How about a thought experiment. There are protests going on in Moscow, so what if Ukraine sends a “peacekeeping” mission to Moscow and two days after they capture the city there is a referendum for Moscow to become a part of Ukraine. Would you say this was a legitimate referendum, or an obviously hostile takeover?
Crimea used to be a part of the Ottoman empire, and there is someone who speaks turkish over there, so clearly it belongs to turkey…
My question is: when has the west ever engaged with Russia in good faith. Point me to a single example.
There are tons of examples actually… how about the ISS? That’s been orbiting for over 20 years, what has the US done in bad faith up there?
How about a thought experiment. There are protests going on in Moscow, so what if Ukraine sends a “peacekeeping” mission to Moscow and two days after they capture the city there is a referendum for Moscow to become a part of Ukraine.
Wow that’s a fascinating thought experiment. Fortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with Crimea. Maybe read up on the subject before talking about it?
By the way, you still haven’t answered my question of why Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that bans the use of Russian language. I’m really curious to see the mental gymnastics you’re going to use to explain that.
There are tons of examples actually… how about the ISS? That’s been orbiting for over 20 years, what has the US done in bad faith up there?
How is ISS an example of appeasing Putin, do enlighten me. This is the most deranged thing you’ve said here so far.
why Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that bans the use of Russian language.
everyone knows the only reason for russias invasion was to secure the naval base; stop pretending otherwise.
I don’t support that law
the law doesn’t “ban russian language” it requires the people to know ukrainian, for politicians to make official statements in ukrainian, and for most tv and books to be in ukrainian.
one reason there were so many russians there is they moved there to work at the russian naval base…
none of this justifies a hostile takeover…
How is ISS an example of appeasing Putin
It’s not, its an example of a good-faith deal between the two nations that has stood the test of time. this is what you asked for remember? “My question is: when has the west ever engaged with Russia in good faith. Point me to a single example.”
When I say “placating putin” I mean “when has putin broken the terms of a deal and the other party let it slide and it hasn’t resulted in further violations of the terms?”
Please just answer the question and stop deflecting.
You still haven’t explained to me why a bunch of Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that banned the use of Russian language. Please explain this. The reason there are 95% Russian in Crimea is because it was part of Russia until 1970. If you knew anything about Russia or Ukraine you’d know this.
It’s not
You didn’t answer my question then. Stop deflecting and answer it. You’re asking me when appeasement has worked, but you can’t actually name a single instance of appeasement. Intellectual honesty isn’t your strong point I see.
You’re asking me when appeasement has worked, but you can’t actually name a single instance of appeasement. Intellectual honesty isn’t your strong point I see.
I started this thread by listing two examples of appeasement:
Ukraine placated putin after he invaded donbass, then they placated him after he invaded crimea. what makes you think that placating putin now will have any positive effects?
youre the one whos being intellectually dishonest… you have failed to answer my question and are deflecting…
why a bunch of Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that banned the use of Russian language.
They wouldn’t, but how is that a justification for invasion? answer: its not! its just an excuse for the real reason: wanting to secure the naval base…
I started this thread by listing two examples of appeasement:
You have yet to list a single instance of actual appeasement.
youre the one whos being intellectually dishonest… you have failed to answer my question and are deflecting…
Once again, you’ve claimed that appeasement hasn’t worked while failing provide a single instance of appeasement. I’ll let the people reading this thread figure out who’s being intellectually dishonest here.
They wouldn’t, but how is that a justification for invasion? answer: its not! its just an excuse for the real reason: wanting to secure the naval base…
You’re saying people don’t have the right to self determination? Russian people in Crimea should be oppressed by a hostile government the the west put in that suppresses their culture and language?
Once again, you’ve claimed that appeasement hasn’t worked while failing provide a single instance of appeasement.
How is not going to war with Russia after they invaded Crimea not appeasement?
Maybe you can point to a treaty that says “unless there are people who speak russian there”
You’re saying people don’t have the right to self determination? Russian people in Crimea should be oppressed by a hostile government the the west put in that suppresses their culture and language?
You’re assuming people who speak Russian want to be ruled by putin. I speak spanish but im not asking spain to invade the US…
Invading crimea stripped the crimeans of their right to self-determination… Putin is the dictator who is suppressing their culture…
How is not going to war with Russia after they invaded Crimea not appeasement?
Absolutely hilarious that you think the west was in a position to got to war with Russia.
You’re assuming people who speak Russian want to be ruled by putin. I speak spanish but im not asking spain to invade the US…
You’re seriously arguing that Russians in Crimea want to be ruled by Ukrainian extremists who literally outlawed Russian language. The fact that you won’t even acknowledge how absurd that position is says everything I need to know about you.
Absolutely hilarious that you think the west was in a position to got to war with Russia.
Russia had a lot easier of a time Invading Crimea than it has invading Kyiv, so that would seem to suggest that Ukraine let them have it instead of fighting. this is appeasement and placation.
You’re seriously arguing that Russians in Crimea want to be ruled by Ukrainian extremists who literally outlawed Russian language.
Russian was not “outlawed”, people just had to learn Ukrainian. I said I don’t agree with this law, but maintain its not a justification for invasion. Currently tartars of turkish decent are in prison for disagreeing with putin, and crimea used to be a part of the ottoman empire, so by your own logic, turkey has justification to invade. this is absurd, and clearly an insufficient justification for war.
They were not bring ruled by extremists. It seems to me that Crimea is a relatively ethnically diverse region, and in a democracy not everyone gets exactly what they want. IDK how legitimate the democracy in Crimea was, but I know putin, who has executed all of his political opponents, can not be trusted to run an election. The idea that the people of crimea voted to be ruled by putin laughably absurd.
How about a thought experiment. There are protests going on in Moscow, so what if Ukraine sends a “peacekeeping” mission to Moscow and two days after they capture the city there is a referendum for Moscow to become a part of Ukraine. Would you say this was a legitimate referendum, or an obviously hostile takeover?
Crimea used to be a part of the Ottoman empire, and there is someone who speaks turkish over there, so clearly it belongs to turkey…
There are tons of examples actually… how about the ISS? That’s been orbiting for over 20 years, what has the US done in bad faith up there?
your turn now, when has placating putin worked?
Wow that’s a fascinating thought experiment. Fortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with Crimea. Maybe read up on the subject before talking about it?
By the way, you still haven’t answered my question of why Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that bans the use of Russian language. I’m really curious to see the mental gymnastics you’re going to use to explain that.
How is ISS an example of appeasing Putin, do enlighten me. This is the most deranged thing you’ve said here so far.
It’s not, its an example of a good-faith deal between the two nations that has stood the test of time. this is what you asked for remember? “My question is: when has the west ever engaged with Russia in good faith. Point me to a single example.”
When I say “placating putin” I mean “when has putin broken the terms of a deal and the other party let it slide and it hasn’t resulted in further violations of the terms?”
Please just answer the question and stop deflecting.
You still haven’t explained to me why a bunch of Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that banned the use of Russian language. Please explain this. The reason there are 95% Russian in Crimea is because it was part of Russia until 1970. If you knew anything about Russia or Ukraine you’d know this.
You didn’t answer my question then. Stop deflecting and answer it. You’re asking me when appeasement has worked, but you can’t actually name a single instance of appeasement. Intellectual honesty isn’t your strong point I see.
I started this thread by listing two examples of appeasement:
youre the one whos being intellectually dishonest… you have failed to answer my question and are deflecting…
They wouldn’t, but how is that a justification for invasion? answer: its not! its just an excuse for the real reason: wanting to secure the naval base…
You have yet to list a single instance of actual appeasement.
Once again, you’ve claimed that appeasement hasn’t worked while failing provide a single instance of appeasement. I’ll let the people reading this thread figure out who’s being intellectually dishonest here.
You’re saying people don’t have the right to self determination? Russian people in Crimea should be oppressed by a hostile government the the west put in that suppresses their culture and language?
How is not going to war with Russia after they invaded Crimea not appeasement?
Maybe you can point to a treaty that says “unless there are people who speak russian there”
You’re assuming people who speak Russian want to be ruled by putin. I speak spanish but im not asking spain to invade the US…
Invading crimea stripped the crimeans of their right to self-determination… Putin is the dictator who is suppressing their culture…
Absolutely hilarious that you think the west was in a position to got to war with Russia.
You’re seriously arguing that Russians in Crimea want to be ruled by Ukrainian extremists who literally outlawed Russian language. The fact that you won’t even acknowledge how absurd that position is says everything I need to know about you.
Russia had a lot easier of a time Invading Crimea than it has invading Kyiv, so that would seem to suggest that Ukraine let them have it instead of fighting. this is appeasement and placation.