Except that I’m not making the same argument that a white supremacist makes, that’s just your deranged reading what my argument.
Every single one of the points in that image could be coming out of a neo-confederate’s mouth. Yes, the North had its problems with exploitation and industrialization, this is well known. But it was nothing close to chattel slavery.
The fact that capitalism outcompeted chattel slavery is itself an indicator that it reduces the costs for the slave owner.
My dude, we fought a fucking war over it. That’s how chattel slavery ended in the US.
Every single one of the points in that image could be coming out of a neo-confederate’s mouth. Yes, the North had its problems with exploitation and industrialization, this is well known. But it was nothing close to chattel slavery.
You seem to be confusing recognizing facts of the situation with intention. Your white supremacist friends see these facts and advocate going back to slavery, while socialists see these facts and see that slavery has not yet been abolished and there’s more work to be done. It’s simply amazing that somebody could have so much trouble understanding this.
My dude, we fought a fucking war over it. That’s how chattel slavery ended in the US.
Chattel slavery was never ended in US. I am amazed just how ignorant you are about your own country. A quintessentially American moment here.
Your white supremacist friends see these facts and advocate going back to slavery
Neo-confederates are primarily of the “Lost Cause” variety, where they diminish the horrors of slavery, make comparisons with the industrialized North, and romanticize the South. I’m not exaggerating when I say that you are snatching words right out of their mouth.
Chattel slavery was never ended in US.
While the prison system arguably allows a form of slavery via the felony exception to the 13th Amendment, it is not chattel slavery since no ownership is involved. There are of course plenty of pieces of history that I could in depth on like Black Codes, debt traps, and terrorism by the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Still not chattel slavery.
I am amazed just how ignorant you are about your own country. A quintessentially American moment here.
Oh teacher, I was unaware that you required a ten page single spaced Times New Roman paper on African American history following the period between Reconstruction and the present day. I’m quite well versed in US history around slavery, thank you.
Neo-confederates are primarily of the “Lost Cause” variety, where they diminish the horrors of slavery, make comparisons with the industrialized North, and romanticize the South. I’m not exaggerating when I say that you are snatching words right out of their mouth.
You’re the only one diminishing the horrors of slavery here. I continue to be amazed by your inability to understand that there are multiple dimensions to any comparison. It is possible see parallels between chattel slavery and capitalism from both the right and left wing perspective. The notion that just because the right uses a particular argument it should be automatically discarded is infantile beyond belief. You’re using reductive logic here.
While the prison system arguably allows a form of slavery via the felony exception to the 13th Amendment, it is not chattel slavery since no ownership is involved. There are of course plenty of pieces of history that I could in depth on like Black Codes, debt traps, and terrorism by the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Still not chattel slavery.
People are being deprived of liberty and being forced to work in order to create profit for the people who own the prisons. This is literal slavery, and the fact that there is no ownership involved on paper is just a formality so people like you can claim this is somehow completely different.
Oh teacher, I was unaware that you required a ten page single spaced Times New Roman paper on African American history following the period between Reconstruction and the present day. I’m quite well versed in US history around slavery, thank you.
Oh so just knowingly whitewashing the things your regime does here.
I’m not whitewashing the current state of things as being perfect. If that wasn’t already obvious from our numerous interactions, I don’t know what to tell you. Chattel slavery was incredibly brutal on a systemic level, far beyond anything present in the US today. Yes, you could cherrypick parallels and try to cast them as the current system being worse, like this meme does. You would just be utterly wrong to the point where most Black people in the US would find this meme incredibly offensive.
My argument was that aspects of capitalist exploitation are in fact worse. Both systems are horrific in their own way. What the meme focuses on in particular is that the reason capitalism outcompeted chattel slavery is because it reduces the operating costs for the business. Meanwhile, you went on a weird tangent here.
Then all I can say is you badly need to go back to your history books on slavery (and the post-Reconstruction era for that matter) before you keep ragging on about how ignorant I am about my own country.
Spends money on purchasing slaves vs. Can exchange one “slave” (worker) for another: This leaves out the horrors of the slave trade, both transatlantic and domestic. Families were routinely split apart. Slave auctions were dehumanizing. Enslaved people were entirely at the mercy of their enslavers. The states would help track down escaped slaves, and the federal government attempted to force Northern states to cooperate via the Fugitive Slave Act. I won’t whitewash the poor balance in employer-employee relationships, but it’s offensive to put it in the same league. Workers can leave. They can move companies, cities, states, or countries. Workers are not forced to leave their family, at least not at a level that is utterly non-negotiable.
Pays for the total upkeep of the slaves: Yeah, in the same way you keep up a piece of machinery. If it was no longer profitable to pay for the “upkeep” of an enslaved person because of age or disability, they were subject to being sold off for medical experiments, left in the woods to die, etc. Quality health care was not in the cards.
If a slave gets sick it’s [the enslaver’s] problem: Only if it interfered with work. And if you’re making a comparison with modern capitalism, workplace injuries are very much the employer’s problem because of worker’s compensation. Likewise health care insurance is commonly employer provided. There are also pieces of the social safety net, with are partially paid for by businesses in various ways.
Slaves come to work on their own: I see no downside to people having their own homes instead of whatever half-assed shack their enslaver provides.
Only has to pay for 8 hours of their lives: That other 16 hours was a hard won victory by unions. Going over 8 means paying overtime. Slaves didn’t get overtime, but they did get over 8 hours of work.
Every single one of the points in that image could be coming out of a neo-confederate’s mouth. Yes, the North had its problems with exploitation and industrialization, this is well known. But it was nothing close to chattel slavery.
My dude, we fought a fucking war over it. That’s how chattel slavery ended in the US.
You seem to be confusing recognizing facts of the situation with intention. Your white supremacist friends see these facts and advocate going back to slavery, while socialists see these facts and see that slavery has not yet been abolished and there’s more work to be done. It’s simply amazing that somebody could have so much trouble understanding this.
Chattel slavery was never ended in US. I am amazed just how ignorant you are about your own country. A quintessentially American moment here.
Neo-confederates are primarily of the “Lost Cause” variety, where they diminish the horrors of slavery, make comparisons with the industrialized North, and romanticize the South. I’m not exaggerating when I say that you are snatching words right out of their mouth.
While the prison system arguably allows a form of slavery via the felony exception to the 13th Amendment, it is not chattel slavery since no ownership is involved. There are of course plenty of pieces of history that I could in depth on like Black Codes, debt traps, and terrorism by the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Still not chattel slavery.
Oh teacher, I was unaware that you required a ten page single spaced Times New Roman paper on African American history following the period between Reconstruction and the present day. I’m quite well versed in US history around slavery, thank you.
You’re the only one diminishing the horrors of slavery here. I continue to be amazed by your inability to understand that there are multiple dimensions to any comparison. It is possible see parallels between chattel slavery and capitalism from both the right and left wing perspective. The notion that just because the right uses a particular argument it should be automatically discarded is infantile beyond belief. You’re using reductive logic here.
People are being deprived of liberty and being forced to work in order to create profit for the people who own the prisons. This is literal slavery, and the fact that there is no ownership involved on paper is just a formality so people like you can claim this is somehow completely different.
Oh so just knowingly whitewashing the things your regime does here.
I’m not whitewashing the current state of things as being perfect. If that wasn’t already obvious from our numerous interactions, I don’t know what to tell you. Chattel slavery was incredibly brutal on a systemic level, far beyond anything present in the US today. Yes, you could cherrypick parallels and try to cast them as the current system being worse, like this meme does. You would just be utterly wrong to the point where most Black people in the US would find this meme incredibly offensive.
My argument was that aspects of capitalist exploitation are in fact worse. Both systems are horrific in their own way. What the meme focuses on in particular is that the reason capitalism outcompeted chattel slavery is because it reduces the operating costs for the business. Meanwhile, you went on a weird tangent here.
Then all I can say is you badly need to go back to your history books on slavery (and the post-Reconstruction era for that matter) before you keep ragging on about how ignorant I am about my own country.
Why don’t you address what specifically you disagree with in the statement you’re replying to there buddy.