Most communist parties in Brasil are alligned with imperialism, in part or as a whole. But PCO is grassroots communism, no academic bullshit or consessions for the burguersie. They talk to the people, defend palestine in actions (not just Internet posting), defend the working class etc etc. Lenin would be overhelmed with proud
You don’t know what electoralism is. UP does quite a lot of groundwork and agitation as well, just because they had a candidate up in the elections (which they didnt expect to win) doesnt mean tyey are electoralist.
Don’t try to lecture on my own country, fuck off with that arrogant American shit.
Pcb is undergoing a major crisis. It will probably break at some point in the nearish future. It was an important party in the past, but for reasons i dont know they became an academic party and non-revolutionary to put it lighly. At some point one of their leaders (Mauro Iasi iirc) even suggested taking “leninist” out of their program
Your analysis is based on a glance at a site lmao.
UP is the electoral arm of another larger, radical organization. The point of it is to act as a tool for taking radical rhetoric into the elections and recruiting for the other, more openly ML and revolution-focused groups. It is not a whole thing in itself, just a tool of another larger movement.
It is still a relatively new organization, though. They are ever more consistently showing up amongst organizers of events and lower level institutions, like universities.
I don’t get your point about electoralism. As far as I know, they are a revolutionary party. Disputing elections doesn’t mean they believe in the system. If anything it can serve as propaganda.
And who said that’s all they do? You’re the one claiming that, show proof that is the only thing they do. I don’t know much about UP, but they were actively protesting against the privatization of water in São Paulo and had members being beaten by the police and jailed.
I don’t know, I’m not from UP. When I search on google I get pages from the end of 2023. I get the skepticism, but you are making bold claims about them.
They are not kinda trotskyists, they are trotskyists. They are not conservadores, they are the most progressive party in the country. They are for right to abortion, legalization of drugs, same sex marriage, end of exploitation of woman, etc etc. What they are against (and thats where people get those ideas you pointed) is censorship, and in Brasil you have lots (and if you count the famous ones, all of them) of indentitarian movements infiltrated by CIA agenda points, asking to sendo people to jail amd censor them. A good example is the minister for human rights: Police gets into the slums and kill 30 people (guess their color) he says nothing, but some guy calls a fuebol player a monkey and he asks for the guy to be imprisioned. They defended gay people way before it was cooler, way before CIA took the movement over. Theres a particular case when a researcher found out that a very important person from the black movement (from the colonization time) was gay. People from the Black movement got pissed and asked for him to be censored and even beaten. PCO didnt agree with his thesis but they defended his right to say that and offered to shield him from the aggressions. The point is, their agenda is to bring forth communism, and it includes freedom of speech. When people ask them to betray this objective in order to support some identitarian movement thats asking for censorship, they say no. Does that make them anti lgbt?
Yeah, get out with this shit. Stop trying to push PCO here.
Lots of accusations here and your use of “identitarian movements” and “freedom of speech” with the example you used speaks volumes already. Also what’s with the “defending gay people way before it was cooler”, and "before it was infiltrated by CIA agenda points? This all just smells extremely reactionary.
Freedom of Speech is actually an important freedom and a big blind spot of western leftists is mocking it because they associate it with Musk and Libertarian types in their local areas, but in fact there are many reactionary states and bourgeois dictatorships that harshly censor communists. You have never experienced that level of oppression so it all seems like a joke to you, but go live in Argentina or Egypt or Saudi Arabia for a couple years and maybe you’ll wise up
What monark actually said ia that if nazis wanted to build a party, they should have the right to. Not that he wanted to build it. He even said something like “they will build it anyway, so its better if its not underground”
Childish of you to see this world where things are perfect and colonization isnt part of Brasil’s history
Literally no one is “censoring” you, get a grip. I’m telling you to stop pushing this bullshit, that’s all.
Im not inside your head, point out what you think
Already did on my last comment.
Before it was cool = before usa capitalism decided it was profitable
How so?
You’re literally tossing everything as “identity politics” and comes claiming “free speech absolutism” and that other parties are aligned with imperialism and needs me to point out how that is reactionary? Really? Your condescending way of referring to LGBT people, Black and Indigenous people, Feminists and everyone else you might deem fit into the “identity movement” list, is not enough?
All you’re doing here is tossing all the work and struggle of oppressed people into a nice box that you don’t like just to diminish it, all while not backing any single claim you made.
And the free speech part, like come on, you literally admitted the party stance was to side with the homophobe because “muh freeze peach”, are you for real?
If you think its bullshit, you are free to think so. Now if you ask me to stop talking about it, no
If you think you made your point, i did not understand it.
Movements based on identity are identity movements, im sorry to tell you that. Thats not criticism, thats caracterization. If you think its bad to be called identitary, then its on you. Marxism is about class and class strugle, wich is based on economic positions. They are different things. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they dont
And you didnt read it correctly, or maybe i didnt made it clear enough. PCO disagreed with the researcher, who said Zumbi de Palmares was gay, but stood for his right to say so, even defending him when the black movement wanted him (the researcher) cersored
Still no proof of any of the claims you made, no matter how bold they were.
If you think you made your point, i did not understand it.
My point is that you are are being reactionary, which I stated multiple times already.
Movements based on identity are identity movements, im sorry to tell you that. Thats not criticism, thats caracterization. If you think its bad to be called identitary, then its on you.
Here you come with this bullshit again. What “identity”? It’s always you PCO people that comes with this claim, again diminishing the struggle of the oppressed throughout the decades. You want to oppose the rampant liberalism present in LGBT, Black and Feminist movements? Sure, that’s great, but don’t fucking belittle people and the movements while you’re at it.
Marxism is about class and class strugle, wich is based on economic positions. They are different things. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they dont
And what class do the majority of LGBT, Black and Women are again? What do they fight for, and what discrimination do they face and from whom? Their fight is part of the fight of the proletariat and should be front and center to the liberation of the working class.
And you didnt read it correctly, or maybe i didnt made it clear enough. PCO disagreed with the researcher, who said Zumbi de Palmares was gay, but stood for his right to say so, even defending him when the black movement wanted him (the researcher) cersored
You didn’t make it clear enough on the original comment. It made it seem like PCO stood by the homophobic guy. But since I couldn’t find anything about any of this, besides the claim that Zumbi could be gay, what are the sources for your claims? You’re painting the whole black movement as bad with the way you are wording this.
Brazil has really good communists nowadays 🙌
Most communist parties in Brasil are alligned with imperialism, in part or as a whole. But PCO is grassroots communism, no academic bullshit or consessions for the burguersie. They talk to the people, defend palestine in actions (not just Internet posting), defend the working class etc etc. Lenin would be overhelmed with proud
They’re reactionary trots and politically irrelevant. UP and the PCB are the two decent ones.
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Pcb is undergoing a major crisis. It will probably break at some point in the nearish future. It was an important party in the past, but for reasons i dont know they became an academic party and non-revolutionary to put it lighly. At some point one of their leaders (Mauro Iasi iirc) even suggested taking “leninist” out of their program
Up i really dont know much about
Your analysis is based on a glance at a site lmao.
UP is the electoral arm of another larger, radical organization. The point of it is to act as a tool for taking radical rhetoric into the elections and recruiting for the other, more openly ML and revolution-focused groups. It is not a whole thing in itself, just a tool of another larger movement.
It is still a relatively new organization, though. They are ever more consistently showing up amongst organizers of events and lower level institutions, like universities.
Yeah, don’t know what happened to UP’s website, it looks like there are mentions of Palestine in it, but because it’s down I can’t see what it was. Here’s a news article about them being pro-Palestine and against Israeli occupation.
There’s also this tweet from a thread they did.
I don’t get your point about electoralism. As far as I know, they are a revolutionary party. Disputing elections doesn’t mean they believe in the system. If anything it can serve as propaganda.
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Recently they called the police to censor PCO’s women who tried to talk about palestinian women in the 8th of march. Very leftist!
And who said that’s all they do? You’re the one claiming that, show proof that is the only thing they do. I don’t know much about UP, but they were actively protesting against the privatization of water in São Paulo and had members being beaten by the police and jailed.
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I don’t know, I’m not from UP. When I search on google I get pages from the end of 2023. I get the skepticism, but you are making bold claims about them.
Neither of them sided with Hamas afaik, but if they did its a good surprise
They did though.
https://pcb.org.br/portal2/category/s10-internacional/c91-solidariedade-a-palestina https://www.instagram.com/unidadepopularpa/p/C3dgVYCO4b5/?img_index=1
You could easily find this stuff online
They sided with palestine, but afaik not with hamas
I definitely don’t mean the “communist” parties. But PCO is… kinda Trotskyist no? And kinda conservative, anti-LGBTQ movements and such.
They are not kinda trotskyists, they are trotskyists. They are not conservadores, they are the most progressive party in the country. They are for right to abortion, legalization of drugs, same sex marriage, end of exploitation of woman, etc etc. What they are against (and thats where people get those ideas you pointed) is censorship, and in Brasil you have lots (and if you count the famous ones, all of them) of indentitarian movements infiltrated by CIA agenda points, asking to sendo people to jail amd censor them. A good example is the minister for human rights: Police gets into the slums and kill 30 people (guess their color) he says nothing, but some guy calls a fuebol player a monkey and he asks for the guy to be imprisioned. They defended gay people way before it was cooler, way before CIA took the movement over. Theres a particular case when a researcher found out that a very important person from the black movement (from the colonization time) was gay. People from the Black movement got pissed and asked for him to be censored and even beaten. PCO didnt agree with his thesis but they defended his right to say that and offered to shield him from the aggressions. The point is, their agenda is to bring forth communism, and it includes freedom of speech. When people ask them to betray this objective in order to support some identitarian movement thats asking for censorship, they say no. Does that make them anti lgbt?
Yeah, get out with this shit. Stop trying to push PCO here.
Lots of accusations here and your use of “identitarian movements” and “freedom of speech” with the example you used speaks volumes already. Also what’s with the “defending gay people way before it was cooler”, and "before it was infiltrated by CIA agenda points? This all just smells extremely reactionary.
Freedom of Speech is actually an important freedom and a big blind spot of western leftists is mocking it because they associate it with Musk and Libertarian types in their local areas, but in fact there are many reactionary states and bourgeois dictatorships that harshly censor communists. You have never experienced that level of oppression so it all seems like a joke to you, but go live in Argentina or Egypt or Saudi Arabia for a couple years and maybe you’ll wise up
I should have been more specific and said freedom of speech absolutism. I know being able to speak freely like that is important, but I’m purposefully criticizing PCO here. The same party that defended Monark, a famous Brazilian Youtuber and Podcaster, when he said that there should be a Nazi party in Brazil, not only that but the same party that criticized a samba school for defiling the image of a colonizer, saying that what they did is wrong and against our history.
What monark actually said ia that if nazis wanted to build a party, they should have the right to. Not that he wanted to build it. He even said something like “they will build it anyway, so its better if its not underground”
Childish of you to see this world where things are perfect and colonization isnt part of Brasil’s history
I said I wouldn’t comment again, but damn, you are actually defending Monark, lmao. Ok, I’m just reporting this.
“Leaves so much out of context” and it’s just PCO’s own journal saying exactly what I said in it, sure.
Defend your point, dont try to censor me lol
Im not inside your head, point out what you think
Before it was cool = before usa capitalism decided it was profitable
How so?
Literally no one is “censoring” you, get a grip. I’m telling you to stop pushing this bullshit, that’s all.
Already did on my last comment.
You’re literally tossing everything as “identity politics” and comes claiming “free speech absolutism” and that other parties are aligned with imperialism and needs me to point out how that is reactionary? Really? Your condescending way of referring to LGBT people, Black and Indigenous people, Feminists and everyone else you might deem fit into the “identity movement” list, is not enough?
All you’re doing here is tossing all the work and struggle of oppressed people into a nice box that you don’t like just to diminish it, all while not backing any single claim you made.
And the free speech part, like come on, you literally admitted the party stance was to side with the homophobe because “muh freeze peach”, are you for real?
If you think its bullshit, you are free to think so. Now if you ask me to stop talking about it, no
If you think you made your point, i did not understand it.
Movements based on identity are identity movements, im sorry to tell you that. Thats not criticism, thats caracterization. If you think its bad to be called identitary, then its on you. Marxism is about class and class strugle, wich is based on economic positions. They are different things. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they dont
And you didnt read it correctly, or maybe i didnt made it clear enough. PCO disagreed with the researcher, who said Zumbi de Palmares was gay, but stood for his right to say so, even defending him when the black movement wanted him (the researcher) cersored
Still no proof of any of the claims you made, no matter how bold they were.
My point is that you are are being reactionary, which I stated multiple times already.
Here you come with this bullshit again. What “identity”? It’s always you PCO people that comes with this claim, again diminishing the struggle of the oppressed throughout the decades. You want to oppose the rampant liberalism present in LGBT, Black and Feminist movements? Sure, that’s great, but don’t fucking belittle people and the movements while you’re at it.
And what class do the majority of LGBT, Black and Women are again? What do they fight for, and what discrimination do they face and from whom? Their fight is part of the fight of the proletariat and should be front and center to the liberation of the working class.
You didn’t make it clear enough on the original comment. It made it seem like PCO stood by the homophobic guy. But since I couldn’t find anything about any of this, besides the claim that Zumbi could be gay, what are the sources for your claims? You’re painting the whole black movement as bad with the way you are wording this.
Saying “shut up” isn’t censorship.