Imagine having to pilot a submarine with stick drift.
I mean, Logitech makes reliable stuff. But shouldn’t they at lease have a player 2 MadKatz controller in a bin somewhere?
I had a Logitech f710 for a long time (before 8bitdo controllers. I eventually switched to them because I play a lot of retro games.)
They are great controllers. Thing I don’t get though is why did they use the f710 and not the f310 which is identical except for color and that it’s wired? Just seems like less can go wrong with a wired controller. Do you really need the space and freedom you get from a wireless controller down there?
I don’t think that’s particularly bad. Logitech makes reliable input devices. I recall that the US Navy switched to Xbox controllers to control their periscopes on nuclear submarines and saved millions of dollars and found that people understood the controls better.
The navy uses it for periscopes, and training. Not piloting anything like this. This thing was definitely made as cheap as possible.
An off the shelf controller with several backup failsafes (they keep spares on board) is a perfectly reasonable way to do this. In such a cramped space, a hardwired or mounted helm would probably be continuously bumped or tangled.
Any custom purpose-built wireless device would just introduce more complication than necessary.
Sure, but they should still have to be vetted by the Defense Logistics Agency. That includes Quality Assurance overview.
This is an interesting article that makes some good points. Why re-invent the wheel and potentially make something unnecessarily complicated and less reliable when simple items with simple electronics often have less that could go wrong?
I think most people are roasting their choice of game controller. The cheapo Logitech model. Plus if they wanted simple and reliable I would think a wired version would be better, not the wireless model. The military is all the time using them for controlling UAVs and stuff in the field. Nobody really pokes fun because it doesn’t look like the cheap controller you’d hand off to “player 2”.
Maybe, but wired is simpler then wireless and it sounds like everything was done on the cheapest possible route. It’s likely the controller, which was for the camera control(?) had nothing to do with the failure, but does shed some light into the design philosophy.
Im mocking them for going deep underwater in a tin can to look at bunch of rusty metal. Oh and they paid for the pleasure.
Never mind the games controller. They bolt u in from the outside?! I’d never survive the panic attack
Not a big difference since you were planning to be locked in underwater anyway
The submarine seems to have only one button for on/off… Did they think they can connect to iTunes there in case of some boot issues?
Hope they downloaded all the music to play offline
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They could’ve done a 360 and walked away…
If they did a 360, they’d still be walking forward…
Not to worry, just do another 360.
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I’ve seen a video of US Navy using an Xbox controller (arguably for experimental weapon iirc but still). If it just works why overengineer it? I would be more concerned about that hull (scuttlebutt says it was just carbon over titanium frame, not titanium hull overlayed with carbon). However I guess we will have to wait until they find the boat to know the reason for failure.
Exactly. Making the controls yourself isn’t necessarily better, as long as the rudders and engines are engineered properly. Some seperate (emergency) control might be a good idea, in case the Bluetooth fails. Just to get the submarine back to the surface.
The submarine is a one-off experimental one that isn’t certified, hasn’t been used a lot and dives deeper than almost any other submarine. That’s enough alarm bells for me. Whatever they use to control the vessel is irrelevant to me.
Read their blog post about the their subs aren’t classed
https://oceangate.com/news-and-media/blog/2019-0221-why-titan-is-not-classed.html
I ran out of red flags halfway through.
Classing may be effective at filtering out unsatisfactory designers and builders, but the established standards do little to weed out subpar vessel operators
They also still have the old interface system and it was chosen because new personnel found it intuitive. Not because it was the cheapest option.
For the same reasons electric cars that use drive by wire need redundancy. All you need is a stuck switch or a little stick drift and WHAMO you can’t pilot your submarine. There are safety stands for cars more stringent than this. So no, it’s not better because it’s simple. This one of two subs in the world capable of these depths, an Logitech f710 doesn’t cut it here.
I had a Logitech F310 which started malfunctioning, where the left stick’s signal was always halfway to the left. Logitech’s quality isn’t what it used to be. I can imagine something like this happening on the submarine. Question is whether they had a replacement and if they even recognized that the gamepad was malfunctioning.
Fun fact: The Logitech Extreme 3D-stick is used in many professional systems, but those are reliable.
I feel like that’s the different between buying something and repurposing it and buying something and using it as intended.
In other words. Use the right tool for the job. A hammer isn’t a screwdriver just because you can technically hammer in screws.
A crescent wrench, on the other hand…
Ah yes, the adjustable hammer
If it works it wo…
never mind.
That is one of the least concerning parts of this lol, at least Logitech makes quality peripherals. If I had to choose a single manufacturer for input devices, it’d probably be them.
Nottheonion?
And to think a billionaire was on board.
So it’s not a total loss then?
I don’t see any issues with this as long as they had several fail-safes in case of hardware malfunction. US military subs us Xbox controllers because it’s what people are comfortable with.
If they are still alive in it what a nightmare they must be enduring right now, with only like 30hrs of oxygen left.
I feel like they likely lost pressure or some catastrophic failure and have been dead.
Or theogotec controller died and they drifted away and haven’t been found.
Either way it seems really bad for those inside.
I couldn’t imagine being in a cramped space 2.5 miles under the sea with 4 other people waiting for that time. Horrific comes to mind but I don’t think there is an adequate word for it.
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One of the guided cave tours I’ve done has a moment where they shut off the lights and encourage everyone to be as quiet as possible. Not being able to see the hand in front of your face is interesting for a few seconds, probably terrifying for hours.
Much has been made of thos controller thing and I think it’s getting overblown. I can not speak authoritatively on the safety of the sub or the whole operation but I am aware that off the shelf video game controllers are used for a lot of things including even military vehicles. It’s a good controlling device for many things. Yeh it probably looks a little worrying when you step in to something being manoeuvered by a videogame controller, it’s not good vibes or optics but, it’s not itself a reliable signifier of anything really.
Yeah, if they had not used an off the shelf part, then people would make fun of the janky controls with “levers and pulleys.” The thing is a simple control scheme that’s well understood and easy to learn. It gives inputs to an onboard computer which interprets pilot intent and steers the vessel (how ever questionable the vessel’s construction might be).
Game controllers are used for all kinds of robots and vessels (often remote controlled) - so the fact they chose a controller does not weird me out at all.
Do I think they could have gotten a better quality controller? Yea, sure. Do I think maybe a wired controller would have been better? My gut says yes, but I don’t know their decision making process and the engineering challenges with running cables.
According to the BBC, the entire sub is bolted shut from the outside, so even if the vessel surfaces, the occupants cannot escape without outside assistance and could suffocate within the capsule.
This story just keeps getting worse and worse.
