Are you someone who has left their country of birth to move and settle somewhere else, or who is thinking of doing so in the future? What led you to take that decision, or what is making you consider it? What have your experiences been until now, and what do you expect and hope for in the future?
I was born in Hong Kong and raised with a colonizer mentality, and then moved ‘home’ to the UK shortly after '97. So a bit of a weird perspective. I spent my early life thinking I was born into being an expat, and then had a massive reality check when the people in my ‘home’ country treated me like an immigrant.
I lived there for just over 10 years and then got class consciousness during the 2008 financial crisis, and fucked off back to Hong Kong. This place definitely is home, but I’m still a foreigner here.
I think the identity crisis that happened when I originally moved back to the UK was good for me. Citizenship is a legal matter that is difficult to change, but nationality is a state of mind, and you can divest yourself of it.
I would say to anyone considering migration: don’t be afraid of the social impact it’ll have on your life. Capitalism is descending fast and it’ll start destroying your social comforts soon if it hasn’t already, and when it comes to adjusting to foreign culture I think if you’re here on Lemmygrad you’re well equipped to mentally handle that.
Also, if you’re looking to migrate to China and daunted by the barriers, have a look at Hong Kong and Macau as well because the requirements are very different.
I am. I moved from The Netherlands to Belgium. I did so because of insane housing prices in The Netherlands and also because my girlfriend was studying here.
So far it has been a mixed experience. Belgium has a better leftist base to build on and I’m glad I was able to join our marxist party. I like the little more laid back approach to life over here and the cost of living is somewhat better too.
However, I do get treated like an immigrant. Sure, I’m white and from another (similar) European country, but I’m still a foreigner. I don’t experience over the top racism or anything, but I get the occasional racist remarks. I also struggle to connect with Belgian people. The majority of my friends over here are Dutch migrants as well. I have some Belgian friends but they are considered very extravert by other Belgian people. The average Belgian person is very reserved and if you’re not part of their friend group from kindergarten you have a hard time getting into groups. Making friends or even talking to people is easier in The Netherlands and I miss it sometimes.
Party work made it easier for me to meet new, like minded people. I think the one thing holding me here is the party lol. Eventually I’ll move on to either France or back to The Netherlands. In the meantime I hope to build a better society with our marxist party.
I would do it again, though. It has been a great life experience to start a new life in another country with another culture, and to be treated as a foreigner. It really made me able to put things into perspective and it made me grow as a person.
If you move to France, pick Nantes. It’s as hot as Paris in regards to protests, and they have a Stalingrad Street and Boulevard Allende lol.
Brussels has a Stalingrad district as well. Our party HQ is located there.
I was told to consider The Netherlands as a destination for an easier life. Guess it won’t be the top on my list if housing prices are so bad, haha.
Has anyone in your current party told you if there’s a way you can keep doing useful work while living abroad? I imagine a marxist party could find it useful to keep correspondents abroad.
The biggest madness is gone now due to some lukewarm protective measures taken by the government. But it’s still very pricey to rent.
I guess there would be ways to still be active for the party but what I like about being active righ now is that I’m out on the street a lot. Talking to the people, joining the protests and strikes, making plans for local initiatives etc. There’s some marxist orgs gaining popularity in The Netherlands, though. I hope they will be bigger once I return.
Edit: I read in another comment that you are going to work in healthcare. There’s huge shortages in The Netherlands in this field (thanks, neoliberalism!) so work should be fine if you come here.
I was also considering the Netherlands, or Ireland.
I live in Texas and I live with my grandparents, but due to the ridiculous goings-on and the deeper descent into an even bigger fascist shithole that the U.S. undergoes day by day, I’ve been seriously considering and talking with my family more and more about somehow eventually moving to China.
I’m multiracial Latino and my grandparents are mixed German and Hispanic, and I really hope that one day we can muster enough money/resources to move to China, if staying and fighting for socialism ends up being a lost cause in the U.S. I really hope it won’t be, and I barely know where to even begin planning this, but I consider it more by the day.
The problem is that I’m disabled and my grandparents are in their 70’s, and we barely make enough money to pay the bills, let alone save up to move and buy a home in an entire country through an extremely long process.
For what it’s worth, my grandparents are hardcore communist sympathizers, and while they agree the task is daunting, they haven’t voiced any opposition to moving to China.
Yeah about that… I’m also from the US and poor and my partner is disabled. We’ve looked into emigrating to China, and unfortunately the chance of success is basically zero for your average person.
There are only a few ways to become a permanent resident of China (that I’m aware of):
- Be the spouse of a Chinese national
- Have permanent employment in China
- Be a dependent of a Chinese citizen/perm. resident
- Be an investor
Out of these, #1 is the most feasible for your average person. Of course, there could be a quite few ethical problems in this scenario depending on how it plays out.
#2 requires the person to be deemed highly-specialized and irreplaceable in their sponsored work visa job in order to be considered for permanent employment. These are usually tech, engineering, etc. Basically specialized jobs that are in demand in the US will likely also be in demand in China.
#3 doesn’t apply.
For #4, I think the minimum investment is $500k USD. So that’s a no go for most people.
And on top of this, you have to provide your medical record and I’m not sure how a disability would affect your ability to become a resident.
And of course, in all these cases, this only applies to you personally. I’m not sure if there is a feasible way for your grandparents to emigrate to China.
Also, most of this is pretty similar to most countries I’ve looked into so you’ll continually run into the same problems. I’ve more or less resigned myself to my fate in this fascist shithole.
You don’t necessarily need a permanent resident status. I’m not sure post-covid, but foreigners that emigrated to China usually do that on a work visa that they could get renewed as often as they needed.
The difficult part would be getting a job as China’s workforce is rapidly becoming more educated, but they’re still looking for English teachers (although you need a diploma now, not like in the 90s where they would hire anybody off the streets lol) – it’s probably easier to get into private schools.
Permanent residence status usually opens you up to some more administrative leeway which China is careful about giving out, but compared to other countries, a visa in China will carry you a long way.
I think that’s great advice for individuals. I knew someone that taught English in China after graduating and he loved the experience.
If it were just me I would consider it, but I’m not sure if that would work for my partner as I don’t know if they would be able to provide accommodations for her disability or if it’s too much to deal with for a foreign worker. I’ve looked into teaching English in China before but not this particular aspect of it so I honestly don’t know. Though she has an English degree so she’s def qualified for teaching if they do accommodate.
In cayde6ml’s case, they said that they wanted to move with their grandparents. There’s an age limit for foreign workers (55?) so I don’t think they would be able to use this method.
Trying to relocate with a family, especially when not everyone is able-bodied and/or of working age, can be complicated.
And I know this may be idealism on my part but one reason I’m attracted to permanent residence is that I like the idea of living somewhere I can integrate into and call home. A work visa feels like I’m only visiting until I find somewhere else to drift to.
One of my ideas, even though its very unlikely, is to claim refugee/asylum status in China. Since Latinos and leftists are often persecuted in the U.S., and China might want to improve their PR image in accepting refugees from the barbaric shithole known as Amerikkka.
I’m at a loss for words. I’d also hope if I somehow got a job in China, I could bring my family as dependents.
I have a cocktail of mental disorders that prevent me from holding employment though. I’m not physically disabled and I’m not mentally handicapped, and I could still try to work if I could.
One of my ideas, even though its very unlikely, is to claim refugee/asylum status in China. Since Latinos and leftists are often persecuted in the U.S., and China might want to improve their PR image in accepting refugees from the barbaric shithole known as Amerikkka.
I’m at a loss for words. I’d also hope if I somehow got a job in China, I could bring my family as dependents.
I have a cocktail of mental disorders that prevent me from holding employment though. I’m not physically disabled and I’m not mentally handicapped, and I could still try to work if I could.
Have a look at the requirements for getting work in Hong Kong. Ironically so many expat libs are fleeing here so there might even be more opportunities for foreign workers who aren’t scared of red flags ☭
Do you mean using HK as a stepping stone?
Not sure stepping stone is the right word. It’d be a several years-long step. But healthcare is good here, education is decent and affordable, and (sadly) there’s still a lot of anglophilia that will make life easier.
I would not recommend seeking refugee status in HK (noticed one of your other comments having that idea for CN). If you go that route, go straight to China. HK treats its refugees like shit (although, again, probably not so bad if you’re white).
Yeah, I have no doubt it’d take years.
What could you say about China accepting refugee status?
Good point!
Up until relatively recently I was living as a migrant in the imperial core, I’d done so both for education and for work purposes, and lasted about 4 years before visa complications got me deported. I don’t know if I’m going to be attempting it again anytime soon, since the whole ordeal cost me an arm and a leg, but I’m content to try and get a foothold before I consider anything.
Are you from the periphery then? What was your experience while living in the imperial core?
I’m from the global south, and after living in the core, I came away from it mixed. I met some good people, some bad, but most simply unwelcoming. The “community” aspect of society really isn’t the same, and its seemingly every man for himself. As for living conditions, I must concede that it felt safer than back home, but the expenses were ludicrous, rent and food prices seemingly only go up, and work that pays enough is hard to find, especially if you are not native to the land. Maybe if I had completed more education while I was there I would have managed to secure a decent enough life, but that feeling of community I don’t think will ever be there.
I plan to, because I’m LGBT and my country is very LGBTphobic (to the point of pridefulness - “We will never legalize LGBT” as proudly said by one of our glorious politicians 🙄🙄🙄).
I really wish to settle in China (or really any of the other AES countries, but I think China first preferrably), but I’m very unsure if I’d succeed; given that I’m leaving after my bachelors are over and plus, I’m unsure if I’d find any work or a place to live in China. Unlike most people, I have no qualms learning Mandarin. I already love the East Asian Languages and their Writing Systems.
Though, I’ve already heard from one of my tutors that his friend, who studied in China, was forced to return back to the country the day after he graduated. If I face the same situation, it would make leaving my country a total waste of time and resources.
So unfortunately, as much as I don’t want to, I’m forced to pick European Countries for now. Anglo countries are getting too expensive and fascist; anywhere else and I’d have a really hard time convincing my parents to send me there. They still see the western world as a “rich and prosperous place”.
Poland, I presume?
I have put into consideration the idea of moving to an AES country myself, but the truth is that it’s a rather risky move if you live in the West. If you have higher education it can be an arduous process the one of convalidating your titulation there, and even if you achieve it, depending on your field, you could find yourself living in less than ideal conditions compared to the ones you could have in countries next door to yours: AES countries, particularly China, are doing an outstanding work at developing and granting its peoples better life standards faster than anyone else, but they still have a way to go.
If you are determined however, and especially if China seems to be one place where your profession can grant you a good life, then don’t let anyone stop you. If you still live with your parents, is there a chance you could save enough until you can safely leave for China yourself?
Although I find Poland fascinating for some reason, I’m actually from Bangladesh.
I’m studying CompSci (well my parents forced me to anyway, but I didn’t rebel much because I do have a wish to to develop games and softwares… though honestly I’d probably rather work in Psychology departments tbh), and I feel like tech companies in China are already full of Chinese Workers and they don’t need anymore. Also, you often hear stories about people going to East/Southeast Asian countries and ending up teaching English for a living.
During my freshman years, my (not very prestigious) uni gave us an offer about studying to China and apparently the Government of China would give you job opportunities and a place to live there. I was a lib at the time, so I didn’t take the opportunity. Dunno if that door is still open though. Even if it is, it sounds way too good to be true. Think about it, why would the Chinese Government even bother to give non-PRC citizens so many opportunities/benefits? Yeah they’re a Socialist country but I imagine socialist countries to give precedence to their own citizens first (idk why I think this).
If I do ultimately decide to go to China, I think I might be able to get them on board. I was talking about Central/Latin American countries when I said “I’d have a hard time convincing my parents”. But yeah, maybe I’ll be able to save enough if I combine my allowance and any part-time/freelancing jobs I take (if I do anyway), I’ll need to figure out/calculate the expenses and then some.
I highly recommend you invesitage China more, if you are studying a computer science bachelors now. If you graduate with a bachelors in China, you can only stay to work if you have two years work experience, however if you have a masters you can stay if you find a job no matter your work experience.
In China, if you apply for it in time (before the deadline to apply for the university), there are an abundance of government (central and local) scholarships. Many cover tuition, if you have a decent background they will even give a living stipend. Since you seem interested in learning Chinese, if you can do so seriously and aquire a moderate level in thr language, you can genuinely find a job after graduation.
It is also worth noting that as a forigner you can get into some of the top Chinese universities fairly easily.
I recommend checking out this article for some more details:
https://www.china-admissions.com/blog/4-tips-to-enter-the-chinese-job-market-for-remote-students/
Latin America can be a good place to start a new life, especially in countries like Chile and Uruguay. That being said, I have always had the impression that Computer Science and other tech-related degrees are above average in opening you gates to a good life in other countries. This may be an uninformed opinion however, as I have never asked around much to people who are actually inside that world.
First and foremost it’s all about investigating if, aside from the overall quality of life that people have there, your destination is well-suited for you and how willing it is to accept and treat well specialists of your field of work. I considered moving to Norway per example, until I learned that they have an excess of professionals of my field, so I had to begin looking instead to countries around it.
I originally intended to specialize in Software and Game Development
potentially Web Development too, since I wish to go to that side; but I wonder if I might have to specialize in Data Science and AI instead, because the world seems to go towards that direction when talking about the importance of tech-related degrees. There seems to be some techies in Lemmygrad though, so maybe they know better than us on this subject, so maybe they can chip in with a more informed opinion.How do I start investigating though? How did you learn that Norway had enough professionals from your field? And I’d like to know what you meant by “how willing the country would be to accept and treat well-specialists of my field of work”.
And I’d like to know what you meant by “how willing the country would be to accept and treat well-specialists of my field of work”.
You are ideally searching for two things: that your destination is in need of professionals from your field, and that they are willing to give you a pay high enough that you can live a comfortable life there. There are quite a few instances in which a country needs specialists but they are unwilling to offer a good pay in return.
How do I start investigating though? How did you learn that Norway had enough professionals from your field?
The way that gives you the best results at obtaining information is at the same time the one that is most direct: ask to the people from the place how easy it is to get a job of your field and how is life there working in your field. There are several communities on the internet dedicated to people of a country in particular: in Reddit you can find them easily, and most of them can easily respond to you if you ask in English.
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I am under the impression that use that has been given to the word “expat” is the one of describing the same phenomenon as immigration but without the negative connotation that the word may carry, so I am with you in that.
Originally expats were people who went to another country for their employer, and didn’t plan on staying more than a few years. These jobs were usually transfers and the understanding was that the employee would go back or move somewhere else after a few years.
Nowadays it’s definitely used by white people to avoid the “stigma” of being migrants. They might also think about going back to their home country in some undisclosed time in the future but, who doesn’t really.
For real. People call me an expat while I moved to Belgium unemployed, with no connections other than my gf, no realistic prospects and because of insane housing prices back home. I am a ‘fortune seeker’ the media writes about often. But since I’m white, people throw in the expat comment from time to time. I’m not an expat, I didn’t know what I was going to do when moving here. I’m an immigrant lol.
I moved from a white, English speaking nation to somewhere in South America when I became an adult,bby accident, I went out for a friend’s wedding, got a job offer i couldn’t refuse and stayed.
It’s been almost two decades and I’ve got kids and gotten tired of the lack of basic security, things have gone very down hill since the pandemic.
Planning on migrating to Spain later this year
Not a migrant but I plan to maybe stay in the Netherlands but am toying with moving to a different place in the Netherlands. I’d love to live in like a rural area because I want to be closre to nature. But sadly there’s not that much wild nature in the Netherlands. I could also move to Denmark where my mom is from. I would love to live on one of those small islands like Bogø or Møn
Belgium may be an option if you want nature closer to The Netherlands. Everything under the Brussel - Luik line is woods with small villages. I’ve looked around over there for a similar dream and buying a house in the middle of the woods is pretty cheap even. Plus Wallonia is pretty left wing.
I am myself someone from Spain who’s going to finish a degree in a couple of years and who’s going to see himself working for the state for just a few cents above minimum wage and even taking a few mandatory 24 hour-long shifts every month that straight up go against EU regulations.
I have been considering Sweden as a future destination. I will not deny that the prospect of such change is rather intimidating, although I’m every time more inclined for it as the other alternative becomes an increasingly worse state-sponsored exploitation.
Hi fellow Spanish healthcare trainee!
There’s a total of two (2) of us! Although honestly in a site as small as this one, I would say it’s a rather big coincidence. It’s also hilarious that one can tell it’s healthcare I was talking about just by mentioning 24 hour shifts… Hilariously depressing, that is.
So, what about you? Have you resigned yourself to taking the MIR or are you too searching for more life north of the Pyrenees?
MIR it will be for now… Although my plan is to get a Master’s in Biomedical Engineering and end up designing those cool machines that are used in hospitals. My TFG consists on building an ultrasound machine, which I’m kinda managing to do. Also, anyway, gotta stay for the revolution, right? ;)
Also, anyway, gotta stay for the revolution, right? ;)
Ah, I used to think the same once. But seeing the workload that one has here, I doubt I would even have time to organize at all after the MIR. I already don’t have the time now, so just imagine how things will get later… Besides, ours is an international movement, so if you’re here or there matters little imo.
otra persona que habla español, vamo lokoo
There’s dozens of us! Dozens!
I’m from Canada and would very much like to leave at some point, if only to have a different experience. I’m eligible for an EU passport (with a lot of money and effort) through a grandparent so very much considering going there.
I’ve also stayed in China for a few months and it was amazing. If I actually had valuable skills and could get employment there, and learn Mandarin ofc which I have tried and failed at thus far, I’d certainly consider moving there too. I know they have a lot of restrictions on foreigners settling there, but perhaps in the future that will change.
Anywhere in particular inside the EU?
Italy would be a top choice for sure, anywhere on the Mediterranean would be ideal really. Wouldn’t be opposed to somewhere like Germany or Netherlands either.
Not EU but I’ve also considered trying to get a short term work visa in the UK and living there for a year or two. Honestly for no reason other than I love football and raves and those things are objectively better there than here.
I am currently making plans to leave the Mediterranean myself, so I feel obligated to recommend you to make a lot of research and think about it thoroughly before taking that decision. Coming to the Mediterranean can be a bliss or a nightmare depending on what is it that you do for a living.
Yes that is very fair I appreciate it. My family is from Croatia and I have visited there several times for extended periods. My main concern ofc would be income, if I were to live somewhere like that I’d probably consider trying to get a remote IT job or something.
If income is a concern then the best you can do is to stay away from cities and towns that are big in tourism. AirBnBs and other similar services have made rent prices become ludicrous, to the point they match the ones of large cities in the Northern EU despite having half of the average wage that they have there.
Perhaps moving to Germany if the govt in Poland gets bad enough
Im German and I plan on moving to China (Cuba on second place and Vietnam on third) once I went to University and got at least a Bachelor. My GF who isn’t a commie suffers here too (she’s trans) so she would come with me. However she is little bit scared of China due to propaganda but she doesn’t hate China. She would prefer to go to the other two however. Time will tell how thing develope. Im learning Chinese already and I’m preparing as well as I can to leave.
I’ve recently moved to Japan. Never had a will to move to anywhere other than Singapore, Japan or China. So I’m happy with where I am for now.
How is the experience going for now?
Pretty amazing really, everything is clean, everyone is considerate and language is not that big of an issue at most of the places.
The only thing I’m still adjusting to are the endless non-verbal rules. Can’t do this, can’t do that… the list never ends. But then again, it’s just been like two weeks, it should become second nature soon.
Brazilian, looking to move into Wales to be with my fiance. Sure, the UK isn’t exactly peachy at the moment, but my country isn’t doing that wonderful either (and won’t be in the near-future - even if we had Stalin himself in charge, society is too screwed up for any meaningful change happening soon).
All in all, is mostly out of personal choice, the fact he wouldn’t be insane enough to move here, and the fact I like that he lives in the middle of nowhere - where the nearest residence is fifteen minutes walk away and otherwise it’s only his sheep for company. I found out I liked working the land like him, I find the sheep’s antics hilarious, and all in all, the Welsh countryside is nice enough when it isn’t cold. Hopefully I’ll also learn the trade to be a mechanic, since there’s a garage some 3 km from where he lives and almost everyone who can work there is really old now and the young folks are skipping to Cardiff or Manchester.
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