I agree with all that. That’s all fine for a nuanced discussion between those that understand it. This wasn’t that conversation.
I’m not ML either. Staunchly anti ML generally. Because of how much they malign and damage the concept for those of us that are evolutionary and not revolutionary. That and the generally deadly outcomes they bring about as well as the childish behavior. 30 years ago, I would not have understood the distinction between the name applied to them and the concept the name was derived from either. Let alone the marginally good intentions, their roads to social oppression were paved with.
Speaking as a non-ML, reform is more useful as a means of preventing fascism than achieving systemic change. Building up parallel structures from the bottom-up, such as mass Unionization, is revolutionary and achieves more meaningful results locally than electoralism typically does. Electoralism has value, but cannot do much without grassroots organization.
Again, I agree. Though I think it’s important to acknowledge a difference between social revolutions such as unionization where workers organize to have their voice represented against much bigger powers. And Marshall revolution. Of course, when peaceful protests becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable. Which is what happened initially with many of the ML experiments. Russia overthrowing the tzar China overthrowing the emperor etc. the problem is, when the external threat was gone. They turned on themselves.
The problem is, especially where Marxist leninists are concerned. And can be readily viewed through the lens of their use of Engles “on authority” as a crutch. They were ultimately intellectually, morally bereft. Becoming the monsters they said they’d eliminate. Forcefully annexing millions without their consent. And killing many more millions simply for their dissent. Something we must acknowledge if we’re to un-hypocritically call out capitalism and capitalists.
When it comes to winning people over. We should be able to do it with words, not weapons as a rule. If you can’t, either they’re paid not to understand. Or your ideas are lacking.
Alright, now that you’ve elaborated more I’m more inclined to agree.
My policy is more anti-tendency, I simply advocate for people to read as much as possible, touch as much grass as possible, try to organize and contribute to leftist organizational structures, and continue to fight for improving material conditions.
I agree with all that. That’s all fine for a nuanced discussion between those that understand it. This wasn’t that conversation.
I’m not ML either. Staunchly anti ML generally. Because of how much they malign and damage the concept for those of us that are evolutionary and not revolutionary. That and the generally deadly outcomes they bring about as well as the childish behavior. 30 years ago, I would not have understood the distinction between the name applied to them and the concept the name was derived from either. Let alone the marginally good intentions, their roads to social oppression were paved with.
Speaking as a non-ML, reform is more useful as a means of preventing fascism than achieving systemic change. Building up parallel structures from the bottom-up, such as mass Unionization, is revolutionary and achieves more meaningful results locally than electoralism typically does. Electoralism has value, but cannot do much without grassroots organization.
Again, I agree. Though I think it’s important to acknowledge a difference between social revolutions such as unionization where workers organize to have their voice represented against much bigger powers. And Marshall revolution. Of course, when peaceful protests becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable. Which is what happened initially with many of the ML experiments. Russia overthrowing the tzar China overthrowing the emperor etc. the problem is, when the external threat was gone. They turned on themselves.
The problem is, especially where Marxist leninists are concerned. And can be readily viewed through the lens of their use of Engles “on authority” as a crutch. They were ultimately intellectually, morally bereft. Becoming the monsters they said they’d eliminate. Forcefully annexing millions without their consent. And killing many more millions simply for their dissent. Something we must acknowledge if we’re to un-hypocritically call out capitalism and capitalists.
When it comes to winning people over. We should be able to do it with words, not weapons as a rule. If you can’t, either they’re paid not to understand. Or your ideas are lacking.
Alright, now that you’ve elaborated more I’m more inclined to agree.
My policy is more anti-tendency, I simply advocate for people to read as much as possible, touch as much grass as possible, try to organize and contribute to leftist organizational structures, and continue to fight for improving material conditions.
100%. Organization, contribution, and advocacy are vital. Reading is always good. Only second to understanding in all senses.