2022-03-14 source 1 - - source 2 - - source 3 - - source 4

I don’t love Putin, but reality has nothing to do with what you love or hate. I understand how the world financial system works, I understand how Russian economy works, and that’s what’s going to decide how the events unfold. Meanwhile, you built your whole identity around hating Russia and you’ve invented a reality for yourself where Russia is some incompetent petrostate that’s going to collapse.

@Julianus
link
fedilink
01Y

I don’t hate Russia at all. I admire the Russian people. It’s Putin that’s created a mafia state, rewarding corruption that favors him, poisoning his rivals, and perverted the truth. Imagine what Russia could be with Kasparov at the helm. It’s like what could the CCCP have been able to accomplish without Stalin purging anyone with a mind of their own?

Imagine thinking Kasparov, who is literally an insane person, should be at the helm of anything. Putin is terrible, but he is a direct result of the western “help” Russia received after USSR collapsed. When US advisors came in and gave us Yeltsin under whom the country was robbed and people were literally starving. The reason Putin is in power is because he managed to reign that in and create some stability. As shitty as Putin is, he’s no worse than the kleptocrats running the west. Of course, lacking any capacity of self reflection you can’t see that.

Likewise, Stalin was a product of USSR being under constant aggression from the west from the day it was formed. In times of hardship you inevitably get people like Putin and Stalin at the helm.

Westerners had a great opportunity to integrate Russia into the west back in the 90s, instead they chose to try and fuck Russia over. Now Europe has a hostile nuclear power on its border that’s becoming increasingly more belligerent.

@Julianus
link
fedilink
-11Y

Finally, a crack of truth! This might be the first thing we’ve ever agreed on. Of course, it was cynical realpolitik from the west that let the Russia wallow into mafia state it is now. America has it’s own oligarchy to deal with. And the world has much larger problems to grapple with beyond that. It annoys me that Putin is acting up now, distracting us from addressing the issues that will define this century.

Putin wouldn’t be acting up now or even be in power if the west didn’t continue to create pressures that selected for somebody like Putin to take charge. And there were plenty of opportunities to deescalate the situation in Ukraine. NATO chose not to engage with Russia in good faith, and this is the result.

Continuing to treat Russia with belligerence will only continue making the situation worse. People in the west are convinced that Russian economy is going to collapse any day now, but just for the sake of the argument consider if that doesn’t happen. Unless one side decides to act like adults and try to resolve this situation without adding more fuel to the fire then we’re going to have a third world war, and humanity will possibly go extinct. These are the stakes.

@Julianus
link
fedilink
01Y

You misunderstand. It’s not belligerence. It’s contempt. Putin imagines a much stronger hand than he actually has. Visions of the glorious CCCP still dance in his head. But that’s long gone. If WW3 spills out of this, it’s because the real superpowers of the world, not Russia, get dragged into this.

Call it what you like, the west chose to have an adversarial relationship with USSR and later with Russia. The contempt stems from the west thinking that it has some sort of superiority, and Russians don’t feel that they’re inferior. Meanwhile, Russia is literally one of the biggest military superpowers in the world. The only country with a bigger military is the US and it’s not able to deploy its whole military in European theatre the way Russia can. Of course, WW3 could easily lead to a nuclear exchange between Russia and the US at which point it’s the end of humanity. People such as yourself continue to drive the world towards this scenario.

@Julianus
link
fedilink
01Y

No, no, no! Adversarial implies a match among equals. Look at France. They actually stood up to the US. And got shut out of middle east oil every time. So they took their lumps and went nuclear. Rather than cry about American hegemony, they formed their own economic block, for reals. Do they go around trying to destabilize the world with deceit in order to make themselves look bigger? No! They did the hard work and paid their dues to remain free and proud. Russia could do that, if they abandon their strategy of trying to win by cheating. You cannot deepfake success.

No, no, no! Adversarial implies a match among equals. Look at France.

You’re right, Europe is not equal to Russia in any way. Russia has a far bigger territory, more natural resources, food security, large scale industrialization, and a huge military. You have a caricature of Russia in your head that’s completely divorced from reality. I implore you to actually read up on Russia and educate yourself.

They actually stood up to the US.

LMAO, if they stood up to the US then the war in Ukraine would not have happened.

Rather than cry about American hegemony, they formed their own economic block, for reals.

EU is not an independent economic bloc, and it’s at best a secondary power. Now, EU jumped on the grenade because US told them to and will suffer the most from the sanctions. Meanwhile, US will shore up its economy by forcing EU to buy things they bought from Russia from US at a big markup. Furthermore, being cut off from the Russian energy supply will lead to deindustrialization in Europe making it further dependent on US. Europe is by far the biggest loser in all this, and European governments acted against the interests of their own people because US told them to. Here educate yourself on how the world actually works https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/02/11/americas-real-adversaries-are-its-european-and-other-allies/

Do they go around trying to destabilize the world with deceit in order to make themselves look bigger?

Yeah they do but. Go read up on Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and all the African countries France fucked up. You don’t even know your own history. Pathetic.

They did the hard work and paid their dues to remain free and proud.

That’s an interesting euphemism for saying brutally exploited third world countries robbing them of their resources. This is the “hard work” you’re talking about https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/02/child-labour-on-nestle-farms-chocolate-giants-problems-continue

Russia could do that, if they abandon their strategy of trying to win by cheating. You cannot deepfake success.

Cheating at what exactly? Russia reindustrialized since 2014 and became largely self sufficient through their hard work. Meanwhile, the west continues to subjugate countries around the globe and use slave labor to prop up its lifestyle.

World News
!worldnews
Create a post

News from around the world!

Rules:

  • Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc

  • No NSFW content

  • No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc

  • 1 user online
  • 8 users / day
  • 25 users / week
  • 68 users / month
  • 239 users / 6 months
  • 2.89K subscribers
  • 3.71K Posts
  • 8.51K Comments
  • Modlog