for having different opinions, even when they have sources and evidence.
This doesn’t match the reality I’ve experienced there unfortunately. And I did give it the good old college try before giving up.
I still can’t stop associating ml with machine learning first 😅
I assumed that’s what it stood for because it was listed as hosting tech-focused communities.
Yup, same. Well, half a year later I found out the hidden truth 🌚 and keep forgetting it every time, still
Also, “Marxism-Leninism” as a term was coined by Stalin, but there’s a reason people avoid the term “Stalinism”, because even these people understand that his horrific legacy can’t be revised.
So whenever you hear the term, you can understand that it’s basically Stalinism papered over with the names of dead men who couldn’t object to him puppeteering them and coopting their legacy to lend legitimacy to his reign of terror.
I thought it meant machine learning :(
In short, it is politics.
Lemmy.ml is full of socialists! Edit: really
I wish.
I love socialism and keep engaging but all too often it’s people glorifying dictators.
Hi just migrated from Lemmy.ml. just wondering what a tankie actually is? I’ve heard it used a lot especially on Lemmy. My guess is some kind of pro CCP kind of communist but that’s my best guess
Edit: Nvm just googled it. Its pretty much what I wrote.
yeah you p much got it, (e: specifically they are v v chill with violence against innocents and authoritarianism to bring about their chosen regime. im already getting downvoted in this comment tho so yeah just go look at the wikipedia page 😭)
Does that mean most Americans are tankies when it comes to Israel’s ongoing genocide of Palestinians 🤔
**Clearly struck a cord with the bloodthirsty genocide supporters
Tankie is a term exclusively used for communists.
Oh yeah I forgot. Communism is bad, but mass killing brown Muslims is fine because they’re subhuman cannon fodder for furthering America’s Military Industrial Complex. Thanks for clearing that up.
Communism isn’t bad per se, authoritarianism is, but there are many authoritarian regimes going under the name ‘communist’, thus we have a term for that: tankie. Using different terms to describe the Israeli state (like fascist, ethno-nationalist, or Zionist) and its supporters does not mean it’s not bad. It really is! It’s just categorically different in the ideology espoused by them, and having language to describe that is not bad.
Intentionally missing the point of the irony behind Americans using words that allude to ignoring a genocide while actively ignoring a genocide they’re tax dollars are funding.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re just a troll or actually this stupid.
American perspective: opposing genocide is stupid
Words have meaning you know. That is just the meaning of the word tankie. If you fail to understand that, I feel sorry for you.
plenty of the people leveraging the word “tankie” against tankies are communists, or at least socialists, just less authoritarian ones. and i’d venture to guess that the vast majority of those people are anti-genocide, including the case of Gaza.
please take the smallest of measures to understand the positions at foot before stuffing straw men into everyone’s mouths. you look quite foolish here.
no that doesn’t mean that. tankies are communist. most americans are not generally communists
Wait, I though lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml were about machine learning and gradient stuff
that would be nice 😂
Tankies, you can keep jumping servers because we blocked your old servers, and we’ll just keep blocking you. No one is interested in your brain damage
It’s pretty obvious a ton of them have .world alts now and just brigade from those.
Tag em in app whenever you see em, makes life easier.
Mines a lemm.ee alt thank you very much
ml is okayish compared to hexbear lol
I thought at first it was some fun leftist lgbt place but quickly I ran into violent bloodthirsty comments that made my skin crawl. there are also many of my lovely fellow transfems over there ugh. it is really sad when people are lost into the void of extremism. But I don’t really blame them however I grieve them.
