This is so convoluted by goebbels propaganda and the west’s eagerness to repeat nazi propaganda. Does anyone have any good sources on it? I don’t really trust goebbels or the liberals that repeat what he said.

      • @carpe_modo@lemmygrad.mlOP
        8•1 year ago

        In fact, recent archaeological discoveries(2011) have confirmed that the bullets and the bodies are from no earlier than 1941. It wasn’t until 1943(the Nazis had captured it in the first half of 1941) that the massacre was unearthed. This just so happened to provide Goebbels the perfect propaganda to push during the destruction of the Warsaw ghetto.

        https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ojs.library.ubc.ca/index.php/clogic/article/download/193976/190041/227652&ved=2ahUKEwjB3c6rmdL7AhUIkWoFHestC-gQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1qfJn-BzgLimlYaVMy0k8X

            • Seanchaí (she/her)
              14•1 year ago

              Did you actually read this?

              “Sites [sic] no sources”

              Davis, Jerome. Behind Soviet Power. New York, N. Y.: The Readers’ Press, Inc., c1946, p. 99

              Volkogonov, Dmitri. Stalin: Triumph and Tragedy. New York: Grove Weidenfeld, 1991, p. 360

              Nekrich and Heller. Utopia in Power. New York: Summit Books, c1986, p. 404

              New York Times, June 29, 1945 p. 2

              Lucas and Ukas. Trans. and Ed. Secret Documents. Toronto, Canada: Northstar Compass, 1996, p. 197-198

              And there’s more. The page is literally a collection of excerpts, nothing here is written by a single person. It is entirely a compilation of sources.

              Only the first one is written in first person, as it is a personal accounting of events. And the fact that something is “written in first person” is not proof that it is inferior, that’s a nonsense western academic convention that ignores lived experience as a credible source of information.

              I’m not making a statement about Katyn one way or another, but it’s pretty ridiculous for you to cast away an entire website of sources without having read literally any of it, then claiming that it’s all some personal blog with no sources, thus proving that you haven’t read any of it.

                • Seanchaí (she/her)
                  8•1 year ago

                  I don’t know why you’re saying this to me. I’m not making an argument one way or the other about Katyn, as I said already.

                  I was just letting you know how completely and abjectly wrong your statements about that website were. It did cite sources, and one of them being in first person isn’t proof of credibility or lack thereof.

                  That was the sum total of my comment.

                  I truly don’t care to read what you wrote about Katyn because I’m not interested in the topic one way or the other. Just thought that you, as a person engaged in the conversation, should know that your dismissal of the website was predicated on a complete misunderstanding of the very website you were dismissing. As someone who does seem to be interested in engaging in this topic, you should at least engage based on the realities of what people are linking to you instead of your ill-informed preconceptions. If you’d like to explore whether the sources linked are accurate or reputable, that’s fine, but you should at least read them before making false claims.

                  You should also cut the whole “use your brain” and “just think” rhetoric, I promise you you’re not intellectually superior and being condescending in your comments isn’t going to win you anything.

                • @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
                  6•1 year ago

                  Did you even read any articles? I provided plenty in other post. All your questions are answered there.

                  Germany had neither the capabilities or motive.

                  Seriou-fucking-sly? No capabilities? Did you missed every other nazi mass murder in the war? Killing 20000 people was completely routinely for them. No motives? It was like killing four birds with one stone: they were killing polish officials anyway in occupied territories since the war started, they were in the middle of Barbarossa so they just killed them and moved, it provided them with one of the best anticommunist pieces ever, and allowed - in the absolutely critical time - to sow political discord between polish London government supported by British and USSR.

                  insane effort

                  What insane effort? They killed the people literally as quick stop, just one of many massacres, not even bothering to set up any different methods than usual, then send some bogus commission and accused their enemies of their own war crime. Neither of that was any much effort.

        • @cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
          9•1 year ago

          A United Nations report found German shell-casings and tried extremely hard to twist the scenario into a “idk both sides are equally likely” barest modicrum of false equivalence and guessing.

          I don’t buy that in the recently industrialized Soviet Union, Soviet soldiers would be forced to scrounge for nazi guns.