• makingStuffForFun
    812·
    6 months ago

    Anyone who needs accessibility is screwed as Wayland takes over. Let’s hope we can still choose for another say 40 years. Then, I’ll be done, and Wayland can rule. Pity those who will still need accessibility options though.

    • theshatterstone54@feddit.uk
      61·
      6 months ago

      Are you serious? Every sane desktop is working on accessibility. I recently heard from System76 that they’re putting in the effort for COSMIC, we have GNOME focusing a portion of that €1 million they got from Germany, on accessibility (last I heard, they’re working on cross-desktop solutions). Now, I don’t remember hearing much from Plasma on accessibility, but I think it’s fair to assume they’re also working on it.

      • makingStuffForFun
        43·
        6 months ago

        User skullgiver provides an excellent answer as to why. It’s a shame, but it’s a reality that most apps won’t expose themselves properly, and hence accessibility is over in Wayland. Despite their excellent efforts.

        • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space
          5·
          6 months ago

          GNOME is working on a new Accessibility Toolkit for all desktops, funded by the $1M from STF. It’s intended to make accessibility better on Wayland.

          Watch thisweek.gnome.org for updates on accessibility; there’s usually one. Here’s a very recent article about how it’s going from LWN: https://lwn.net/Articles/971541/

          “At this point, some of you might be thinking ‘show me the code’”, he said. The audience murmured its agreement. Rather than linking to all of the repositories, he provided links to the prototypes for Orca and GTK AccessKit integration. Campbell said these would be the best way to start exploring the stack.

          If all goes well, Newton would not merely provide a better version of existing functionality, it would open up new possibilities. Campbell was running out of time, but he quickly described scenarios of allowing accessible remote-desktop sessions even when the remote machine had no assistive technologies running. He also said it might be possible to provide accessible screenshots and screencasts using Newton, because the accessibility trees could just be bundled with the image or pushed along with the screencast.

          The conclusion, he said, was that the project could provide “the overhaul that I think that accessibility in free desktop environments has needed for a little while now”. Even more, “we can advance the state-of-the-art not just compared to what we already have in free desktops like GNOME”, but even compared to proprietary platforms.

          He gave thanks to the Sovereign Tech Fund for funding his work through GNOME, and to the GNOME Foundation for coordinating the work.

          There was not much time for questions, but I managed to sneak one in to ask about the timeline for this work to be available to users. Campbell said that he was unsure, but it was unlikely it would be ready in time for GNOME 47 later this year. It might be ready in time for GNOME 48, but “I can’t make any promises”. He pointed out that his current contract ends in June, and plans to make as much progress as possible before it ends. Beyond that, “we’ll see what happens”.

          Also: https://github.com/AccessKit/accesskit

            • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space
              31·
              6 months ago

              My understanding is that AccessKit is an entirely separate thing to the portal.

              Unfortunately, for several things, your choices are X, which is broken by design and few developers QA their software for anymore, or Wayland, which works pretty well in many areas, but where several important (or even basic) features are quagmired by bike shedding. But things are improving really quickly, and part of that is everyone shifting focus to Wayland.

              I recently tried to navigate my GNOME desktop via screen reader and did not enjoy the experience. If I ever need it, I hope it works properly by that point…

              At least for me, X is a worse experience on every computer I own (including the NVIDIA one), which is why I use Wayland. Neither is problem-free. I’m fortunate enough not to depend on accessibility features; perhaps my opinion would be different then.

        • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
          2·
          6 months ago

          Ah ok. Thank you for the detailed answer.

          I really don’t get the whole Wayland vs X11 thing. X11 works fine, why crate an alternative? What’s so great about Wayland that can’t be implemented in X11?

          • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            51·
            6 months ago

            The problem is, X11 doesn’t really work fine for modern usage.

            It kinda falls apart with multiple monitors, especially when they require different scaling or refresh rates (or both), HDR support would be incredibly difficult to add, it’s buggy, it’s virtually impossible to maintain or add features. Often fixing a bug breaks things, because the bugs in it are so old that programs have actually been designed around them, or even to utilise them.

            Now imagine trying to adapt X for use with VR/AR displays and all the differences in window management that’ll be required for that.

            It’s a security nightmare. Any app can see what any other app is doing. That means that if you have a nefarious app, it can scrape any information on your screen, without even needing root privileges. Then there’s a load of other vulnerabilities.

            The developers have moved to Wayland because X is structurally unfixable.

            • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
              1·
              6 months ago

              Thank you for the great explanation. I haven’t been keeping tabs on this subject so I’m a bit ignorant about the limitations of X11 advantages of Wayland.

              For me X11 just worked and I was happy with that. I want aware of the security issues either.

        • makingStuffForFun
          22·
          6 months ago

          This is exactly the problem I meant. Thank you for such a detailed overview of the issue. Most apps won’t provide for it, and as you described why technically, it will mean the end of accessibility as a system whole.