I have read in the privacy community that facial recognition done in public places is considered problematic. Not knowing what is considered the crux of the matter, I have to ask about some facial and behavioral recognition use cases here, and whether they are a problem or not

  • Digital signage on roads, cameras in stores, etc. read pedestrians’ faces, movements, etc. and infer attributes for marketing purposes (sometimes the inferred attributes are stored as is, sometimes they are stored as statistics and the attributes themselves are removed)
  • Public transit agencies can share police databases to identify and track individuals with arrest records
  • Public agencies use facial and behavioral recognition to determine and track suspicious persons. The information read is stored.
  • @groceansongOP
    1•2 years ago

    Who is developing the algorithms that determines suspicious behavior? Who is reviewing those algorithms to determine if any bias is in the algorithms, Who is reviewing those algorithms to determine if any bias is in the algorithms, regardless of whether the bias is intentional or not? …

    Only companies and developers would know the details. Of course they are auditing, and if you ask, you will probably get some kind of response. On the other hand, they may not tell you for security reasons.

    Are people made aware that they’re being recorded or the level of recording (eg - facial recognition vs person detection)?

    That is put up as a poster, but some people may not know. If you want to use that service, you have no choice but to accept it.

    This goes back to the point I was making previously - it’s really hard to leave gihr home and not be recorded already. You’ll likely never know where you’re being recorded, who is recording you, or what will be done with your recordings. We’re losing the little privacy we do have left outside our homes and there’s not much we can do about it.

    If we’re going to lose them sooner or later, wouldn’t it be better to make use of them in order to achieve a more prosperous society?

    The state also justifies the arbitrary harvesting and storage of biometric information by claiming in court that "it is the natural authority of the state to store information about its citizens. If this is followed, there is already no privacy at all in the public sphere. And large corporations will follow the state’s argument and say that it is their natural right to supplement their customers’ information.

    I guess my country is trying to figure out how to enrich our society in the future by acknowledging that privacy does not exist. And shouldn’t we?

    Having facial recognition cameras may not seem too repressive, but when it starts to change their behavior because they don’t want to be identified at a certain park/store/corner/etc., then that mental/emotional barrier to entry is just as hard to overcome as a physical wall/gate.

    This is a statement I heard from an acquaintance of mine, but I’d like to ask it here as well:

    Disney uses three-point fingerprint information, wristband, and facial recognition technology to identify individuals in its facilities with sufficient probability. In other words, these personal identification technologies are legal and accepted in the world-famous land of dreams. Furthermore, the technologies used by companies and governments are similar. So why prohibit companies, stores, or countries from using those technologies? What makes them different from Disney?

    We enjoy living in this country as much as we enjoy the attractions at Disney, don’t we? There is absolutely nothing wrong with those technologies. It provides convenience, efficiency, security, and makes people and businesses happy.

    • @rhymepurple
      1•2 years ago

      Only companies and developers would know the details. Of course they are auditing, and if you ask, you will probably get some kind of response. On the other hand, they may not tell you for security reasons.

      Do you know for sure the algorithms are audited? Has a verified 3rd party publicly reported their findings? A government or company saying “we were audited - trust us” holds as much credibility as them saying “we’re the best government/company in the world - trust us”. The purpose of having auditors is to provide assurance to a group of people (eg - shareholders, potential investors, citizens, etc.) without publicly exposing trade secrets, security details, or other sensitive data. If a government/company takes transparency and ethics among other things seriously, they would regularly have their algorithms audited and the findings would be made available ins relevant way.

      If we’re going to lose them sooner or later, wouldn’t it be better to make use of them in order to achieve a more prosperous society?

      I guess my country is trying to figure out how to enrich our society in the future by acknowledging that privacy does not exist. And shouldn’t we?

      No - absolutely not. If we had this mindset for every social issue, we would never have progressed as a society. If the government were to come and take each citizens possessions every few weeks, would you just say “well, I trust they’re making better use of my possessions than I would have. It’s surely going to benefit my society better if they have it than if I did. I might as well might head down to the townhall each week and give them whatever I acquired that week to make it easier for them.” I’m sure it may sound a bit silly or hyperbolic, so maybe think of a people who feel their taxes/garnishments/tithes/etc. may be a little too high - same principal. Now re-read that but replace “possessions” with “privacy” because that is exactly what we’re doing. People may be OK with things because they don’t understand what is going on. Following this analogy, as soon as people find out that their possessions are being misused, people are going to be very upset. Likewise, once they realize their privacy is being abused, they’ll be very upset. It may not be this year or this decade, but continuing down the “well privacy doesn’t exist, so let’s keep abusing people’s privacy further” path will eventually lead to a very upset population.

      The state also justifies the arbitrary harvesting and storage of biometric information by claiming in court that "it is the natural authority of the state to store information about its citizens. If this is followed, there is already no privacy at all in the public sphere. And large corporations will follow the state’s argument and say that it is their natural right to supplement their customers’ information.

      Just because the government is doing/has been doing this doesn’t make it right. However, your government must have restrictions to this, right? For example, they’re likely not doing annual home inspections to look for signs oof"resistance". If they are, do you genuinely think people are OK with this? If they’re not doing that, do you think people would openly and willingly allow and encourage that behavior?

      Same for the Disney comment. Find me a privacy rights activist who is OK with Disney checking fingerprint, but not small businesses doing something similar. I imagine you’ll have a very hard time doing so. I hope this is outlawed and/or Disney (and any other company that unnecessarily collects biometric information) stops this behavior because Disney most certainly does NOT need anyone’s fongerpirnts in order to operate their theme park.